Kaftan Barlast Posted June 16, 2007 Share Posted June 16, 2007 I thought Id try to play a bit of NWN2 today with the new patch, and all was well except for the fact that I could not find any good haircuts for a female character. So I just thought "Oh shoot! I'll just make my own then" and I swooshed up 3ds Max and modeled a new hair, textured it shabbily, rigged it stiffly to the head and there, I could finally play. Is this taking it too far? I know I didnt like the way the weapons felt in STALKER so I modded them aswell. Im starting to do it more and more, will this end with me spending a year modifying a game with fully animated custom models, expanded storyline, tweaked gameplay etc. just so Ill be able to enjoy it without being annoyed by some tiny detail? Should I just leave my games alone? ( I'll upload the hair thingie later if anyones interested ) DISCLAIMER: Do not take what I write seriously unless it is clearly and in no uncertain terms, declared by me to be meant in a serious and non-humoristic manner. If there is no clear indication, asume the post is written in jest. This notification is meant very seriously and its purpouse is to avoid misunderstandings and the consequences thereof. Furthermore; I can not be held accountable for anything I write on these forums since the idea of taking serious responsability for my unserious actions, is an oxymoron in itself. Important: as the following sentence contains many naughty words I warn you not to read it under any circumstances; botty, knickers, wee, erogenous zone, psychiatrist, clitoris, stockings, bosom, poetry reading, dentist, fellatio and the department of agriculture. "I suppose outright stupidity and complete lack of taste could also be considered points of view. " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Musopticon? Posted June 16, 2007 Share Posted June 16, 2007 (edited) Can you upload it sooner? As for that obsession, I'd expect that everyone who has the ability to correct things, that they see as faults, to do that, especially if one has already done it before. Hell, I'd like to mod lots of things out of some of my favorite games. Like Minsc, for instance. Edited June 16, 2007 by Musopticon? kirottu said: I was raised by polar bears. I had to fight against blood thirsty wolves and rabid penguins to get my food. Those who were too weak to survive were sent to Sweden. It has made me the man I am today. A man who craves furry hentai. So let us go and embrace the rustling smells of unseen worlds Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karka Posted June 16, 2007 Share Posted June 16, 2007 It's not taking it too far for you. You're a game developer afterall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cantousent Posted June 17, 2007 Share Posted June 17, 2007 I'm dead serious, kaftan, I hate the hair in NWN2. I've been playing it today also, mostly switching between the campaign and trying to figure out the toolset. I can't stand the hair. It's not just the female hair. At least some developers get the female hair right. The male hair just sucks. In WoW, I can't have a standard, parted on the side male haircut. Rat bastards. Well, Blizzard is worse, but Obsidian doesn't get it right either. There are short haircuts, but they look like anime or lightly parted in the middle. Most of the haircuts are long. I don't disdain your long locks, Mr. Barlast, but I want the choice of a haircut that is similar to my own. In fact, while the argument that growing long hair was a way of self expression and the devs should grant the option has turned dramatically the other way. I can't express myself in my own fashion because the devs want to have these ridiculous long haircuts (Blizzard) or the unkempt mop top anime style (just about everyone). Fionavar's Holliday Wishes to all members of our online community: Happy Holidays Join the revelry at the Obsidian Plays channel:Obsidian Plays Remembering tarna, Phosphor, Metadigital, and Visceris. Drink mead heartily in the halls of Valhalla, my friends! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pop Posted June 17, 2007 Share Posted June 17, 2007 More variety in regard to character creation in NWN2 would be greatly appreciated. Has anybody fixed those half-elven faces yet? Join me, and we shall make Production Beards a reality! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sand Posted June 17, 2007 Share Posted June 17, 2007 (edited) GIMMIE! More hair styles is always good. More heads would be good as well. More the merrier I say! Edited June 17, 2007 by Sand Murphy's Law of Computer Gaming: The listed minimum specifications written on the box by the publisher are not the minimum specifications of the game set by the developer. @\NightandtheShape/@ - "Because you're a bizzare strange deranged human?" Walsingham- "Sand - always rushing around, stirring up apathy." Joseph Bulock - "Another headache, courtesy of Sand" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metadigital Posted June 17, 2007 Share Posted June 17, 2007 In the words of Bigweld, "See a need, fill a need!" It actually re-affirms your choice of vocation, methinks; the fact that you find objects and means to improve the games you play means that you are actively interested and have a high coefficient of care (aka carefactor). It would be a serious problem if you didn't want to tweak and modify games that you play and implement ideas ... OBSCVRVM PER OBSCVRIVS ET IGNOTVM