The Truth about America

[theslug]

Entire movie 2 hours:

http://zeitgeistmovie.com/

 

Easier consumption:

 

Religion:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=KeZB2EsPqGE

 

9/11 (skip imo):

 

Federal Reserve:

 

The religion one is pretty cool and the federal reserve portion is quite insane and I was quite unaware of some of that stuff. The crazy stuff is extra crazy but still I'm really a sucker for these kinds of things.

[taks]

i don't doubt many of the connections made in the religion pieces. religion was originally designed to explain the inexplicable. interesting nonetheless. too bad none of us will be around when the age of aquarius arrives (this is the dawning of the age of aquarius, the age of aquarius...). i would love to see what the new religion will be then, and whether or not its fundamental principles are already being formed (e.g. who is the savior, who are the disciples, etc.).

 

i think his thoughts on the banking, while seeded with a grain of truth, are a bit more of a stretch, however. i certainly do not like the federal reserve as it exists, though primarily because it is a privately owned entity that controls the US monetary system. i can't imagine how that has ever stood up to constitutional scrutiny, unless such a challenge has never really been offered. in any event, changing it now could be as bad, or worse, than letting it go on unimpeded. given that populations will inevitably increase continuously, some form of interest (inflation) is required to increase the pool of money available to the people. this is offset by the fact that "goods" also increase, i.e. there's more stuff to be owned. certainly there is a limit to the amount of resources available, the amount of goods that may be produced from said resources, as well as the population of the planet. i don't think the current system is set up to be able to deal with any of these limits, however. i suppose at some point we (or our descendants) will ultimately find out the answer, for better or worse.

 

i didn't really pay much attention to the other segments of the movie. i did note the "driver shot kennedy" piece with a chuckle.

 

taks

[Musopticon?]

Entire movie 2 hours:

http://zeitgeistmovie.com/

imo skip

 

 

I watched the first 15 minutes and then watched some parts. Seemed like a smathering of mind**** seasoned with a hearty amount of anti-Americanism and complete with the good old "lol, jesus didn't exist"-hoobla. Well, maybe I'm not part of intended demographic.

 

Then again, I doubt that video is the best place to look for eye-opening experiences for anyone.

Edited December 31, 2007 by Musopticon?

[WITHTEETH]

i don't doubt many of the connections made in the religion pieces. religion was originally designed to explain the inexplicable. interesting nonetheless. too bad none of us will be around when the age of aquarius arrives (this is the dawning of the age of aquarius, the age of aquarius...). i would love to see what the new religion will be then, and whether or not its fundamental principles are already being formed (e.g. who is the savior, who are the disciples, etc.).

taks

Never heard of the Age of Aquarius. But generally all Major religions happened during the Axial Age. Or atleast thats the train of thought he was going after when he dubbed it.

[WITHTEETH]

Yes the US has major problems. Its depressing to read the news most of the time. But Ill take reality over some fairyland, and make the best of it.

[taks]

Never heard of the Age of Aquarius.

i quoted the lyrics to the song above... "this is the dawning of the age of aquarius..." which is taken from the song "aquarius/let the sunshine in" by the fifth dimension, which was #1 on billboard's hot 100 for 6 weeks in 1969. the song refers to the fact that we are about to enter the "age of aquarius" astrologically (though it will be several hundred years before we are fully in aquarius).

 

taks

[Humodour]

The US - now 97% freedom free!

[Enoch]

i certainly do not like the federal reserve as it exists, though primarily because it is a privately owned entity that controls the US monetary system. i can't imagine how that has ever stood up to constitutional scrutiny, unless such a challenge has never really been offered.

 

I think that there was a case sometime in the '10s or '20s that upheld the constitutionality of the Federal Reserve Act, but a quick search turns up nothing but tinfoil-hatter sites. In any case, the constitutional analysis isn't hard to do-- Congress has the power to coin money, regulate its value, and to regulate interstate commerce. (Prior cases had already upheld that the federal government could issue paper money, with or without backing in specie.) To insulate monetary policy from political influence, the FR Act simply delegated some of this power to the FR Board. The resulting entity, despite private ownership, must conduct its affairs within the confines of the Act, and, if the American people perceive any tyranny in it's operation, it would only take a simple act of Congress to limit or remove such power. I can't think of any other constitutional doctrine that would prevent the Congress from using a private group in such a manner.

