Yosuke Yamahata

[Yuusha]

On Agust 10, 1945, the day after the bombing of Nagasaki Yosuke Yamahata, began to photograph the devastation. The city was dead. He walked through the darkened ruins and the dead corpses for hours. By late afternoon, he had taken his final photographs near a first aid station north of the city. In a single day, he had completed the only extensive photographic record of the immediate aftermath of the atomic bombing of either Hiroshima or Nagasaki.

 

 

[Morgoth]

A horrible transgression indeed. But I've seen more powerful pictures that exerted crime on humanity. Just search for WW1 pictures for example...

[Gorgon]

Won't be long now before some American comes along and tells us all what an icredible act of mercy the bombings were, and how many million lives they saved.

[sogi_ya]

"you have to understand how much of an icredible act of mercy the bombings were, and how many million" ..... wait ..... F*** that. it took me three years to forget how a mass grave smelled, and i will never forget how that mother screamed when they told her that her son was in it.

 

 

oooh, america the heros, free iraq, bush is the savior ..... the F**King D**K, i for one am ashamed for my role in the iraq war.

Edited August 4, 2007 by sogi_ya

[Guard Dog]

Yushaa, you my friend are a one-trick-pony.

[Stewdawg24]

Yushaa...It seems to me from reading several threads you've started, or participated in, in which you bring up the use of the A-Bomb is that you fail to recognize that the US was at war with the Japanese. A war that the Japanese brought to our doorstep. Should I bring out pictures of the thousands of dead sailors and soldiers at Pearl Harbor?

 

Don't get me wrong, the events of August 1945 are in no way, shape, or form a high point in American history. Unforunately, the decision to use the bomb was one that was hoisted upon the US by the Japanese. Attempts were made to end the war without the kind of wholesale loss of life that was witnessed those two days. As was mentioned before, anyone who thinks that the Japanese were not prepared to fight to the bitter end need only look at the fact that it took TWO bombs and several days for them to finally surrender.

 

Not to take this way off topic ......but based on your argument in other threads can't we look at the dropping of the bombs as the US and it's people lashing out and venting their hatred of the Japanese goverment's Foreign policy at the time. Let's look at their transgressions prior to August 45.....They invaded China and between 1937-45 killed over 10 million Chinese civilians....wtihout being provoked they attaceked the US at Pearl harbor killing 1500 sailors and soldiers. In the following years of the war, 106,000 sailors and soliders would be wounded, killed , or missing at the hands of the Japanese

Edited August 4, 2007 by Stewdawg24

[Hurlshort]

Oh my God, dropping the A-bomb is totally like the war in Iraq. I mean, it's like exactly the same thing. They could be like twins or something, but really ugly twins that totally kill people with their looks.

[Yuusha]

@Everyone: I started this thread mainly to share these pictures. I have no interest in participating in another debate. I'm just sad for the world.

 

Today is the 5th of August. Tomorrow is Hiroshima day. And on the 9th is Nagasaki.

 

I'm just sad that's all.

[Hurlshort]

@Everyone: I started this thread mainly to share these pictures. I have no interest in participating in another debate. I'm just sad for the world.

 

Today is the 5th of August. Tomorrow is Hiroshima day. And on the 9th is Nagasaki.

 

I'm just sad that's all.

 

Well said. I definitely didn't get the impression Yuusha was baiting by starting this thread. It's a tragedy, for sure, and it's a devastating end to a devastating war. We should always keep it fresh in our minds, so we can be vigilant to prevent it from happening again.

 

Now I do find Gorgon and sogi_ya's reaction to this thread odd.

[Aram]

@Everyone: I started this thread mainly to share these pictures. I have no interest in participating in another debate. I'm just sad for the world.

 

Today is the 5th of August. Tomorrow is Hiroshima day. And on the 9th is Nagasaki.

 

I'm just sad that's all.

 

So should we expect another one of these in December, when it's the 70th anniversery of the Nanjing massacre? How about on the anniversery of every significant loss of life due to war in history? Or are you just going to mourn the ones that involved America?

