M games that would have been better rated AO

[Calax]

Playing mass effect got me thinking. Wouldn't some games benefit from being able to let themselves be rated AO rather than M if the market would allow AO to be sold?

 

Mass Effect got me thinking this because theres an... :ahem: gentlemens club... that you visit in one of the first locations. at least thats how it's described. it's really just a strip joint with fully clothed strippers. Also theres the ever infamous sex scene and, you get the point. I also know that devs (well some of em) would jump a the chance to have a minimal amount of censoring on their work so that it can become a profitable venture. Elder Scrolls would probably benefit alot from an AO ability, as would Assassins Creed, God of War (good freaking lord those should have been rated AO), and don't forget bloodlines.

 

I'm not trying to suggest that E-Boobies for everyone is a good thing, but when done tastefully (like God of War's) it can REALLY add to the atmosphere. IO mean a Strip joint should have at least topless girls strutting around or why call it a strip joint?

 

:sigh: I guess I'm just venting that wallyworld (aka wallmart) and my own corp don't sell AO's so the devs don't get to see how a AO "lite" (the only ones are the market now are pretty much interactive porn) would do on the market. after all "Sex Sells"

[Hell Kitty]

So AO equals topless women? Well, I guess teenage boys would benefit.

[Calax]

...

 

 

eh with the way the rating system is right now I think topless women is about the only thing that could get a game rated AO. and even then Sony was able to get God of War pushed into the M catagory.

 

I'm not trying to say that only nudity would be added, but when you look at what gets M rated (gta, God of War, Gears of War...) sometimes I think that the only way to get rated AO is to have a topless person or three in the game.

 

I'm guessing that were AO games marketable you'd find those three plus bloodlines would instantly be AO material albeit they would be more over the top.

[Tale]

AO should be marketable. In a world where even Wal-Mart readily sells unrated movies, there's no reason for it to not be.

[Hell Kitty]

Let me get this straight - you're saying the only way for a developer to secure an AO rating would be to include topless women, but once they have that rating they would be free to include actual adult themes and material? That wouldn't make any sense, as I assume ratings are given at the end of development. And if those other adult themes and materials were enough for the AO rating, why the need to throw in nudity, and the type of stuff that appeals primarily to teenage boys?

 

In Silent Hill 2, one of the characters has been sexually molested by her father, but as far as I remember, it's never explicitly mentioned, instead it's left up to the player to interpret the information they have. Is it necessary to be more obvious about what happened, possibly getting a higher rating? Can a developer not tell a mature story if they are limited to the M rating?

 

Issues that could get a game an AO rating that fall under the category of "sex" include things like rape and molestation, but they certainly aren't "sex sells" type stuff. Seems to me you're focused more on T&A than anything else.

 

This reminds me of an interview with Mel Brooks (at least I think thats who it was) where he said that swearing is unnecessary in films, because no one ever thinks "that movie would have been so much better if the characters swore".

 

So I don't think there are any M games that would be better if they had a AO rating.

Edited December 2, 2007 by Hell Kitty

[Bokishi]

The gentlemen's club in ME was nothing, I didn't see the sex scene yet however

[Calax]

Let me get this straight - you're saying the only way for a developer to secure an AO rating would be to include topless women, but once they have that rating they would be free to include actual adult themes and material? That wouldn't make any sense, as I assume ratings are given at the end of development. And if those other adult themes and materials were enough for the AO rating, why the need to throw in nudity, and the type of stuff that appeals primarily to teenage boys?

 

In Silent Hill 2, one of the characters has been sexually molested by her father, but as far as I remember, it's never explicitly mentioned, instead it's left up to the player to interpret the information they have. Is it necessary to be more obvious about what happened, possibly getting a higher rating? Can a developer not tell a mature story if they are limited to the M rating?

 

Issues that could get a game an AO rating that fall under the category of "sex" include things like rape and molestation, but they certainly aren't "sex sells" type stuff. Seems to me you're focused more on T&A than anything else.

 

This reminds me of an interview with Mel Brooks (at least I think thats who it was) where he said that swearing is unnecessary in films, because no one ever thinks "that movie would have been so much better if the characters swore".

 

So I don't think there are any M games that would be better if they had a AO rating.

