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[mkreku]

Why do you guys always want supernatural things? And magic? And psionic powers? And divine beings and ****?

 

I would love a game where everything is based on reality, like Wasteland was. There's a certain charm to actually recognising the weapons you're using instead of just getting that next longsword +3. Bring me kevlar vests, AK-47's and RPG's and I'm happy!

[Musopticon?]

Maybe it's just that most people tend to associate "based on reality" as "modern urban". That can turn people off.

 

I'd like something that hasn't been done yet, like a flooded city, or a frozen jungle. As for supernatural and such, I'm Switzerland.

[taks]

Why do you guys always want supernatural things? And magic? And psionic powers? And divine beings and ****?

because an escape from reality is what many that play crpgs (or rpgs in general) seek. mythical beings with strange powers, swords and sorcery have always captured my interest at least. i think the fact that it is unimaginable that reality could have ever been, or ever be, as such, is what makes it interesting. i.e. you're playing around in a realm that cannot exist anywhere except in your mind.

 

taks

[Dark_Raven]

I don't know about religious based games, but one that is set up like The Stand would be cool. 99.99999% of humanity dead, but all the wonders of modern life , and all their needs to use them, still exists. Roving bands of survivors seeking to etch out a new existance while a supernatural evil lurks to take advantage of man's down fall. It could be yummy.

Cool and all but I would rather see the cities of the world being incinerated by nuclear weapons. It would give more meaning to Necropolis.

[Maria Caliban]

Cool and all but I would rather see the cities of the world being incinerated by nuclear weapons. It would give more meaning to Necropolis.

 

And the survivors ravaged by a deadly plague that made them hunger after the flesh of their former loved ones?

[Dark_Raven]

Nah. I don't like zombies or any other thing eating human flesh.

[Jorian Drake]

i understand the words, but the sentence just doesn't make sense to me

 

I believe kirottu was trying to make a point that you were talking nonsense by using an appeal to ridicule. (An example wiki gives of this type of argument: If Einstein's theory of relativity is right, that would mean that when I drive my car it gets shorter and heavier the faster I go. That's crazy!)

 

You suggested there would be little difference between a post-apololyptic Europe and America, as both would be focused on reginal conflicts, and a great deal of what makes European culture European would be gone.

 

He ridiculed your statement using this logic: If Jorian Drake's argument is correct, then we might as well disregard the pretence of a post-apocolypic Europe resembling our world at all, and instead portray it as a land filled with Elves and crime lord Huts who take counsel from Jedis, Mages and Druids.

Well, remember brahmins, those 'clawbeasts' (without skates doh), the new 'Nations' like Vault City, the Den, Necropolis, organizations like the BoS.

 

My point is that with such a huge war and with so intense regional problems, and effects later because the war the cultures we know now wouldn't really exist anymore, maybe some would but definetly not all. Some become extinct, some mutate, some survive (maybe under earth), some mix up with an other one, and new ones are also created.

 

And yes, european or asian or whateve cultures as we know them would be gone, there would be some offsprings and survivors, but most would simply 'be similar' to what we know. (This actually helps the gamedevelopers to not ignite a cultue/faith/ect. war because of the game, as most wouldn't be recognisible anyway.)

 

Um... I thought Morgoth

[Jorian Drake]

Nah. I don't like zombies or any other thing eating human flesh.

 

 

Thats sarcasm right, you with all that darkness, and love for Vampire can't dislike ghouls/werewolves/zombies/cannibals/ect ... does the world end today?

[Dark_Raven]

Fap fap?

 

Don't you have some dragons to slay or some knightly kung fu to practice?

[Jorian Drake]

Fap fap?

 

Don't you have some dragons to slay or some knightly kung fu to practice?

on you? ...or are you the dragon?

 

 

 

PS: its ninjutsu

Edited April 7, 2007 by Jorian Drake

[Maria Caliban]

Nah. I don't like zombies or any other thing eating human flesh.