 

I mean if you're going to highlight every tragic loss of human life in history, that's all fine if the mods will allow you to waste that much forum space. If you're only going to make thread after thread about the examples you gave in a thread called "Why everyone hates America" like they're the only bad things that have ever happened, you're just an idiot.

Edited August 4, 2007 by Aram

[Xard]

Nice pics man

 

Could we get some more to find proof for unthinkable evilness of U.S Goverment? I have never realized before how they have brainswashed me and whole western world! God help me!

[Morgoth]

I hate the word "Western World" even more than "Deutscher Lebensraum".

[sogi_ya]

i hear by start a intergalactic petition that all world conflicts be settled at quake con. supreme world domination is going to be covered at next years unreal convention.

Edited August 4, 2007 by sogi_ya

[Bokishi]

Wow brutal images

[Gorgon]

"

Don't get me wrong, the events of August 1945 are in no way, shape, or form a high point in American history. Unforunately, the decision to use the bomb was one that was hoisted upon the US by the Japanese. Attempts were made to end the war without the kind of wholesale loss of life that was witnessed those two days. As was mentioned before, anyone who thinks that the Japanese were not prepared to fight to the bitter end need only look at the fact that it took TWO bombs and several days for them to finally surrender."

 

The US could have chosen another less densely populated target, but, they wanted effect. They didn't warn them because they wanted to make sure the bombers had a clear path. There were alternatives though that did not necessarily include the invasion of mainland Japan. Two bombs could have been dropped at minor sites. One prominent disident was Eisenhower.

 

Churchil and Trueman had both comitted fully to the motto of 'unconditional surrender', to the point where no other kind of surrender would be considered, even if one had existed that would have shortened the war.

 

This was a time and a war where the lives of civilians meant very little on both sides though, the only thing about this that really irks me is the idea that those bombs saved milions of lives, there is no evidence for it, other than a comparison of casualty rates in the even of an invasion. That is not fact, it's conjecture, and it's a bit too convenient.

[Guard Dog]

"

Don't get me wrong, the events of August 1945 are in no way, shape, or form a high point in American history. Unforunately, the decision to use the bomb was one that was hoisted upon the US by the Japanese. Attempts were made to end the war without the kind of wholesale loss of life that was witnessed those two days. As was mentioned before, anyone who thinks that the Japanese were not prepared to fight to the bitter end need only look at the fact that it took TWO bombs and several days for them to finally surrender."

 

The US could have chosen another less densely populated target, but, they wanted effect. They didn't warn them because they wanted to make sure the bombers had a clear path. There were alternatives though that did not necessarily include the invasion of mainland Japan. Two bombs could have been dropped at minor sites. One prominent disident was Eisenhower.

 

Churchil and Trueman had both comitted fully to the motto of 'unconditional surrender', to the point where no other kind of surrender would be considered, even if one had existed that would have shortened the war.

 

This was a time and a war where the lives of civilians meant very little on both sides though, the only thing about this that really irks me is the idea that those bombs saved milions of lives, there is no evidence for it, other than a comparison of casualty rates in the even of an invasion. That is not fact, it's conjecture, and it's a bit too convenient.

 

Two points you should consider Gorgon. The original target on Aug 6 was Yokohama, much less populated. The target there was the Misubishi factories where the Zeros and Bettys were made. Hiroshima was chosen for it's fuel dumps.

 

The other thing to consider is the USCINCPAC did everything to let the Japanese know Nagasaki was next. They announced it on Radio Saipan and even dropped leaflets telling the citizens to evacuate. Most did not because the Japanese high command would not let them. Plus, as I understand it, they did a good job of suppressing the news of the full extent of damage to Hiroshima. On top of that, Truman gave a "surrender or else" ultimatum on Aug 3, another on Aug 7, and of course the above mentioned radio/leaflet messages.

 

As for casualties resulting from an invasion of the Japanese home islands. Come on. You are not dumb and it does not become you to play the part.

