Ulicus Posted January 11, 2007 Share Posted January 11, 2007 What proof is there of Revan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest The Architect Posted January 11, 2007 Share Posted January 11, 2007 (edited) I'm at a loss as to how the fact that every single person with any experience of the wars, including the two most prolific warrior cultures of the age - the Echani and the Mandalorians - considering Revan to be the single greatest stategist and tactician they've ever encountered doesn't count as evidence. Why do we need to know every little detail? The fact is that the OVERWHELMING consensus amongst IU character is that Revan was a ridiculously skilled military savant. I think his strategic skills were probably greater than his tactical skills, but still... heh, I find it funny that such a huge consensus can be doubted. If he wasn't great, he wouldn't have half as many people singing his praises. Hell, Brianna indicates that Revan was more skilled than even the most *legendary* amongst the Echani, Candalore flat out tells us that Revan was Mandalore the Ultimate's superior... Whether he's a Thrawn or not doesn't really matter - he was the greatest military leader of his age, and probably of his millennium. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> So tell me who, from the Republic and/or the Jedi who fought in the Mandalorian Wars, has said that Revan had great tactical prowess? Kreia? That Edited January 11, 2007 by The Architect Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Mortis Posted January 11, 2007 Share Posted January 11, 2007 So tell me who, from the Republic and/or the Jedi who fought in the Mandalorian Wars, has said that Revan had great tactical prowess? Kreia? That Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest The Architect Posted January 12, 2007 Share Posted January 12, 2007 (edited) Canderous quite clearly says that the Mandolorians had no answer to Revans tactics/stratagies. I can also recall someone saying that Revan saved us, but alas I can't remember who said that. Why would the Echani want to make Revan sound good? I can understand the Mandalorians exagurating Revans powess since they were the ones he defeated. But the Echani were fighting on the Republics side. Yes, Brianna didn't fight in the wars, but her father did and he was a general. I would say that Brianna's father would not only have been in a position to see the larger picrure of the war, but would have the skills to pass judgement on how good Revans tactics were. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> They don Edited January 12, 2007 by The Architect Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeathScepter Posted January 12, 2007 Share Posted January 12, 2007 Well Revan is all that and No there is no one like him. Why would Canderous and Yusani lie? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest The Architect Posted January 12, 2007 Share Posted January 12, 2007 (edited) Well Revan is all that and No there is no one like him.<{POST_SNAPBACK}> Whatever DorkScepter. :D Revan is the Lord of Overestimation. Why would Canderous and Yusani lie?<{POST_SNAPBACK}> You Edited January 12, 2007 by The Architect Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Purgatorio Posted January 12, 2007 Share Posted January 12, 2007 (edited) What Architects getting at (I think) is: That they would say Revan was superior because they were beaten. They are a warrior class, so if Revan beat them, they are weak, puny, and unmanly (which is just wrong when it comes to Mandalorians... except Boba Fett ). So of course they would say Revan is Edited January 12, 2007 by Purgatorio S.A.S.I.S.P.G.M.D.G.S.M.B. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xard Posted January 12, 2007 Share Posted January 12, 2007 (edited) I really can't see why Architect has this campaign going on this topic. IMO it's said vlearly many times Revan was teh Genius. There's no reason to presume otherwise. Although I like your posts in general very mucho, Architect , I don't agree with you at all in this topic. Your "proofs" are little bit... well, since I can't come up with anything that means same as kaukaa haettua, I say they're "far shots". Really, black looks white from certain point of view. This is same kind of thing. If there isn't any proof you can make it to look like there is. For example whole "mandalorians and echnani are lying" is just... well, stupid Edited January 12, 2007 by Xard How can it be a no ob build. It has PROVEN effective. I dare you to show your builds and I will tear you apart in an arugment about how these builds will won them. - OverPowered Godzilla (OPG) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest The Architect Posted January 12, 2007 Share Posted January 12, 2007 (edited) To be honest, I Edited January 12, 2007 by The Architect Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DAWUSS Posted January 13, 2007 Share Posted January 13, 2007 Thing is, this subject will pop back up again like a bad habit... DAWUSS Dawes ain't too bright. Hitting rock bottom is when you leave 2 tickets on the dash of your car, leave it unlocked hoping someone will steal them & when you come back, there are 4 tickets on your dashboard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Purgatorio Posted January 13, 2007 Share Posted January 13, 2007 ^ You mean the clap. S.A.S.I.S.P.G.M.D.G.S.M.B. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DAWUSS Posted January 13, 2007 Share Posted January 13, 2007 Giggity giggity goo... DAWUSS Dawes ain't too bright. Hitting rock bottom is when you leave 2 tickets on the dash of your car, leave it unlocked hoping someone will steal them & when you come back, there are 4 tickets on your dashboard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calax Posted January 13, 2007 Share Posted January 13, 2007 Mandalore at that period was a strategic genius. Revan? Maybe, the only real "prowess" in terms of strategy he showed was preserving factories and industrial sites across the galaxy during the Civil war. This would have allowed him to simply recrew those factories and put more material out faster than if he had ordered the planet taken just a tch faster. Thrawn still puts Revan to shame. Victor of the 5 year fan fic competition! Kevin Butler will awesome your face off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zann Posted January 13, 2007 Share Posted January 13, 2007 This thread in a nutshell: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DAWUSS Posted January 13, 2007 Share Posted January 13, 2007 So... Thrawn or Revan? DAWUSS Dawes ain't too bright. Hitting rock bottom is when you leave 2 tickets on the dash of your car, leave it unlocked hoping someone will steal them & when you come back, there are 4 tickets on your dashboard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xard Posted January 13, 2007 Share Posted January 13, 2007 No one beats Thrawn How can it be a no ob build. It has PROVEN effective. I dare you to show your builds and I will tear you apart in an arugment about how these builds will won them. - OverPowered Godzilla (OPG) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benjamin Korr Posted January 14, 2007 Share Posted January 14, 2007 I was under the impression that The Jedi Order won't join the War under any condition. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> *Nods* It is meantioned several times in both games that the Jedi council didn't act, it was a group of Jedi who followed Revan that took part in the war. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> And...your point is Darth Mortis? Oh and DeathScepter, the Jedi Council said they would have eventually acted. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Aye. The Jedi would have stepped in when the time was right. What kept them from doing this, was that Revan jumped the gun and thus forced the council to hold back in order to preserve the Jedi. You can look at this whole thing a few different ways, but I think the message here is that it would have been better for young "booksmarts" Reven to hold back and wait for the "old geezers" to say it was time to go. As always, there is a lot more to any picture than any one person can see by himself. Reven thought he was an exception to this rule, and that is why he fell. If he had waited he would have gone to war with the council's blessing, and he would have saved the Republic from a whole lot of suffering down the road. Reven may have prevented the deaths of millions by acting, but he caused many many more billions to die because he fell. With him fell Malak and many other Jedi, thus causing the domino effect which led up to the Exile's adventure in Kotor 2. Listen to the Council next time Reven! "The dimmest light can shatter the darkest night, and the light I carry is in no way dim." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Mortis Posted January 14, 2007 Share Posted January 14, 2007 As always, there is a lot more to any picture than any one person can see by himself. Reven thought he was an exception to this rule, and that is why he fell. To quote Kriea "You presume much, did Revan truely fall?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rosbjerg Posted January 15, 2007 Share Posted January 15, 2007 Also I would like to add.. before closure.. All things considered it's pretty impressive simply taking command over such a large force as the entire republican army - coordinating major attacks in several star systems and sectors of space.. I think it's safe to presume that Revan was, if not brilliant, then very gifted in his/hers ability to command! as pulling off such a logistic hell is impressive on it's own.. Fortune favors the bald. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeathScepter Posted January 16, 2007 Share Posted January 16, 2007 As much I would love to see this debate going, in why or why not Revan is a stragetic genius. I do think that The Architect is right on that point. I have my own reason for not like The Exile as much as I do like Revan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xard Posted January 16, 2007 Share Posted January 16, 2007 (edited) Two biggest "problems" in Architect's ideas: 1) They're way too complicated. On "surface" and without these silly "conspiration" theorys nothing implies Revan WASN't tactical genius. This thing is going all wrong. It should be attempt to prove Revan to not be tactical genius, not vice versa. It didn't matter that Republic had more troops, more supplies etc. since Mandalorians are propably best warriors in whole Galaxy. Catastrophe of Dxun was never ment to show "Revan's really bad commander". No it was ment to show how terrifying warriors mandalorians are. For example, better weapons, supplies and more troops doesn't mean much. Great example of this is Winter War. Most current reliable estimaate puts the figure at 126,875 men killed in CCCP's Red Army. Losses of Finland were 22,830 I could continue to debate for my points, but I guess you already get my point of view. I may continue if I have will and time for it 2) as kotors are RPG's, they're full with ego bruising. For example in NwN2 Kana calls you "The Great Captain of Neverwinter" ecen if you would cook and eat small babies in front of her. Same applies for Revan. What else than ego bruising you could call the fact your character is one of the strongest jedis/siths ever, was a terrifying Sith Lord, who won Mandalorian Wars due his superior charisma and battle intelligence, turned 1/3 of Republic fleet against Republic and brought Republic to its knees. Edited January 16, 2007 by Xard How can it be a no ob build. It has PROVEN effective. I dare you to show your builds and I will tear you apart in an arugment about how these builds will won them. - OverPowered Godzilla (OPG) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darth caesar Posted January 16, 2007 Share Posted January 16, 2007 Revan is viewed as a s and t master b/c he won. All the others lost. When you defeat everyone else, you're the best. Pretty simple. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laozi Posted January 16, 2007 Share Posted January 16, 2007 Darth Caesar People laugh when I say that I think a jellyfish is one of the most beautiful things in the world. What they don't understand is, I mean a jellyfish with long, blond hair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest The Architect Posted January 17, 2007 Share Posted January 17, 2007 (edited) Yeah yeah, fair enough Xard. I see your points. And darth caesar, . I agree with your logic. Revan is better than the Mandalorians because he/she beat them. Still, would you think that Malak was a military genius if he won the Jedi Civil War? And Darth Mortis, who cares if Revan truly fell or not? Revan was DS, simply because of the billions of innocent peoples deaths he/she caused. Anyway, could one of you mods please lock this topic of mine? Edited January 17, 2007 by The Architect Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calax Posted January 17, 2007 Share Posted January 17, 2007 Revan is viewed as a s and t master b/c he won. All the others lost. When you defeat everyone else, you're the best. Pretty simple. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> And comic book geeks will rave about how the situation usually causes victories and defeats (there have been numerous Hulk V superman debates and uncountable Batman v everyone debates using this) Victor of the 5 year fan fic competition! Kevin Butler will awesome your face off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts