The Witcher Spoilers

[Tale]

So, to those who've finished the game, it should be blatantly obvious that the Grand Master, Jacques de Aldersburg, is in actuality the little boy Alvin. Apparently this isn't quite so obvious if you chose Shani as a romantic interest as Shani won't mention that Alvin can time travel. There's even some argument on the official forums against this position, but it seems limited and I won't give it any credit.

 

I'm hoping, for those who have finished, we can explore how he changed based upon on our decisions. I notice that we never see or get any detail about him until Chapter 5 starts. Does his appearance change? In my game, he dressed up in full armor. I presume this is because I encouraged Alvin to become a knight. What happens if you encourage him to become a Witcher? Another question I ask is what happens if you don't tell him to stop playing "Kill the elf?" Does he justify the Order's genocide as more than simply a means to an end? The game supposedly touched on racism, but for my game, the racism seemed the traditionally immature facet of racism being the result of manipulation of a higher power, as opposed to it being the result of culture clash or competition for limited resources. But perhaps siding with the racist view might actually present a more mature understanding of racism from the Aldersburg.

Edited December 18, 2007 by Tale

[jaguars4ever]

Totally sweet and awesome story. Definitely novel grade, and on par (and some might say better) than MotB's story. Though less epic, it probably was better than ME's story too. I'd definitely place all 3 of these games in the 85-95 region, so this year's Q4 was a real treat.

 

Yeah, Alvin's/GM's views are dynamic depending on what you feed him. "They're just fighting for their freedom"/"They're arrogance won't acceptance their decline" etc are essentially used against you when GM sucks you into the ice-age. It's freakin' awesome. I also love the fact that EVERYONE (perhaps barring Shani) is morally ambiguous in this game. But it kind of makes me feel sorry for Alvin/GM as he was right about the Age of Sword and Axe, and that he was not unduly reprehensible (barring the ends justifying the means).

 

In my game I choose to stave off the incarnation of Death, and handle Alvin myself. "That sword is used for monsters". Best last words ever.

 

Also: How awesome was the FMV outro? Was that a kickassery cliffhanger or what?

[SteveThaiBinh]

I just finished Chapter 1. I'm quite pleased -

I don't think I've left a region so utterly devastated since Ultima VII: Serpent Isle.

 

The fight with

The Beast

drove me nuts though - it kept crashing as soon as I'd won.

[jaguars4ever]

I just finished Chapter 1. I'm quite pleased -

I don't think I've left a region so utterly devastated since Ultima VII: Serpent Isle.

 

The fight with

The Beast

drove me nuts though - it kept crashing as soon as I'd won.

Skit.

 

If you're still in chapter one then you really shouldn't be here.

 

Seriously.

[SteveThaiBinh]

I scrolled fast. But I'll bear that in mind.

[jaguars4ever]

That's fine then, but whatever you do don't look up.

[SteveThaiBinh]

I just finished, and am happy. I don't think I could write a considered opinion of the game just yet, as it would likely be very gushy and incoherent, but this was the best surprise of the year. MotB was excellent, but not a surprise because we knew Obsidian had it in them, but The Witcher... :)

 

So,

So, to those who've finished the game, it should be blatantly obvious that the Grand Master, Jacques de Aldersburg, is in actuality the little boy Alvin.

I don't think it's signposted so clearly as to leave no room for doubt, and absolute certainty doesn't seem to have a place in Witcherland. It does seem likely, though. For Jacques' general appearance and clothing, I don't know - I'm about to start a new playthrough and will deliberately choose alternative answers to see if it makes a difference. If I play as a pro-human racist and teach Alvin that, and then find the big boss spouting the same opinions back at me in the final battle, then this game will be beyond awesome.

 

Jacques' racism at least is very much based on competition from resources, and I always got the feeling that the racism was presented as habit, the continuation of long-standing grievances whose origin no-one can quite remember. That's an aspect of real-life racism/tribalism, though you're right that other factors play a part. Nevertheless, doesn't it goes deeper into the subject than most video games? Which other games have handled racism? Ultima VII springs to mind. What else?

