Bioshock: Here there be spoilers

[Pop]

So what is the consensus?

 

I'm only about halfway through the game or thereabouts, assassinating the artsy Cohen guy's former apprentices. So far I've enjoyed myself, but Bioshock for me has run into the same pitfall that FEAR, that other ambitious shooter, did, though not to the same extent, and that's lack of enemy variety. Aside from the myriad sentry turrets, and 2-4 Big Daddy types, there are 5 different kinds of splicer: the thug, the gunman, the grenadier, the teleporter, and the hook people. I would have found it so much more creepy and exciting had they followed the designs of the concept art, in which as the game goes on, the splicers change themselves so much that they progressively become monsters that could have easily been living out of the Master's lair or your average Id game. I seriously would have found that cool, although I could see how it might be refreshing to some that the enemies all stay recognizably human for the most part.

 

But that's alleviated a little bit by the endless supply of Big Daddies, who are much funner to play around with. If you're playing on a not-hard difficulty, you can mine the things, as they keep respawning. Usually it takes less ammo to kill a Big Daddy than you could buy with the money earned from the Daddy's corpse, which basically allows you to max out most everything constantly.

 

Some have complained that there's no real meaning to the choice given regarding the Little Sisters, and I suppose they have a point, as all sparing the Sisters seems to do is delay the reception of half your Adam until you've saved a certain number of them (I think Tenenbaum gave me the Adam after 4 saved Sisters, which was well through the game, as I had been killing most of them) There is one added perk in the "Charm Big Daddy" plasmid, which to my knowledge you can't receive if you kill the Sisters. Like I said, I started off killing the first 7 or so Sisters and saving a few after it became clear through the audio diaries that Tenenbaum was not a nazi (at some point in development, she was supposed to be Mengele's daughter) but a holocaust survivor with guilt issues. So I think I've pulled off the Sister balancing act fairly well.

 

The game wouldn't be as good as it is without the voice acting, which is generally awesome. If the diaries were all text, the game would fail miserably. The voices are what make the characters, and I've found that it's the case with a lot of games. The hologram logs in KOTOR2, for instance, were inherently more interesting than text-only datapads, most of the time. The inclusion of the audio diaries elevates Bioshock above standard objective-based shooting into narrative-based shooting. Although I will say, since Irrational never uses actual character interaction, I usually expect that any sane NPC is going to die and their hopes will collapse around them, and I'm always right. In that, there's very little suspense in Bioshock. Since I figured Atlas was going to be around until the end of the game, and since inter-character interaction isn't how Bioshock works its magic at all, I expected his family would end up being broken apart or killed, and I was right (although there wasn't any response from the submarine, so I'm a little suspicious that Irrational might pull a surprise happy deus ex machina ending, if they don't kill Atlas)

 

Unfortunately, as good as this game is, and it's pretty damned good, it's not going to be able to occupy all of the time between now and the next big game's release (I don't like Halo) so it's back to Fallout, I guess.

[Zoma]

If you have yet to play System Shock 2, by all means get your hands on the game. Bioshock is supposedly to be a spiritual successor, which is noticeable:

Similar/identical features

-Vending machines

-Vita chambers

-Weapon upgrades

-Hacking

-Wrench as melee weapon

-Feats

-Using voice over logs to progress the story of the game

-Plasmids works similar to SS2's Telekinesis powers

-Booze, cigarettes and chips

-ADAM is basically Cyber modules

-Researching by taking photo in Bioshock, collecting chemicals and applying on collected enemy parts for System Shock 2 = Bonus damage against specific enemy or knowledge of its weakness.

-Same story premise, in where you find yourself alone and isolated.

 

 

Though at the expense of missing features that may make Bioshock watered down than Systerm Shock 2:

 

Missing features

-Lack of distinctive 'classes'

-No inventory system (Tetris system)

-No equippable armor

-Lack of learning skill system for weapons

-No weapon maintainence (Which is a good thing)

-More distinctive enemies though its of small varieties. (Monkies, how could they forget to put monkies in Bioshock?)

 

So if you prefer depth and futuristic sci-fi setting, but at the risk of some frustration due to some design flaws in System Shock 2 (Weapon maintanence is a pain, ammunition is very rare), give it a try. Personally, I prefer System Shock 2's gameplay and suspense while I very much prefer Bioshock's presentation and production quality.

 

 

Greatest game of all time in Gamespot for System Shock 2:

http://www.gamespot.com/features/6130956/index.html

Edited August 22, 2007 by Zoma

[Shadowstrider]

I only have three things to say about Bioshock.

 

1) Little girls are not creepy or scary. Even when they want to suck out people's spinal nectar they aren't scary. I wish games and movies would stop using little girls to try and freak us out.

2) I'm crazy! I'm gonna stab you... UNDER WATER!

3) Cool setting, I just think they could have done a lot more with it.

 

System Shock wins.

[Tale]

The little girls aren't meant to be scary. They don't attack you. They're intended to be a slight moral dilemma in that you get fabulous rewards for attacking them.

[Shadowstrider]

No... they're meant to be creepy little girls with syringes who "harvest" you when you die. Creepy concept cheapened by the little girl route.

 

"Moral dilemma" is completely secondary to the fact that they're basically little girl vampires... UNDER WATER.

[Tale]

Little girl vampires are actually intended to be threats to players. Little Sisters are not. They establish this very early on in the game. The first one you encounter leaves you alone when she realizes you aren't dead.

 

They are meant to be a little creepy however, simply by the route of little girls who are scavengers.

Edited August 22, 2007 by Tale

[Shadowstrider]

Little girl vampires are actually intended to be threats to players. Little Sisters are not. They establish this very early on in the game. The first one you encounter leaves you alone when she realizes you aren't dead.