 

 

EDIT: Well, I suppose you could invoke the non-delegation doctrine. This theory, which courts haven't given any credence to for almost a century, holds that Congress' legislative power is exclusive and cannot be extended to any administrative agency or other recipient of delegated power. A wide-scale enactment of non-delegation doctrine would destroy most of what the federal government does, and the only people who want it back desire it mostly for that purpose.

Edited January 1, 2008 by Enoch

[Meshugger]

Having a federal reserve(private) is a silly idea by itself IMO. But those documentaries are filled with huge holes and jumps to conclusions that could easily be anything limited by one owns imagination.

[taks]

To insulate monetary policy from political influence, the FR Act simply delegated some of this power to the FR Board.

 

....

 

EDIT: Well, I suppose you could invoke the non-delegation doctrine. This theory, which courts haven't given any credence to for almost a century, holds that Congress' legislative power is exclusive and cannot be extended to any administrative agency or other recipient of delegated power. A wide-scale enactment of non-delegation doctrine would destroy most of what the federal government does, and the only people who want it back desire it mostly for that purpose.

which is sort of the point i was getting at. true a widespread enactment would be impossible, but enactment in this one area would not. i understand the notion of eliminating monetary policy from political influence, but that's easy enough to avoid with a government bureaucracy anyway. also, "private" wouldn't be nearly as bad if all the "owners" of the reserve were purely US citizens. they are not as far as i know (hard to find out specifics with all the tin-foil sites out there), so now you end up with a situation in which US political influence is avoided, but a lack foreign influence cannot be guaranteed.

 

taks

[taks]

But those documentaries are filled with huge holes and jumps to conclusions that could easily be anything limited by one owns imagination.

yes, they are. they take coincidental relationships that are, at best, tenuous, then extend them to full cause-effect without much justification. that's a standard "conspiracy theory" tactic. the only reason i gave any worth to the religion aspect is because of my already hardened notions on where it came from to begin with. even with that, plenty of what was said is questionable at best.

 

taks

[Walsingham]

Tinfoil hatters are always good for a laugh. Good link, Sluggo.

[Tale]

Is this truth convenient? I'm only interested in those kind.

[Shryke]

Tinfoil hatters are always good for a laugh. Good link, Sluggo.

 

why sir, i am positively insulted!

 

i think it makes me look rather snappy. tis a fashion statement to be proud of!

 

you're just jealous because you can't pull it off as well as me

[thepixiesrock]

Everything that has transpired has done so according to my design. Your friends, up there on the sanctuary moon, are walking into a trap, as is your Rebel fleet. It was *I* who allowed the Alliance to know the location of the shield generator. It is quite safe from your pitiful little band. An entire legion of my best troops awaits them. Oh, I'm afraid the deflector shield will be quite operational when your friends arrive.

 

 

Now witness the firepower of this fully ARMED and OPERATIONAL battle station!

[Musopticon?]

*ewoks attack, plan fails*

[Shryke]

defeated by teddy bears

 

the might and power of the Empire defeated by... teddy bears...

 

now i remember why Return of the Jedi is my least favourite movie

[thepixiesrock]

The point was that the truth is relatively convenient and incovenient. To the Empire, it was convenient, to the Rebels, it wasn't.

[Krookie]

It's over Commander! The rebels have been routed and they're fleeing into the woods. We need reinforcements to continue the pursuit!

Edited January 2, 2008 by Krookie

[Tale]

The point was that the truth is relatively convenient and incovenient. To the Empire, it was convenient, to the Rebels, it wasn't.

That doesn't sound very convenient at all!

[WILL THE ALMIGHTY]

The religion one was very interesting... I was expecting something along the lines of "Jesus/God isn't real and here's why" but I was surprised to learn something. On youtube. On the internet.

 

EDIT: The 9/11 vids are really disturbing... for me anyways. Especially the building that collapses for no reason.

 

EDIT:

Edited January 2, 2008 by WILL THE ALMIGHTY