[jaguars4ever]

Ultima VII springs to mind. What else?

ME tangentially touches about the issue, but in no where the same depth as The Witcher.

[Tale]

So, to those who've finished the game, it should be blatantly obvious that the Grand Master, Jacques de Aldersburg, is in actuality the little boy Alvin.

I don't think it's signposted so clearly as to leave no room for doubt,

I see that you chose Shani. Do I need to make a list?

[SteveThaiBinh]

Actually I chose Triss (as carer for Alvin, I assume you mean). Make a list if you wish.

[Tale]

Actually I chose Triss (as carer for Alvin, I assume you mean). Make a list if you wish.

 

- Alvin can time travel

- Both are a source.

- They both have a Dimeritium amulet. Aldersburg's is familiar, but older.

- They both are plagued by visions of the same thing.

- Aldersburg regurgitates the things you told Alvin. "You always said..."

- Aldersburg claims he owed you the very first time you meet him.

- You never see Aldersburg until after Alvin has disappeared.

- Alvin plays a game of "kill the elf" with his friends. He gets to play the Grand Master. And he always wins.

 

Some things are less obvious. Such as Aldursburg's opinions changing based upon dialogue. If you encouraged Alvin to become a Witcher, you find out Aldersburg was creating the mutants to be new perfected Witchers.

 

Mostly I think it is quite clearly signposted once the player accepts two things. 1) Alvin can time travel. 2) Blonde children aren't always blonde when they're older. These are the two things people miss the most. However, once Aldersburg's amulet is so prominently displayed at the end, it's an obvious tell in case they missed all the other clues.

Edited December 27, 2007 by Tale

[SteveThaiBinh]

Having played the game through a second time, I tend to agree with you that it's more clearly signposted than I noticed my first time. For me, the thing that stood out most was the way he throws Geralt's old advice back in his face. I also noticed this time that if you tell Alvin he'll get a dog, he gets a dog in Murky Waters (he didn't my first time through) - this I think warns you to pay attention to what you say to Alvin and expect it to be relevant later on.

[Istima Loke]

So I finished the game and I have to ask. What do people find so good about the story? The only thing that I really liked (talking about the main quest) was the "Alvin being the Grand Master" touch. All else seemed quite dull and dragged way farther than it should have. The story was revealed in chapter 5 (partially again) and then in the epilogue. Maybe they should have made it smaller and more focused. Or maybe I'm not into political intrigue stories...

 

I think it also lacked from how events followed one another. Most of the time it felt like I was doing a quest just to activate the next irrelevant quest. There are far too many coincidences which made the flow of the story look artificial. Examples are: a great deal of the second chapter where you search for clues and the forth where you try to bring harmony between the water people and the village.

 

And I didn't like the "lesser of two evils" and how racism was handled. I would describe "forced" the first and "superficial" the latter for the lack of better words.

[Meshugger]

I finished ot last week. I have already praised the game for almost everything, so i will do the 'bad' parts instead.

 

- The story by itself wasn't spectacular, but it manages to deliver at times (Way better than Mass Effect).

- Sometimes animations and dialogue seems to be out-of-place.

- The general productionvalues aren't of Bioware standard (on the other hand, which RPG has?).

 

It shined on every other part, IMO.

 

P.S. C&C and "lesser of two evils" was forced? I know that it is possible to play as neutral, no matter what Yavinn or Siefried says. I let them bleed each other out in the end instead. Few RPG's do this.

[Istima Loke]

...

 

P.S. C&C and "lesser of two evils" was forced? I know that it is possible to play as neutral, no matter what Yavinn or Siefried says. I let them bleed each other out in the end instead. Few RPG's do this.

