darth caesar

Ok, so this ties into the above. The parallels between the kotor trilogy and the 4-6 trilogy are pretty clear. Where: (LS CANAON) Ep 4 ends with destruction of death star, a republic celebration, and a new set of heroes (luke, han, leia, chewy, etc) kotor I ends with the destruction of star forge, a republic celebration, and a new set of heroes (revan, bastilla, carth, etc) Ep 5 ends with a "cliffhanger", where han is captured, vader and luke are headed towards confrontation, last scene is of the ship... kotor 2 ends with a (very mild) cliffhanger, where exile finds truth at malachor, and looks for the missing revan, last scene is of ship... Ep 6 ends with plot resolution, confirmation about vader/luke, climax of luke turning vader, space battle and vader defeating palpatine, han and leia, republic celebration, etc So based on history we should expect kotor 3 to contain plot resolution about revan and his purpose as well as revan and bastilla, a final "big" battle (perhaps in multiple locations) between true sith and republic/jedi/mandalorians, hopefully more about exile and true jedi, as well as some sort of duel between revan and ultimate sith master, with the required republic celebration at the end

Exile has tendency to follow his own instincts, and trust his judgment. Has the ability to admit he makes mistakes but doesn't subscribe to the jedi council's every opinion. This self-reliance is the reason he is at odds with them. It is also the reason he left revan and the war behind after malachor. Exile is introspective, and tends to withdraw into himself when overloaded. Malachor represented a total overload of every sensation for him. Too much to process at once. So he cut himself off from the force and roamed around for years trying to sort things out. Ultimately, Exile overcomes the wounds of the past and rebuilds his life as a Jedi. His own kind of Jedi. It is this power of will (second only to that of Revan) that draws others towards him. Atton, who before was little more than a murderer, wishes to learn of the force to put right some things that went wrong and to protect exile. Brianna breaks a vow to her master to join exile and learn the force. Mira admits she wants to be like exile and try to bring help and comfort to the universe. Visas leaves her master and falls in love with Exile. Romantically, exile is attracted to mira, visas, and handmaiden. He ultimately prefers handmaiden. It's a mutual thing. He admires her "good at all costs" personality, and enjoys trying to loosen her up a bit. He sees handmaiden as a moral compass to which he can always consult in tough times. She admires exile's battle ability, courage, and moral fiber. She also sees their relationship as parallel to the one her mother (kae) had with her father. Battling together, side by side. Exile enjoys battle, but doesn't seek it. He notices that his will power attracts conflict, which ultimately ends up in people either dying by his blade or joining his side. He admires Mandalore and Clan Ordo for their willingness to rebuild, though questions how effective he can be in the long run. He also seeks to find Revan, defeat the true sith, and then rebuild the jedi council. After that, it's anybody's guess what he will do, where he will go, and who will be with him.

LOL I understand. We could go round and round on this one. But it's interesting at least. Yeah, the situation helps determine the winner at times, but typically the person who makes the best decisions wins. Malak is portrayed as relying on overwhelming numbers and brute force. Revan did this as well, but also relied on more subtle methods; feigning attacks, sacrificing planets he didn't need, thinking three of four steps ahead of his enemies. Had malak won the final confrontation with revan, and defeated the republic, he would have been seen as a military genius. Unfortunately, the folks who don't win wars usually don't get such good pub. I think only Robert E Lee and Rommel are exceptions to that rule.

Star Forge for all the above reasons. The LA "hit squad' really sliced and diced the ending to k2, so I'll give malachor V an incomplete.

As male exile, the option to put the moves on mira, handmaiden, and visas at the leval revan and bastilla had for kotor 1. The romance was fairly stunted in this game. What would be cool about this is the jealousy that would develop if you pick one (or two...or all three:)of the girls as your gf. This "catfight" potential was hinted at in k2 but not really explored fully. More Carth and Bastilla would have been nice as well. We didn't need a complex plot with them in it, but 20 minutes of dialog would have been nice. Explain what bastilla has been doing since revan has gone away, etc. Finally, I will add my name to the list of folks who wanted to see the droid factory. It would be super cool to "end hostilities" with 100 or so HK units. Perhaps get some more knowledge of hk47, have other units comment on his ability, show jealousy of him, etc. The more I play k2 the less angry I am at obsidian and more disappointed in LA for rushing them. Good news is they aren't making that mistake with k3. :D

Revan is viewed as a s and t master b/c he won. All the others lost. When you defeat everyone else, you're the best. Pretty simple.