That isn't what I'm saying. Its hard for me to put into words what I'm thinking but, ultimately what I'm trying to say is that we shouldn't make AO into a pariah of the rating system. Admittedly what I pointed out are the most... visible reasons that a game would be rated ao (I haven't played silent hill 2). I'm not trying to sound like the pimply faced teenager who's got problems talking to women. And I also to a degree object to the fact god of war is not an AO title. It's a fantastic game but it's way over the top in terms of gore and it's the only game I can think of that actually has honest to god nudity in it.

 

 

The gentlemen's club in ME was nothing, I didn't see the sex scene yet however

the scene with Liara is pretty much a montage of silhouetted shots of a nude asari with a fully clothed PC. and the whole thing with the "gentlemans club" was kinda the point. it was a dance club without a dance floor. then a character mentioned strippers and my brain clicked.

Edited December 2, 2007 by Calax

[Gorth]

Admittedly what I pointed out are the most... visible reasons that a game would be rated ao (I haven't played silent hill 2). I'm not trying to sound like the pimply faced teenager who's got problems talking to women. And I also to a degree object to the fact god of war is not an AO title. It's a fantastic game but it's way over the top in terms of gore and it's the only game I can think of that actually has honest to god nudity in it.

I don't mind "rating" systems as such, but they sure are a bit on the hypocritical side when it comes to what they terms what. For me, realistic violence and certain themes would be a much stronger reason to make them less accessible to younger audiences than a pair of E-Boobies ®. If they would just stick to actually writing on the box what is in it rather than trying to rate it and then leave it at that (i.e. contains nudity, realistic violence, profanity, politics, animal abuse etc.).

 

I had a look at The Witcher down at the store yesterday, much tempted to buy it. But since I couldn't figure out from the box whether it was the censored or uncensored version, it stayed on the shelf. Life could be much easier :sad:

[Pop]

I can't think of any game that would be markedly improved by a step up from M to AO. The gulf between the ratings isn't nearly as large as the gulf between T and M. AO is just a "more hardcore" M, of course. I don't think Mass Effect would have been greatly raised in esteem by the presence of sky blue juggs.

 

Hell, most of the time, AO content can be outright distracting. During the ME sex scenes I was thinking "Really, Bioware? This is what you really want your games to be remembered for?" I don't consider myself to be a conservative gamer in any sense of the word, I'm not squeamish about sex in games (although I do find it ridiculous for the most part) and I'm not usually one to say what games should or should not be, but I think I get where Bioware was coming from, and I still think that games ought to be more developed and accepted as an art form before we start getting that serious. We don't want to put the cart before the horse. At this point sexual content looks more juvenile than progressive.

[WILL THE ALMIGHTY]

At this point sexual content looks more juvenile than progressive.

 

Exactly what I was thinking. First time I saw the lesbian sex scene I was suddenly less confident about Mass Effect... not to mention it was the most ridiculous love scene ever, since nothing really indicated they were going to have sex...

[Nick_i_am]

The fact that the fish chick in Giants: Citizen Kabuto was 'covered up' in the US release of the game made me laugh.

[Volourn]

ME's 'sex scenes' are harmless. There are more importabt reasons for it to get a M rating though even if IK feel it could ahve been rated T.

[Calax]

I can't think of any game that would be markedly improved by a step up from M to AO.

I forgot to add Indigo Prophesy.

[Tale]

I can't think of any game that would be markedly improved by a step up from M to AO.

I forgot to add Indigo Prophesy.

1) What was cut out of that game at the request of Atari was no marked improvement.

2) The latter portion of the game just being ridiculously silly would have been the same.

[Calax]

I can't think of any game that would be markedly improved by a step up from M to AO.

I forgot to add Indigo Prophesy.

1) What was cut out of that game at the request of Atari was no marked improvement.

2) The latter portion of the game just being ridiculously silly would have been the same.

true, but i remember at least one person on this forum grumbling that they should have bought the import version rather than the US version because a few of the scenes would make more sense. Hence I included it.

[Meshugger]

Yes.

 

IIRC, the latest research showed that the average gamer was a 33 year old with an average income, well doesn't that sound like the Joe regular to you? Joe regular probably has/had sex with numerous of partners for different reasons, maybe he or she is already a parent? And here we have adults playing games where the content is designed to appeal to 14-17 year olds, which can be really frustrating. Violence and gore is pretty good to go, but games describing relationships that adults can relate to are a big no-no. But that's just the tip of the ice-berg, mature themes at general are currently in the backseat, without the notion of sex withstanding.