PER IGNOTIVS OPVS ARTIFICEM PROBAT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dunniteowl Posted June 17, 2007 Share Posted June 17, 2007 No it's not taking it far enough! Modify to your heart's content! I'm now learning to use 3DS Max and wish I could modify things like that all the time. I have more fun designing things than I do playing things. I have had NWN2 since early April and I have probably only gotten a 1/3 of the way through the game, maybe less -- I am currently just getting back from the mission in the hills where you find the emissary from Waterdeep I think it is. In the meantime, I have played with the toolset and have only really been playing around making different terrains of rolling hills, roads, things like that. I am so looking forward to making buildings and other placeable type things. I'm not that good at making people parts and so my hat's off to all those that can. Hair, faces, facial hair, different types of eyes, lips, noses, mouths and jaw lines -- all of these things are lacking, in my opinion. Whatever can be done to make the heads and faces of the NWN2 models look better on the whole, I am for it. One of the things I am pressing the Devs for as a Community Representative is to make more heads with different facial characteristics or to release any new content made for Mask of the Betrayer if possible in an earlier patch. In the meantime, I also encourage anyone who can in the Community to make whatever they can to increase the variety in the game. So, please, by all means, modify all you can and enjoy it to the best of your abilities. regards, dunniteowl ps: If you look at my avatar (yes, it's really me, there) you will see that there was a time when I had my hair also parted on the side and my hair (what's left of it) is fine and thin in the first place -- never saw that modeled, plus I also have gone from close cropped, to business style, long haired, ponytailed freak and I have gone from clean shaven to just a mustache, to a mustache and goatee, a Lincoln/Capt. Ahab beard without mustache, a Fu Manchu mustache and many variations of beard. I would like to be able to model my PC avatar with changeable facial hair and head hair to match my mood. (it would be too cool and probably too much to have hair that "grows.") In all seriousness lies all lies, half truths, death, misery and the great suffering of the worlds. Embrace your seriousness, then poke it in the eye, push it down and give it a good swift kick. And in all seriousness, if you take me seriously, you're going to definitely regret it. 'Cause I'm just kidding, baby, yeah! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morgoth Posted June 17, 2007 Share Posted June 17, 2007 Hair that looks decent is always a little tricky to do, especially the texture, so you might spend some time with it. I always wondered if I could have a Lara Craft like pigtail for my dwarfen lady...? Or even Bavarian style pigtails. Yes! Fully rigged, too! Because I'm a demanding customer goddamit! Rain makes everything better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaftan Barlast Posted June 17, 2007 Author Share Posted June 17, 2007 Ok, fine. Here is my hair files http://www.xn--holmstrm-t4a.net/pics/nwn2_hair_kaftan.rar Its sloppy work mind you, I wasnt really thinking when I made it so instead of taking polys from the head, copying them and thus ening up with a mesh that fit the head very closely, I just doodled up a quick spline profile and went from there. Thus: 1 the hair doesnt fit the head too closely resulting in a slight "helmet" look 2 it clips like crazy with the rest of the model 3 its not two-sided all the way so you can see right through it sometimes 4 the normal map doesnt seem to be quite bumpy enough 5 the tintmap is the result of 5min in photoshop, so it doesnt work that well 6 its rigged to only the base head bone, so it wont flop when you run and so on DISCLAIMER: Do not take what I write seriously unless it is clearly and in no uncertain terms, declared by me to be meant in a serious and non-humoristic manner. If there is no clear indication, asume the post is written in jest. This notification is meant very seriously and its purpouse is to avoid misunderstandings and the consequences thereof. Furthermore; I can not be held accountable for anything I write on these forums since the idea of taking serious responsability for my unserious actions, is an oxymoron in itself. Important: as the following sentence contains many naughty words I warn you not to read it under any circumstances; botty, knickers, wee, erogenous zone, psychiatrist, clitoris, stockings, bosom, poetry reading, dentist, fellatio and the department of agriculture. "I suppose outright stupidity and complete lack of taste could also be considered points of view. " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
