J.E. Sawyer Posted January 23, 2009 Posted January 23, 2009 The short answer is that it's going to be a very large overhaul. As Sammael suggests, it's not the sort of thing you can just shuffle a few rules around. Green Ronin (I think) had a tabletop solution which involved giving partial equivalent levels for spellcasting while multiclassing. It was sort of BAB-ish in that you had an effective spellcaster level that continued to rise even when you were taking levels in non-spellcasting classes. twitter tyme
ramza Posted March 8, 2009 Posted March 8, 2009 Really, wouldn't it be faster if we used the old engine? The question has already been asked but I see more advantages than disadvantages to it. The game was like 60% completed with the old engine, and the nwn2 module is something like a cut/short version of what the original game would have been. What happened to the assets and the engine? Are they owned by Obsidian right now? Can't we continue working on these from where BIS had stopped developing the game? "Ooo, squirrels, Boo! I know I saw them! Quick, throw nuts!" -Minsc "I am a well-known racist in the Realms! Elves? Dwarves? Ha! Kill'em all! Humans rule! -Me Volourn will never grow up, he's like the Black Peter Pan, here to tell you that it might be great to always be a child, but everybody around is gonna hate it.
Pop Posted March 8, 2009 Posted March 8, 2009 (edited) Josh expressed in the past how mind-numbingly slow asset creation was with the team that he had (a team consisting of more than one person) I would suspect that's one of the big things. Plus NWN2's has had the advantage of being tested and patched, to an extent, whereas the old TBH engine never hit retail and thus we can assume didn't get much in the way of testing at all, if it was even fully functional at the time of the project's cancellation. Dude's not ****ing Superman, he can't finish a half-done studio game all by his lonesome. Edited March 8, 2009 by Pop Join me, and we shall make Production Beards a reality!
ramza Posted March 26, 2009 Posted March 26, 2009 Josh expressed in the past how mind-numbingly slow asset creation was with the team that he had (a team consisting of more than one person) I would suspect that's one of the big things. Plus NWN2's has had the advantage of being tested and patched, to an extent, whereas the old TBH engine never hit retail and thus we can assume didn't get much in the way of testing at all, if it was even fully functional at the time of the project's cancellation. Dude's not ****ing Superman, he can't finish a half-done studio game all by his lonesome. From what I remember, all the areas were done. So, all that remained was to populate them, include the dialogs and scripts, and voila! I know, it sounds easy but it isn't in reality. Still, Josh said that it was the area-making that was difficult. With that part being done, isn't it feasible to complete the game from what's left of the project? Btw, who owns the software? Instead of letting it rot on some shelves, wouldn't be more interesting to put it on the internet. Someone might as well try to salvage what remains of it... "Ooo, squirrels, Boo! I know I saw them! Quick, throw nuts!" -Minsc "I am a well-known racist in the Realms! Elves? Dwarves? Ha! Kill'em all! Humans rule! -Me Volourn will never grow up, he's like the Black Peter Pan, here to tell you that it might be great to always be a child, but everybody around is gonna hate it.
ramza Posted March 27, 2009 Posted March 27, 2009 I just want the old game... The nwn2 module just looks like a shadow of what the game should have been... less story, less NPCs, etc... "Ooo, squirrels, Boo! I know I saw them! Quick, throw nuts!" -Minsc "I am a well-known racist in the Realms! Elves? Dwarves? Ha! Kill'em all! Humans rule! -Me Volourn will never grow up, he's like the Black Peter Pan, here to tell you that it might be great to always be a child, but everybody around is gonna hate it.
Llyranor Posted March 27, 2009 Posted March 27, 2009 Yeah, why don't you use a time machine and go back to an alternate dimension where Jefferson isn't cancelled, then? (Approved by Fio, so feel free to use it)
ramza Posted March 27, 2009 Posted March 27, 2009 Lol, I might just do that as well... "Ooo, squirrels, Boo! I know I saw them! Quick, throw nuts!" -Minsc "I am a well-known racist in the Realms! Elves? Dwarves? Ha! Kill'em all! Humans rule! -Me Volourn will never grow up, he's like the Black Peter Pan, here to tell you that it might be great to always be a child, but everybody around is gonna hate it.
ramza Posted April 2, 2009 Posted April 2, 2009 Isn't there any way to get our hands on the old engine? I am really curious to see how TBH would have played with it... The Mystary engine looked very similar to the Infinity engine, and I do think that IE looked prettier than the NWN 1 and 2 engines... "Ooo, squirrels, Boo! I know I saw them! Quick, throw nuts!" -Minsc "I am a well-known racist in the Realms! Elves? Dwarves? Ha! Kill'em all! Humans rule! -Me Volourn will never grow up, he's like the Black Peter Pan, here to tell you that it might be great to always be a child, but everybody around is gonna hate it.
Llyranor Posted April 2, 2009 Posted April 2, 2009 Sure, let me use a time machine and go back to an alternate dimension where Jefferson isn't cancelled, and I'll let you know. (Approved by Fio, so feel free to use it)
ramza Posted April 2, 2009 Posted April 2, 2009 That's not what I asked. Modders still use the IE engine nowadays, so why not try out the Mystary engine to see if we can create mods with it? "Ooo, squirrels, Boo! I know I saw them! Quick, throw nuts!" -Minsc "I am a well-known racist in the Realms! Elves? Dwarves? Ha! Kill'em all! Humans rule! -Me Volourn will never grow up, he's like the Black Peter Pan, here to tell you that it might be great to always be a child, but everybody around is gonna hate it.