"You've got it all wrong darth caesar, whether as theslug has got it right." Compelling argument. LOL. No, I actually am on to something here. Your story is pretty good but only caters to the DS fan...which is less than half of the fan base. Making Revan overtly DS and then leaving it up to the user to either change him to LS or push him further to the DS is a rehash of K1. Sluggo is getting close when he states that Revan must "pretend" to go dark side in order to get it on with the true sith. I think Revan doesn't walk either side, completely. Malak hints at this at the end of K1. Revan will always do what he feels is correct, regardless of the popular opinions of the sith, jedi, and citizens of the republic. And this is what Kreia is attempting to do with Exile. Trying to get her to walk the line and think for herself. But yeah, K3 should be awesome...I can't wait to see what they do.

Arch, Here's my problem with your idea. You have made it quite clear that LS canon is of little use to you and deride the alleged LS bias present in the fan base. You have made it equally clear that having similar aspects of kotor 1 and 2 appearing in kotor 3 is taking the easy way out, and a 'cop-out.' Those are both respectable ideas. Yet, instead of finding a new storyline, you continue to fall back to the DS "Revan went to the dark side again, it's up to us to decide" card. The problem is, we've been through this before! Any LS player has already spent 30 hours answering this question, and leading Revan in a completely different direction than what you have given. Setting the k3 game to have him automatically go back to the dark side makes a complete waste of the many LS hours spent on K1. It Actually makes the whole game quite pointless for any LS player. Moreover, it turns into a complete cop-out by rehashing something we've already seen. The entire plot of k1 is the choice that the player makes: is Revan on the Dark or Light Side? Asking this question again is very boring. The idea of Revan going to a third direction, in other words, continuing to evolve, is an interesting one. Malak, at the end of his life, told Revan he would always stand alone. So who is Revan now? Now that he has been on both sides of the force? To me, he becomes more mysterious than ever. I don't see him as totally LS or DS...he has become something else. Something new. Your zeal to have a DS storyline is remarkable. The problem is, you're replacing one bias for another. Instead of finding flexibility and multiple solutions, you are simply subbing in your own DS bias in the place of the canon LS bias. This is a logical fallacy.

Pretty solid storyline arch. I have some minor points of contention. But first, what I like: The story itself is logical. It fits in with what Revan is all about. Excellent tactics and strategy, military leadership, and bold, risky behavior. Taking the fight to the True Sith. I also like the idea of the exile playing a prominent role in pt 3. A lot of folks became as attached (or even more) to exile as they were to revan. Having a major role for him/her is a good idea. Finally, the idea of having a 3rd PC emerge in this game is cool too. It gives us the opportunity to build up some anticipation and learn more about the situation before resolving the storyline. I disagree with making the redemption of Revan a LS focal point in 3. Simply for the reason that we've been there, and done that. For us LS fans, that was one of the main points of kotor 1. We spent the entire game turning this dude around to the light side of the force. To make this the LS storyline in kotor 3 would be pretty repetitive and boring. A cop-out, as you say. Also, the devs should be able to put the same face choices we had in 1 and 2 for revan and exile. I would include the mask option for revan in those choices for the DS fans. But Revan not wearing a mask shouldn't be a problem for the storyline. It's not like many folks in the unknown worlds would recognize him anyway. Remember, Revan visited Koriban, a home of the Sith, in k1 and nobody recognized him (or believed him when he said he was Revan)! So having Revan without a mask shouldn't be a big stretch in this case. If folks like the mask, add it, and if not, don't. The big question is, on the new platforms like 360 and ps 3, is there enough room to accomodate the different storylines from the beginning? Is it possible, from a technical standpoint, to load in 3 or 4 different starting points and then go from there? If so, then I think LS canon and DS fans could all be happy.

"The problem would be more to do with any of the characters from the first two games showing up to much. I think one of the reasons LA hasn't said anything about KOTOR 3 might be because of the difficulty in finding ways to bring some of them back." If what you say is true, then the problem is trying to please everybody. By having every possible outcome from the previous two games included, you are saying it would be a nightmare scenario from a technical standpoint. If this is the case, then the canon backstory would be the logical choice. If it is simply a matter of the game becoming too complex, there must be ONE starting point that will be used. Of course the idea of many different finish lines should still be in the game. Having the choice of good or evil, having a handful of different outcomes would be appealing. But to try and weave in 6 or 7 different starting points is a bit insane. LucasArts should not worry about offending the minority who prefer the DS. They should use the canon as the starting point. Then it's possible to make a quality game that offers all the perks and features we've come to be familiar with from the first two.