@\NightandtheShape/@ Posted June 17, 2007 Share Posted June 17, 2007 (edited) I thought Id try to play a bit of NWN2 today with the new patch, and all was well except for the fact that I could not find any good haircuts for a female character. So I just thought "Oh shoot! I'll just make my own then" and I swooshed up 3ds Max and modeled a new hair, textured it shabbily, rigged it stiffly to the head and there, I could finally play. Is this taking it too far? I know I didnt like the way the weapons felt in STALKER so I modded them aswell. Im starting to do it more and more, will this end with me spending a year modifying a game with fully animated custom models, expanded storyline, tweaked gameplay etc. just so Ill be able to enjoy it without being annoyed by some tiny detail? Should I just leave my games alone? ( I'll upload the hair thingie later if anyones interested ) Considering you're plans on becoming a games designer. It's perfectly natural to mod the hell out of something when you don't like it, it also shows that you understand and comprehend the process of getting from A - B, something that designers really should understand. Come to think of it Designer is such a non-descript position, it's probably due to the area being such a vast one. Eventually what will happen is that you'll most likely be working on a game, with a team, tweaking such things and loosing sleep over them... I don't believe you'll end up excessively modding a game, if anything it's just good practice. edit: I leave modding to designers, I prefer to give designers the right tools to make they game they wish, and as much power as possible to configure it... Which is all a game engine is (a tool), tho' I am fond of taking text files and converting them to binary just to allow for a good bitch slapping of a designer when they screw up a script :D. Just one of many amusement I create for myself. Designer:- "Why's it not compiling? Your compiler sucks!". Programmer:- "Because you screwed up and probably missed a semi-colon, welcome to my world :D". Edited June 17, 2007 by @\NightandtheShape/@ "I'm a programmer at a games company... REET GOOD!" - Me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
@\NightandtheShape/@ Posted June 17, 2007 Share Posted June 17, 2007 Ok, fine. Here is my hair files http://www.xn--holmstrm-t4a.net/pics/nwn2_hair_kaftan.rar Its sloppy work mind you, I wasnt really thinking when I made it so instead of taking polys from the head, copying them and thus ening up with a mesh that fit the head very closely, I just doodled up a quick spline profile and went from there. Thus: 1 the hair doesnt fit the head too closely resulting in a slight "helmet" look 2 it clips like crazy with the rest of the model 3 its not two-sided all the way so you can see right through it sometimes 4 the normal map doesnt seem to be quite bumpy enough 5 the tintmap is the result of 5min in photoshop, so it doesnt work that well 6 its rigged to only the base head bone, so it wont flop when you run and so on You should be able to fix most of those problems in about an hour max... Surely it's worth the effort. "I'm a programmer at a games company... REET GOOD!" - Me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walsingham Posted June 18, 2007 Share Posted June 18, 2007 I'm hungry. mod me a ham on rye. "It wasn't lies. It was just... bull****"." -Elwood Blues tarna's dead; processing... complete. Disappointed by Universe. RIP Hades/Sand/etc. Here's hoping your next alt has a harp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cantousent Posted June 18, 2007 Share Posted June 18, 2007 I'm hungry. mod me a ham on rye. What a doofus. I can't believe I laughed out loud at that. Fionavar's Holliday Wishes to all members of our online community: Happy Holidays Join the revelry at the Obsidian Plays channel:Obsidian Plays Remembering tarna, Phosphor, Metadigital, and Visceris. Drink mead heartily in the halls of Valhalla, my friends! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aram Posted June 18, 2007 Share Posted June 18, 2007 I'll wait for the mustard patch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lare Kikkeli Posted June 18, 2007 Share Posted June 18, 2007 screens plz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaftan Barlast Posted June 18, 2007 Author Share Posted June 18, 2007 No screens for the wicked! You should be able to fix most of those problems in about an hour max... Surely it's worth the effort. I just saw this tutorial on sculpting a female character in Zbrush3 and if I was going to spend time with a hair model, thats probably the way Id do it. But that would take a bit more work than Im willing to do right now. WHat I should be doing is learning Softimage|XSI instead of fooling around DISCLAIMER: Do not take what I write seriously unless it is clearly and in no uncertain terms, declared by me to be meant in a serious and non-humoristic manner. If there is no clear indication, asume the post is written in jest. This notification is meant very seriously and its purpouse is to avoid misunderstandings and the consequences thereof. Furthermore; I can not be held accountable for anything I write on these forums since the idea of taking serious responsability for my unserious actions, is an oxymoron in itself. Important: as the following sentence contains many naughty words I warn you not to read it under any circumstances; botty, knickers, wee, erogenous zone, psychiatrist, clitoris, stockings, bosom, poetry reading, dentist, fellatio and the department of agriculture. "I suppose outright stupidity and complete lack of taste could also be considered points of view. " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diamond Posted June 18, 2007 Share Posted June 18, 2007 screens plz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