 

They are meant to be a little creepy however, simply by the route of little girls dealing with dead bodies.

 

Except, you know, they have made such a big deal about these Big Daddies. The Big Daddy is the threat from the Little Sister. Don't even get me started on the aquarium diving-men silliness.

[Tale]

The big daddies are the protectors of the little sisters. They don't threaten you until you threaten the Little Sister.

 

Under water is the outer space of the retro, man.

 

I'd like to hear your complaint about the Big Daddy. To me they seem to be a great representation of strength while still keeping the underwater theme. They're very imposing while wearing armor that is recognizeably consistent with the theme, but not cliched or overly traditional.

Edited August 22, 2007 by Tale

[Shadowstrider]

The big daddies are the protectors of the little sisters. They don't threaten you until you threaten the Little Sister.

 

That's the threat. One false move around the wee vampire lasses, and Aquaman tries to gore you with his spinning drill of doom. Then they get to suckle your sweet, sweet nectar.

 

Under water is the outer space of the retro, man.

 

I know. The game reminds me a lot of Sunshine or Event Horizon, both of which degenerated into nothing more than "HEY! Look at me! I'm crazy and I'm gonna kill you! IN SPACE!"

 

I'd like to hear your complaint about the Big Daddy. To me they seem to be a great representation of strength while still keeping the underwater theme. They're very imposing while wearing armor that is recognizeably consistent with the theme, but not cliched or overly traditional.

 

They're made out to be the "cover monster" of the game... the CE even comes with a figurine. What do you do with the featured monster of a game? Not fight it? No, you know damn well you're going to fight those Big Daddies (I did it for the achievements and the lulz!), and that really, really cheapens their "I'm a bad ass faceless monstar! GRRR" mystique. There is no dilemma. You are going to kill Big Daddies by the dozen, if only for the sport of it, which further cheapens their mystique. I also find them terribly repetitive and monotonous. "How do we make them tougher? Give them hore health!"

 

I'd continue ranting, but I have work to do.

[Tale]

So, let me get this straight. Because there are little girls in it, they're automatically vampires. Because the Big Daddies are on the cover, they're automatically cheapened. Or rather are cheapened because that makes you automatically want to kill them all.

 

I have a hard time believing this came out a developer's fingers. The language is just so silly. I'm not even sure I can recognize the genuine distaste that originates it. It reminds me of LOL, HORSEARMOR!

Edited August 22, 2007 by Tale

[Shadowstrider]

I'm going to assume that the language barrier is what prevents you from properly reading my post, and not something else.

 

They're not vampires because they're little girls. They're vampires because they essentially feast on others.

The Big Daddies are not cheapened because they're on the cover. They're cheapened because they're the guardians of this so-called dilemma, but they're also the "big game." It basically encourages you to kill the guardians, rather than respect them.

[Tale]

Deleted because I don't want this to turn into an argument or debate on whether Little Sisters are vampires or not and whether or not Big Daddies are respectable.

Edited August 22, 2007 by Tale

[Pop]

As fun as it is watching Shadowstrider be intimidated by games not involving rhyming elves, dragon amulets or mini-nuke grenade launchers, I'd rather this thread not be derailed. Has anyone beat the game yet?

[Tale]

Medical Wing question:

 

After you get Incinerate you can open up the funeral home area. There's a door with a combination lock. Where do I find the combination?

Try to keep the spoiler answer to a minimum. Area I'll find it in, whether or not it's easy to miss, etc, please.

[Pop]

Look around the coffins for a slip of paper. It's not far from the door.

 

Failing that, hack until you can't hack no more.

[Tale]

I didn't see a thing telling me I could hack the door.

[Pop]

I didn't see a thing telling me I could hack the door.

I'm pretty sure you can hack the rolling combination locks.

 

Do you want me to just tell you what it is? Because it's the same # used for the surveillance trailer outside the Liberty base in Deus Ex, which is how I remember it.

0451.

At least, I believe that's it. It might even be an homage.

[Tale]

That is awesome!

[Musopticon?]

It's also the code for the first lock in SS 2. Well, it + two 0's.

[Pidesco]

I think it was the door code for LGS.

[Bokishi]

This game owns.

[Tale]

5 little sisters rescued. I didn't think it would be done this way. Very excellent.

[Bokishi]

Man I love jumping around and killing fools with the shotty while listening to

The Nutcracker

[Azarkon]

Finished the game, got the good ending (which actually brought some wetness to my eyes, though it may just have been from staring at the screen for too long ). Story and writing were both better than I expected; gameplay was slightly deeper than your average FPS; "role-playing," given how much they hyped it up, was worse than I expected. There is essentially one decision point in the entire game (that matters): whether you avoid, Harvest, or Rescue the Little Sisters - but there is practically little benefit to choosing the former two options except out of cruelty, because the last option actually provides equivalent/better benefits. So being "good" is basically a no-brainer - no real trade-off is involved. Heck, avoidance isn't even "safe" - if you don't fight them, you don't get Adam, which means you don't get cool powers, which means the game becomes very difficult later on... So again, even a self-preservationist would be masochistic to avoid confrontation.

 

As far as graphics, sound, etc. goes the game is top-notch. I've little to complain about in these areas and would probably recommend the game to anyone who isn't too put off by what I mentioned above - it's an excellent one-time experience, particularly if you value production values and presentation.

[Pop]

Man, that endgame screams either "rushed" or "out of good ideas". That boss fight was the easiest boss fight I've ever played, and I've played Mortal Kombat. All you have to do to beat Goro is kick-jump him repeatedly, and voila, perfect victory. Bioshock's boss was easier than that.