 

I will agree with Stew, this was not a highpoint in American history. But I will point out that unlike Germany, the Japanese military was largely intact in 1945. Most of it was on the the home islands. Their naval losses took them out of the fight by 1943 but they still had consideble power. And I would point out that it was also considered by George Marshall that rather than invade they could blockade and try to force the Japanese to capitulate by starving them off. That was rejected the moment it was discovered the Japanese were also working on an atomic weapon.

 

One last thing. if the British had atomic weapons when the Battle of Britan was going on, do you think Churchill would have hesitated to use it? Would Stalin, Tojo, or Hitler?

[Gorgon]

It is commonly represented as an 'either-or' scenario, either the bombs were dropped on two population centers or there would have to be a full scale invasion. The fact is, the Japanese posed no significant threat to anyone in their battered state. Their fleets destroyed and all sigificant holdouts in the Pacific taken.

 

Trueman wanted the troops home before christmas, and here was a much appreciated chance to get the war overwith. The commonly accepted idea that that this final, perhaps unnecessary, act of destruction saved milions is equal parts guesswork and wishful thinking. Yes, the invasion would have been extremely costly on both sides, but we are assuming too much here.

 

 

None of the powers involved in WW2 can be said to be without their own stories of mass killings of civilians, this is all common knowledge, and while the outcome still hung in the balance none would have hesitated to use new super weapons. When the bombs were dropped we were in the closing act, where no question remained who would be the victors. The political message of Hiroshima and Nakasaki was unmistakable though, it brough into existance the worlds first superpower.

Edited August 5, 2007 by Gorgon

[GreasyDogMeat]

I wonder if Yuusha ever feels 'sad' for victims of Japanese POW camps.

 

One of my personal favorite events was hearing a first hand account of a POW, either American or Australian, who was going to the bathroom over an outhouse hole. For the 'fun' of it an officer decided to stab him with a bayonet and force him down into the outhouse where he was heard crying by the other POWs for sometime after.

 

Then of course, the Holocaust and all of it's horrors. How many times would you have to multiply the admittadly awful body count of the two nuclear blasts to get, what was it again... 5 million holocaust deaths? I wonder if Yuusha will feel 'sad' on a Holocaust remembrance day. Then again, maybe Yuusha doesn't even believe the holocaust happened.

 

What's the difference between these horrible events? One of them was motivated to save the lives of the 10s, maybe many many times more, thousands of lives it would have taken to invade the mainland of Japan. Not only American lives, but British and Russian lives.

 

50%... FIFTY PERCENT of the 60+ million lives lost during WWII were CIVILIANS LOST IN BOMBINGS AND GROUND WAR. Did the allies stop bombing Germany? Did Germany stop bombing London? The difference between these bombings? As horrendous as it was... the final bombs got RESULTS. They ended the bloodiest war in history.

 

Those 5 Million Jews... bah, it was probably a lie anyway!. Over 3,500 allied POWs dead, many from starvation and abuse, so what, a bunch of swine westerners... No... the TRUE Atrocity was the atomic bomb, the 180,000 lives lost and damn it all... the end of the war.

 

I'd love to post all the horror images of the holocaust and the POW camps... but I'll refrain because they bring up old hatreds. I'm sure that wasn't Yuusha's intention though... 'look at what those horrible Americans did!'

 

Knee jerk reactions with no thought of the gravity and weight of the decisions and times... just images of the horror of battle to provoke anger and modern hatreds. I don't hate the Germans, I don't hate the Japanese, why should I hate the United States for the nuclear bombs.

 

We sit here and debate the bomb... but can you debate the mistreatment of POWs? Can you debate the Holocaust? I'd love to hear your defense... because you sure the hell couldn't use the 'It saved lives!' argument. Then again... maybe Yuusha could.

[mkreku]

I wonder if Yuusha ever feels 'sad' for victims of Japanese POW camps.

 

One of my personal favorite events was hearing a first hand account of a POW, either American or Australian, who was going to the bathroom over an outhouse hole. For the 'fun' of it an officer decided to stab him with a bayonet and force him down into the outhouse where he was heard crying by the other POWs for sometime after.