@\NightandtheShape/@ Posted June 18, 2007 Share Posted June 18, 2007 No screens for the wicked! You should be able to fix most of those problems in about an hour max... Surely it's worth the effort. I just saw this tutorial on sculpting a female character in Zbrush3 and if I was going to spend time with a hair model, thats probably the way Id do it. But that would take a bit more work than Im willing to do right now. WHat I should be doing is learning Softimage|XSI instead of fooling around You can get some pretty good results quickly in photoshop using the nvidia plugin, result won't be as good as with Z-Brush, but it should be good enough. Dunno about you but I can't see softimage|XSI being that different it's usually a matter of where and what the tools are called... But I dunno, Max gives me the wilies :D "I'm a programmer at a games company... REET GOOD!" - Me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morgoth Posted June 18, 2007 Share Posted June 18, 2007 It's less the tool and more the talent that determines how good an artist's work is. Doing something "quickly" isn't a habit I'm following, either. Workflow/effeciently with the tools is the key if you want to invest more time and energy into the artistic value of your work, which possibly means a better and more interesting game atmosphere as well. Rain makes everything better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wistrik Posted June 18, 2007 Share Posted June 18, 2007 Developers can't please everyone, so inevitably we find things in games we don't like, or feel we could do better ourselves. Thus there've been many times when I've stopped playing, and whipped out an editor to change something that bugs me in the game. I even get crazy over misspellings and bad grammar. So don't worry if you're taking it too far. Our personal experience in a game is ultimately what matters most, not what someone else likes or dislikes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
@\NightandtheShape/@ Posted June 18, 2007 Share Posted June 18, 2007 It's less the tool and more the talent that determines how good an artist's work is. Doing something "quickly" isn't a habit I'm following, either. Workflow/effeciently with the tools is the key if you want to invest more time and energy into the artistic value of your work, which possibly means a better and more interesting game atmosphere as well. True enough, some tools are quicker and provide fairly good results if the artist has the talents in the first place... "I'm a programmer at a games company... REET GOOD!" - Me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaftan Barlast Posted June 18, 2007 Author Share Posted June 18, 2007 You can get some pretty good results quickly in photoshop using the nvidia plugin, result won't be as good as with Z-Brush, but it should be good enough. Dunno about you but I can't see softimage|XSI being that different it's usually a matter of where and what the tools are called... But I dunno, Max gives me the wilies :D I used that plugin to create the normalmap on this model, but it doesnt "bump" enough for the engine to actually show it. But mostly, Id use Zbrush because Im a perfectionist and it would look infinitly much better with properly sculpted hair. And XSI is teh shiznitz DISCLAIMER: Do not take what I write seriously unless it is clearly and in no uncertain terms, declared by me to be meant in a serious and non-humoristic manner. If there is no clear indication, asume the post is written in jest. This notification is meant very seriously and its purpouse is to avoid misunderstandings and the consequences thereof. Furthermore; I can not be held accountable for anything I write on these forums since the idea of taking serious responsability for my unserious actions, is an oxymoron in itself. Important: as the following sentence contains many naughty words I warn you not to read it under any circumstances; botty, knickers, wee, erogenous zone, psychiatrist, clitoris, stockings, bosom, poetry reading, dentist, fellatio and the department of agriculture. "I suppose outright stupidity and complete lack of taste could also be considered points of view. " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
@\NightandtheShape/@ Posted June 18, 2007 Share Posted June 18, 2007 You can get some pretty good results quickly in photoshop using the nvidia plugin, result won't be as good as with Z-Brush, but it should be good enough. Dunno about you but I can't see softimage|XSI being that different it's usually a matter of where and what the tools are called... But I dunno, Max gives me the wilies :D I used that plugin to create the normalmap on this model, but it doesnt "bump" enough for the engine to actually show it. But mostly, Id use Zbrush because Im a perfectionist and it would look infinitly much better with properly sculpted hair. And XSI is teh shiznitz That must be the settings on the tools surely... I've certainly created some very deep bump maps using a depth of 128... But then again I think i used 9 samples aswell, regardless... Z-Brush always looks better . I would like to see the result of your work with that time and effort... In a game naturally... "I'm a programmer at a games company... REET GOOD!" - Me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morgoth Posted June 18, 2007 Share Posted June 18, 2007 That Photoshop plugin sucks, I wouldn't want to work with that half-assed thingy. ZBrush is the only way for good looking and functioning Normal Maps. And it rocks for Color Map creation, too. Rain makes everything better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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