 

I mean, even though it gave the option of neutrality, they forced you decisions that look evil when easy and obviously better solutions (including but not limited to conversation skills which don't exist) appeared. For example I think that some of the elven/dwarven and order of the flaming rose bloodshed or the slaughter/witch kill in the first chapter could be easily avoided. So when in the end the spirit of what's-his-name tells me that I took part in manslaughter and let people die, I feel cheated by the game.

 

Generally these "lesser of two evil" situations (speaking out of my gaming both in PC and PnP experience) are very hard to create without making the player feel limited by the GM rather than feeling stretched by the in-game situation.

 

The only "problem" I had with C&C was those cut scenes; these felt (at times) rather silly. But other than that C&C in the game was definitely good.

 

Also I have to say that the world/atmosphere of the game was great. I remember when I entered the city for the first time, seeing the architecture of buildings and streets. It's absolutely beautiful and it really dragged me into the Witcher universe.

Edited January 8, 2008 by Istima Loke

[Tale]

I think you have a slightly unreasonable expectation. It's not really "forced" for a town to whip of a religious fervor and lynch someone. It's far more silly to have one guy who's a stranger to the town talk them out of it. You can't expect one man to eliminate racial tensions.

 

Resolutions where a player comes along and says "can't we all get along" and the people live happily ever after are almost always drastically more forced. People don't work that way. Hatred doesn't work that way. Ignorance doesn't work that way. To make it work that way, you have to force it.

Edited January 8, 2008 by Tale

[Istima Loke]

I was not thinking about a happy resolution. He is a witcher. He is a man that single-handedly destroyed a salamandra hideout in the village, who is not reluctant to kill for money. He scared the priest away. What made the villagers think that they could possibly kill him or the witch? Or did they valued the death of a witch more than their lives? Also he could just take the witch and ran away.

 

Everyone dying is the same with living happily ever after. It's a far fetched outcome. The happy one is used to comfort people the sad one exists to shock. A more in between resolution to the situation like the witcher leaving and then the villagers killing the witch or just taking the witch (and possibly Alvin) and leaving the village is the more realistic (I think) resolution.

Edited January 8, 2008 by Istima Loke

[Meshugger]

Oh, i forgot one thing that nagged me about the ending: I never got to see the old gang o' Witchers after the prologue. Maybe i had too high hopes on meeting them again and defending a fortress (or attack it ), or some sort meeting, where there would've been some time for reflection of everything that's happened.

 

As an example, there were several times in the journal that went in the vein of "...when i meet them again...", such as Berengar's quest, indicating that there would be a gathering in the near future. Maybe they forgot all about when they realized that they had to release it.

[~Di]

I'm still wandering around CH 1 on the Outskirts. I've heard that one can purchase storage space at the Inns, but I've followed all the dialogue with the Innkeeper and he's never offered me storage. The only thing I haven't done is purchased a room. Is there a quest or something that I must complete to get the storage option?

 

Oh, and is there a way I can use Aard to open locked doors around the village? For some reason I cannot seem to figure out how...

Edited March 23, 2008 by ~Di

[Pop]

Storage is a "button" ala showing a signet ring or participating in a drinking game. You might be talking to the wrong person. I don't remember if the bartender in the first inn is also the storage dude.

[Musopticon?]

Locked doors sadly stay locked, until certain story requirements are met or you get a key(basically the same thing).

 

As for storage space, the bartender should have a dialogue branch where you can ask for item storage. I think you had to smooth talk a bit first. Sorry, I can't remember exactly, the horrible framerate of the first chapter doesn't exactly encourage me to restart just yet.

[Cantousent]

I've only read the first few and last few posts, but there's one good thing about being spoiled, Jags, I'm greatly intrigued and will now likely buy the Witcher.

[Musopticon?]

Yo, Eldar: You better have a tough machine if you want it to both look good and run well.

 

Once you have, ask around here and we'll link you to a dialogue enhancement mod.

[Cantousent]

I've got a pretty good rig right now. Link away.

[Xard]

Why don't you guys just wait for enhances edition/patch?

 

You'll get

 

1. better dialogue

2. corresponding VO

 

both, not just 1.