 

Give us more than the puberty love, the chosen one must save the princess-scenarios. At least The Witcher and MotB is pushing in the right direction, but that's just in the RPG-scene. What about fps beside of Max Payne and so on.

 

The movie industry and pop-culture in general suffers from the same issues. A good example is Aliens vs. Predator, PG-13? come on....

Edited December 3, 2007 by Meshugger

[Pop]

AvP's sole purpose was to make boatloads of cash (I'm not sure if it succeeded, I'm sure it was at least moderately successful) and the best way to achieve that wass by increasing attendance at showings, and the best way to do that wass to make sure that nobody, least of the young consumers far removed from critical thinking and oblivious to obviously low quality, could be turned away at the door. Hence, PG-13 rating. See also - Live Free or Die Hard, a PG-13 movie in a tired R franchise.

 

Games seem to run the exact opposite way. If you want to go for the big bucks, you go for the M rating, unless you're making a platformer. I can't remember the last time I played a really well-done T-rated game that wasn't on a Nintendo system (maybe Burnout 3). Whether this has to do with lack of movie-style sales regulation is not for me to say. Regardless, you're right that the industry is appealing to teenagers, but teenagers find those things which are supposedly meant for adults appealing.

Edited December 3, 2007 by Pop

[Hurlshort]

Actually, I believe if games would cut down on the violence, they'd probably have an easier time introducing nudity and sexual content without getting crucified by the media and politicians.

 

Violence is actually where game show their immaturity. Mature folks don't really have an interest in shooting hundreds of creatures and getting really neat blood spray patterns.

[Tale]

Mature folks don't really have an interest in shooting hundreds of creatures and getting really neat blood spray patterns.

 

Mature folks also aren't really interested in getting a stiffy every time they play a game, either.

[Hurlshort]

Mature folks don't really have an interest in shooting hundreds of creatures and getting really neat blood spray patterns.

 

Mature folks also aren't really interested in getting a stiffy every time they play a game, either.

 

Wow, you are so wrong. How many art films have you watched that didn't revolve around sex? What about Barry White music? And what art gallery doesn't have a few nudes in there? These are all very mature things to see, at least I've been told. They are boring to me, but I'm not mature. Well, Barry White is cool.

[Nick_i_am]

It's a reflection of the society it's made in as much as anything else. Christian based cultures have always had a very stiff attitude to sex, which, when combined with this 'new medium' seems to send people into some kind of mild frenzy. Compare to Japan, which has been putting sex in computer games for years (though they never make it west, obviously).

 

Look at Mass Effect, it has a sex scene less explicit than that in titanic (PG-13) and suddenly this is a 'big thing' that everyone is talking about, rather than just 'the norm', as it's become in film.

 

Another example would be Hot Chocolate. It was a joke more than anything else, and yet look at the reaction.

 

And all this is the reaction from people who simply didn't grow up playing computer games, but who DID grow up watching films.

 

My prediciton is that, give it another generation or two, when the people who grew up on computer games are in the posisions of power, and everything should stabilise a bit.

[Calax]

you mean hot coffee? hot choclate would be the mass effect scene or somthing.

[Pop]

Actually, I believe if games would cut down on the violence, they'd probably have an easier time introducing nudity and sexual content without getting crucified by the media and politicians.

 

Violence is actually where game show their immaturity. Mature folks don't really have an interest in shooting hundreds of creatures and getting really neat blood spray patterns.

Come over to the States for awhile.

 

It's a reflection of the society it's made in as much as anything else. Christian based cultures have always had a very stiff attitude to sex, which, when combined with this 'new medium' seems to send people into some kind of mild frenzy. Compare to Japan, which has been putting sex in computer games for years (though they never make it west, obviously).

It's not so much the case that repression is old or endemic to judeo-christian cultures (it's a hell of a lot worse in Sudan than it is here) so much as it's the case that libertinism is new. If that makes any sense.

Edited December 3, 2007 by Pop

[Nick_i_am]

you mean hot coffee? hot choclate would be the mass effect scene or somthing.

 

Erm, yeah, ooops.

[Deadly_Nightshade]

It's a reflection of the society it's made in as much as anything else. Christian based cultures have always had a very stiff attitude to sex, which, when combined with this 'new medium' seems to send people into some kind of mild frenzy.