Musopticon? Posted April 2, 2009 Posted April 2, 2009 There has to be a working base to start on. And that's not even addressing how much hardcode and sofcode plays into this. kirottu said: I was raised by polar bears. I had to fight against blood thirsty wolves and rabid penguins to get my food. Those who were too weak to survive were sent to Sweden. It has made me the man I am today. A man who craves furry hentai. So let us go and embrace the rustling smells of unseen worlds
ramza Posted April 2, 2009 Posted April 2, 2009 Well, if we don't get the chance to see what has been done, we will never be sure whether or not it is impossible to use the engine. Is it so hard to make a public release of the codes or something? No one wants to make a commercial use of the engine anyway. "Ooo, squirrels, Boo! I know I saw them! Quick, throw nuts!" -Minsc "I am a well-known racist in the Realms! Elves? Dwarves? Ha! Kill'em all! Humans rule! -Me Volourn will never grow up, he's like the Black Peter Pan, here to tell you that it might be great to always be a child, but everybody around is gonna hate it.
Hell Kitty Posted April 2, 2009 Posted April 2, 2009 Well, if we don't get the chance to see what has been done, we will never be sure whether or not it is impossible to use the engine.Is it so hard to make a public release of the codes or something? This doesn't make any sense, obviously it was possible to use the engine, being that a game was being developed with it. No one is going to release anything just to satisfy your curiosity. We're lucky enough to get editors for games that have been released, but for games that we never even officially announced?
ramza Posted April 2, 2009 Posted April 2, 2009 It's not about me. I am sure that more than one modding team would be interested to see what that engine can do. This whole discussion is pointless however of Obsidian doesn't have the rights to the engine. If Herve and Ineptlay still have, it is likely that we will never hear of it ever again. On the other hand, it would be cool if Obz could share it with us... "Ooo, squirrels, Boo! I know I saw them! Quick, throw nuts!" -Minsc "I am a well-known racist in the Realms! Elves? Dwarves? Ha! Kill'em all! Humans rule! -Me Volourn will never grow up, he's like the Black Peter Pan, here to tell you that it might be great to always be a child, but everybody around is gonna hate it.
Llyranor Posted April 2, 2009 Posted April 2, 2009 I bet you could get some progress done if you clogged JE's inbox with requests. (Approved by Fio, so feel free to use it)
Hell Kitty Posted April 2, 2009 Posted April 2, 2009 I am sure that more than one modding team would be interested to see what that engine can do. Only in your dreams. There is nothing to modify, as no game using the engine was ever released. They'd be starting from scratch with an engine they know nothing about and for which there would be no support. People pick games to mod based on what they know they can do, like The Dark Mod team using the Doom 3 engine. Actually, something was released, that Fallout 3 tech demo thingyamybob. I'm sure there are loads of people working on modding that thing right now!
J.E. Sawyer Posted April 2, 2009 Posted April 2, 2009 I'm sorry I haven't been able to update in a long while. Mod work was delayed indefinitely a while back. I'll see if I can pick it back up after I return from vacation in a few weeks. twitter tyme
Llyranor Posted April 2, 2009 Posted April 2, 2009 Good job stressing JE out, ramza. Now he needs a vacation. (Approved by Fio, so feel free to use it)
ramza Posted April 2, 2009 Posted April 2, 2009 Roflmao, that's why I am asking for the original codes. At this rate, we are not getting the game anytime soon. I respect Sawyer's work but I think it will be quite hard for him to complete the module on his own. "Ooo, squirrels, Boo! I know I saw them! Quick, throw nuts!" -Minsc "I am a well-known racist in the Realms! Elves? Dwarves? Ha! Kill'em all! Humans rule! -Me Volourn will never grow up, he's like the Black Peter Pan, here to tell you that it might be great to always be a child, but everybody around is gonna hate it.
Sammael Posted April 13, 2009 Author Posted April 13, 2009 We've been through this before. Unless Obsidian actually bought it, the original engine (or what remains of it) is OWNED by Interplay (what's left of it), and releasing it to the public would be illegal. Even if it were released, the original engine's graphics pipeline was HORRIBLE to work with. BIS people had a hard time working with it. Modders would have to spend ages working on a single map, let alone a whole module's worth of maps. Besides, the engine is horribly outdated by now, and would likely look a lot worse than NWN2's engine. It's just _not worth it_. There are no doors in Jefferson that are "special game locked" doors. There are no characters in that game that you can kill that will result in the game ending prematurely.
Nightshape Posted April 13, 2009 Posted April 13, 2009 Interesting, this has me wondering what exactly it was that they attempted for the GFX pipeline, i.e. Why it was so bad... Etc... I came up with Crate 3.0 technology. Crate 4.0 - we shall just have to wait and see.Down and out on the Solomani RimNow the Spinward Marches don't look so GRIM!
Syraxis Posted April 13, 2009 Posted April 13, 2009 Even if it were released, the original engine's graphics pipeline was HORRIBLE to work with. BIS people had a hard time working with it. Didn't they find it difficult to work with because of the lack of experience with a full 3D engine at the time? Or at least one of the reasons, I don't remember all the details.
kirottu Posted April 14, 2009 Posted April 14, 2009 Even if it were released, the original engine's graphics pipeline was HORRIBLE to work with. BIS people had a hard time working with it. Didn't they find it difficult to work with because of the lack of experience with a full 3D engine at the time? Or at least one of the reasons, I don't remember all the details. I think that was one the reasons given why Torn failed. This post is not to be enjoyed, discussed, or referenced on company time.
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