 

You can't fight such a terrifying vision of mankind's future.

 

2035, a nuclear fire spreads over the earth, incinerating its major cities. On Maskiwan Army Base, a group of military families rush to fallout shelters and take refuge deep in the earth. Six months later, they emerge to a shattered world. Cities still smolder and burn, a maddening plague spreads through the scattered remnants of humanity, and when night falls, horrors from a forgotten age stalk the land.

 

The war is over; the battle for survival has just begun.

 

*cue dramatic score*

Edited April 7, 2007 by Maria Caliban

[Jorian Drake]

Nah. I don't like zombies or any other thing eating human flesh.

 

You can't fight such a terrifying vision of mankind's future.

 

2035, a nuclear fire spreads over the earth, incinerating its major cities. On Maskiwan Army Base, a group of military families rush to fallout shelters and take refuge deep in the earth. Six months later, they emerge to a shattered world. Cities still smolder and burn, a maddening plague spreads through the scattered remnants of humanity, and when night falls, horrors from a forgotten age stalk the land.

 

The war is over; the battle for survival has just begun.

 

*cue dramatic score*

*doom, doom, doooooom!*

[Morgoth]

Done here, done there. And totally lame.

[Gromnir]

Why do you guys always want supernatural things? And magic? And psionic powers? And divine beings and ****?

 

I would love a game where everything is based on reality, like Wasteland was. There's a certain charm to actually recognising the weapons you're using instead of just getting that next longsword +3. Bring me kevlar vests, AK-47's and RPG's and I'm happy!

 

 

 

 

is getting wacked with a sword just as likely to cause death as an ak-47? probably, but most o' us is brought up on movies where the hero and villains trade blows w/o getting dead until it is appropriately dramatic to do so... and for crpgs we throws in magic to explain away any lingering obstacles to suspension o' belief. magic explains why player can has leather armour that seemingly wards off battle axe blow to the noggin and it explains why people can gets instantly healed even if they does gets hurt.

 

most people recognize just how lethal a ak-47 is. is not much fun to play a genuine lethal crpg. pnp? yeah, you can do a lethal pnp without much combat and wherein combats is deadly, but crpgs gots lots o' combats, and it not look like that model is gonna change anytime soon... besides which, makes a lethal game and it not matter if you is talking swords n' sorcery or ar-15s.

 

is not the swords... is the swords and sorcery dynamic that makes work. got a modern day analog to the sorcery bit? nope. is why we typical sees super-science thrown in if you want modern weapons... need special healing kits or injections.

 

also keeps in mind that gaining experience and gaining better 1007 is part o' the modern crpg and is so integral we not see who is gonna buck trend. if you start game with ak-47, then by end o' game you is probably gonna need disintegrator rays, or handheld railguns. gaining experience is only part o' the experience... as with diablo and d&d and fo and most other crpg rules, you gets better weapons and protection as you progress through game... is part o' the reason peoples play these games... as ridiculous as it seems. heck, there is a reason why uncle fergie added random weapon/1007 drops to iwd... with some ridiculous powerful stuff avialable at end o' game. people wanna see their characters get better, and finding increasing powerful 1007 is 1/2 o' the scme. sadly, modern weapons not got the appropriate kinda curve for both offense and defense insofar as mano y mano combat is concerned.

 

btw, Gromnir is not really a fan o' any of the post apoc settings. dunno, but post apoc just not do it for Gromnir the way it once did. part o' the problem is that Gromnir grew up when cold war were at its height. is difficult to explain to folks nowadays, but pan global nuke war seemed terribly probable. have never met somebody who grew up back then who were unfamiliar with the nuke holocaust nightmare... all of us had the nuke nightmare.

 

...

 

can't recall the last time we had the nuke nightmare. is apoc due to disease or biological weapons or environmental disaster as likely as ww3 nukes? possibly, but is just not the same. no meteor or greenhouse gas nightmares for Gromnir.

 

anyways, from design pov, our 2 fav settings is low magic 100 years war or American fronteir (circa 1850s.) magic makes anything possible... for science to do same it has gotta be advanced 'nuff so that setting is no longer quite as familiar... and some people will still see stuff as scientific impossible. magic is a trump card for the impossible.

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Dark_Raven]

Nah. I don't like zombies or any other thing eating human flesh.

 

You can't fight such a terrifying vision of mankind's future.

 

2035, a nuclear fire spreads over the earth, incinerating its major cities. On Maskiwan Army Base, a group of military families rush to fallout shelters and take refuge deep in the earth. Six months later, they emerge to a shattered world. Cities still smolder and burn, a maddening plague spreads through the scattered remnants of humanity, and when night falls, horrors from a forgotten age stalk the land.

 

The war is over; the battle for survival has just begun.

 

*cue dramatic score*

Fire, fire, burn!

 

At the beginning of the game, it must have a cut scene showing the nuclear war happening.

[Jorian Drake]

Nah. I don't like zombies or any other thing eating human flesh.

 

You can't fight such a terrifying vision of mankind's future.

 

2035, a nuclear fire spreads over the earth, incinerating its major cities. On Maskiwan Army Base, a group of military families rush to fallout shelters and take refuge deep in the earth. Six months later, they emerge to a shattered world. Cities still smolder and burn, a maddening plague spreads through the scattered remnants of humanity, and when night falls, horrors from a forgotten age stalk the land.

 

The war is over; the battle for survival has just begun.

 

*cue dramatic score*

Fire, fire, burn!

 

At the beginning of the game, it must have a cut scene showing the nuclear war happening.

yes that's needed, it seems most of the games with similar stories forget to SHOW what happened

[mkreku]

most people recognize just how lethal a ak-47 is.

Yes, they do. Still, most people can enjoy a good action flick even though the hero gets shot a couple of times and still continue fighting. Remember how Rambo put gun powder in his wounds, set it on fire and instantly was fit for fight again? People don't seem to need exact reality, but I think there's a point in having recognizable weapons/equipment. I know it worked for me and since Wasteland is still on top of many "Top Games" lists around the world, I am sure it worked for a couple of other nerds too.

 

if you start game with ak-47, then by end o' game you is probably gonna need disintegrator rays, or handheld railguns. gaining experience is only part o' the experience...

I disagree. I am currently playing STALKER and although that game doesn't use levels and you gain no experience points throughout the game, you can still feel satisfaction over your progression as you advance from simple handguns, to sawed-off shotguns, up to more and more advanced combat assault rifles. The progress you make in that game (using equipment only!) is very tangible and real. I would have preferred to have some sort of levels in there too, but I am glad STALKER arrived; I've always suspected it was possible to make a great game without having to turn the player from a weakling to a god using excessive leveling and instead rely on more subtle advances. I think STALKER proves that it is possible.

 

is apoc due to disease or biological weapons or environmental disaster as likely as ww3 nukes? possibly, but is just not the same. no meteor or greenhouse gas nightmares for Gromnir.

I suspect you're slightly behind the times. Besides, you don't have to have nightmares about possible catastrophes beforehand if you manage to convey them properly to the audience. I was actually not thinking about a nuclear apocalypse. I'm so stuck in this environmental thinking that the apocalypse in my mind was automatically based on environmental effects.

 

magic is a trump card for the impossible.

Magic is the easy way out for a failed story.

[Gromnir]

oh great, another reply/quote yutz.

 

first of all rambo did indeed gets hit a couple o' times and kept on going... most adults groaned when this happened, but you is correct. how many times is you gonna get hit in a typical crpg? hundreds of times? thousands? your notions o' "exact reality" and the distance a crpg would fall from that point is... amusing. stalker, btw, is more a fps than anything else and it gots cheap magic to boot. where science becomes stoopid, it is no different than magic... and stalker gots that kinda crap. also, the stalker weapon progression ain't "realistic"... is more like fallout. ain't nothing wrong with fallout, but ain't realistic, is it? Gromnir can gets his hands on an ak-47 within days if he wishes, but you gotta start off with a relative crummy handgun... which shouldn't be as crummy as it is.