 

Then of course, the Holocaust and all of it's horrors. How many times would you have to multiply the admittadly awful body count of the two nuclear blasts to get, what was it again... 5 million holocaust deaths? I wonder if Yuusha will feel 'sad' on a Holocaust remembrance day. Then again, maybe Yuusha doesn't even believe the holocaust happened.

 

What's the difference between these horrible events? One of them was motivated to save the lives of the 10s, maybe many many times more, thousands of lives it would have taken to invade the mainland of Japan. Not only American lives, but British and Russian lives.

 

50%... FIFTY PERCENT of the 60+ million lives lost during WWII were CIVILIANS LOST IN BOMBINGS AND GROUND WAR. Did the allies stop bombing Germany? Did Germany stop bombing London? The difference between these bombings? As horrendous as it was... the final bombs got RESULTS. They ended the bloodiest war in history.

 

Those 5 Million Jews... bah, it was probably a lie anyway!. Over 3,500 allied POWs dead, many from starvation and abuse, so what, a bunch of swine westerners... No... the TRUE Atrocity was the atomic bomb, the 180,000 lives lost and damn it all... the end of the war.

 

I'd love to post all the horror images of the holocaust and the POW camps... but I'll refrain because they bring up old hatreds. I'm sure that wasn't Yuusha's intention though... 'look at what those horrible Americans did!'

 

Knee jerk reactions with no thought of the gravity and weight of the decisions and times... just images of the horror of battle to provoke anger and modern hatreds. I don't hate the Germans, I don't hate the Japanese, why should I hate the United States for the nuclear bombs.

 

We sit here and debate the bomb... but can you debate the mistreatment of POWs? Can you debate the Holocaust? I'd love to hear your defense... because you sure the hell couldn't use the 'It saved lives!' argument. Then again... maybe Yuusha could.

Yuusha brought pictures. You brought words. Guess which felt more likely to be true?

[Gorgon]

We are discussing the nukes because that was the subject, you are wellcome to start a new thread about Dresden, the einsatzgruppen in Eastern Europe, Stalin's massacres, etc. if you want.

Edited August 5, 2007 by Gorgon

[GreasyDogMeat]

If you are into images of horror at its worst then I'm sure you've heard of Google. I've seen enough images of the holocaust and abused POW and I'm not going to make myself anymore depressed looking them up for your bloodlust.

 

Yuusha has his own agenda and slanted view of the world... he is willing to show things for shock value, and aims it in one direction, but he is unwilling to truly think of the event or why it occurred. By all means... discuss... I'm simply disgusted by his tactics and had a little outburst.

Edited August 5, 2007 by GreasyDogMeat

[Gorth]

As for casualties resulting from an invasion of the Japanese home islands. Come on. You are not dumb and it does not become you to play the part.

Nobody says it had to be american casualties though, as the soviets demonstrated during the Manchuria offensive. In the second largest military operation of the war (operation Barbarosse being the largest) from the 9th to 19th of August, the japanese lost nearly 700.000 men (80.000 dead and 594.000 captured). It showed that the japanese in their current shape was in no shape to put up major resistance and given a bit more time, the soviets would have "steamrolled" the rest of japan. Maybe global politics played a part too? The cold war was after all just around the corner.

[Sand]

Japan did some horrible acts in World War 2, so did the Germans, so did the Americans, so did everyone involved. That is the nature of war. That is the nature of human beings. All we can do is learn from the mistakes of the past and do not repeat them. Human is human. Nations, borders, and the like are irrelevant in the end equation.

[Atreides]

Maybe we could ask what the current Japanese think. Not just a few, but many to get a balanced view.

 

Plus I can't wait for more Lucky Star.

Edited August 5, 2007 by Atreides

[Pop]

Maybe we could ask what the current Japanese think. Not just a few, but many to get a balanced view.

The Japanese have a very odd relationship with their recent history. While Germany has been open and honest almost to the point of masochism regarding the events of WWII during the last 70 years, Japan has never really come to terms with its history, in many ways they've outright denied it (a recent example being the matter of mainland "comfort women" sex slaves demanding restitution). An objective view of the war is best found elsewhere.