 

btw, magic gots nothing to do with story being failled. is a quaint notion though. gabriel garcia marquez gots himself one of those nobel prizes for lit. toni morrison as well. both is considered to be writers of the magic realism sub-genre... which is simply fantasy for snobs. dickens and shakespeare used overt and subtle magic in their works... those hacks. heck, even nathaniel hawthorne wrote a fantasy book. updike has used magic a few times, but he only gots pulitzers, so is easy to dismiss him? am not sure how lewis carroll coulda' written alice in wonderland w/o magic... so am not seeing how it were an "easy out for a failed story." homer used magic, and so did the unknown authors of beowulf and sir gawain. you see different 'tween magic in myth and magic in other stories? serves same purpose... an regarless, somebody had to imagine the magic into the myths somewhere along the way to make 'em the story we knows today.

 

john gardner liked to bully his stuents early during semester... he would use socratic method to get some clown to parrot the oft-repeate refrain of "write what you know." gardner would blast the poor sod... went into his lecture 'bout writing being the realization o' a living, vivid and continuous dream. gardner thought that all great fiction were ultimately fantasy... imagined up stuff that never did happen and probably never could.

 

a close friend o' john gardner were frank mcconnell. is doubtful you recognize the name, but frank were near as influential as were harold bloom. heck, frank were the chair of the pulitzer committee for fiction. if you get the chance, takes a look at neil gaiman's lengthy dedication in american gods. is the same frank mcconnell. frank loved and hated sci-fi and fantasy with equal vigor, but if you had ever suggested that magic were simply an easy way out of a failed story we doubt you woulda' gotten a meaningful response; frank had the occasional fit o' apoplectic laughter when people said particularly stoopid things.

 

as for being behind times... we doubt it. is simply that you lack perspective. the plethora o' current apoc scenarios is all pretty tame for those o' us who endured the cold war period at its height. Gromnir fully comprehends the possibility and plausibility o' multiple world killing scenarios (already noted above, but ignored by mk,)... but they is nowhere near as real and immediate as were the nuke stuff. even folks who were certain that soviets and USA would never launch nukes at each other still would have the nuke nightmares from time to time. am just glad tht Gromnir didn't have to watch and wonder during the cuban missile crisis. is biological or environmental apoc scenarios real to mk and gromnir. sure, but you just don't get how the nuke stuff were so part of everyday culture.

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Fenghuang]

Gromnir, could you maybe explain for those of us that weren't there?

[Cantousent]

Oh just read the thread if you want to know, you little doofus.

[Fenghuang]

I just don't really get it all that well.

 

I am looking for more details.

[Aegeri]

Why do you guys always want supernatural things? And magic? And psionic powers? And divine beings and ****?

 

I would love a game where everything is based on reality, like Wasteland was. There's a certain charm to actually recognising the weapons you're using instead of just getting that next longsword +3. Bring me kevlar vests, AK-47's and RPG's and I'm happy!

 

I agree. I love how I can recognise most of the weapons in Stalker and things are generally firmly based in reality (with obvious exceptions). This improves the games verisimilitude and (IMO) the whole game consequently.

[Maria Caliban]

Is a Viper 5 really more recognizable than a sword? The average person uses neither. It seems to be just another type of fantasy weapon.

[Walsingham]

Is a Viper 5 really more recognizable than a sword? The average person uses neither. It seems to be just another type of fantasy weapon.

 

My google search tells me a viper 5 is a cricket bat. Huzzah for cricket bat based attacks!

[Maria Caliban]

My google search tells me a viper 5 is a cricket bat. Huzzah for cricket bat based attacks!

 

I think an RPG in which you attacked people with cricket bats would be awesome. Sort of like American McGee's Alice.

 

Edited April 9, 2007 by Maria Caliban