So why is having different characters available based on gender choice such a problem? The previous games featured this trick, where dialog and plot options were changed depending upon what the player decided from the beginning. A male revan can romance bastilla. A female revan can get with carth. A male exile can have a variety of chicks, the female can get with atton. KOTOR 3 shouldn't be any different. Concerning the panic attack is coming from alleged LS "bias". Both games have allowed the characters to eseentially decide if they were going to be LS or DS, and also allowed for separate endings that reflected those choices. So it basically comes down to who prefers what. And if a majority of folks prefer LS to DS, so be it.

KOTOR III idea. This is a very rough brainstorm that I've come up with and included bits borrowed from numerous postings. Feel free to add, subtract, rip apart, or flesh out further. If something similar has already been posted, I apologize....I just looked through this thread only! Don't have time to go thru them all right now. PART I: The starting point depends on how much time has passed between k2 and k3. I would prefer less than 5 years. The opening allows you to assign the face/gender of revan, exile, and your new character. The choices can include new faces, but have all the old choices featured on kotor 1 and 2. Starting as a new character who awakens at a republic barrracks that is on a world near the outer rim would be cool. The soldier does not have memory loss (I think we've had enough of that over k1 and k2) and must pick up some weapons from his footlocker and fight his way out of the base. The attackers are a mix of sith soldiers and other creatures...creatures we haven't seen to this point. The character fights his way to a communications bunker and is told that the planet must be abandoned...the attacking sith are just a skirmish line...the real invasion is about to start. The player then looks up to the sky and sees a massive fleet of sith ships moving into position. Fighting this is impossible. He is directed towards a small ship and escapes with one other soldier...the opposite sex of the pc. The escape ship encounters some resistance, and the player takes the gun turrets. While shooting at the bad guys, the sith attackers manage to damage the hyperdrive and communications; so the ship, after repulsing attackers, must land on a nearby outer rim world. Here the story begins to unfold. After finding a place to land. The soldiers must explore and battle natives and beasts to get needed equipment to fix the hyperdrive and communications. While working through this and many side quests, the 2 characters encounter an old Jedi (perhaps Bindo) and learn of the story of Revan, Bastilla, and some more jedi/sith history. This will serve to fill in the gaps of the time between k1 and k2 as well as k2 and k3. Once this planet has been finished, the players, with new jedi friend in tow, will be able to repair the ship and the communications. Once this is done, they will learn that the republic is being invaded...on many fronts. On the newscast, none other than Admiral Carth O'Nasi is commenting about the latest developments. You also receive a strange, coded message that seems broken up and non-sensical. The old jedi will begin to speculate about the possibility of the true sith being behind the attack...and, notice that the pc is a force sensitive. the jedi will talk about meeting up with othr jedi, finding revan and exile, etc. He eventually offers to train you for jedi padawan status, on the grounds that the jedi are going to need all the help they can get. You accept, on the condition that first you must head to wherever Carth is to get more information about the location of revan and the new jedi council. The old jedi wants to meet up with them both to help your training and eventually to battle the true sith. Carth's location is the next planet stop. You have side missions here and then get to talk to carth. Carth fills in more details about the missing time, where he believe revan to be (based on intelligence reports), etc. Further, he asks if you received any strange transmissions while on the opening planet. You say that you did. He then reveals that he received a similar broadcast...that appears to join in with your fragment to form a piece of a map...a map to where revan is located, perhaps? He then reveals that the "jedi council" is scattered on 4 different worlds, and that the fifth world is a mandalorian encampment with canderous ordo as mandalore. Carth speculates that each world/jedi received a communique that has another "map" piece on it, and speculates further that it's revan telling everyone where to meet him. Seeing as how he has a war to run, carth instructs your crew to go to each of the planets, look for the main character there, and get the pieces of the mysterious message. Once you have this, you are to report the location to him, and he will meet you there. Planet 1) Bastilla Planet 2) Mira Planet 3) Canderous Planet 4) Atton Planet 5) Visas You can do these in any order...except perhaps Bastilla must be first. Throughout you will be taught the force and jedi techniques from the above 4 jedi as well as jolee....with opportunities to go dark side or light side along the way. The worlds are full of surprises, as well as cahracters from the first two kotor. After going through all the worlds, you have all of the above in your group. You also have a map to a planet not listed on republic charts, beyond the outer rim. You inform carth where you're going, and the ebon hawk blasts off to take you there. Second Half of KOTOR III PART II: The ebon hawk flies to a strange planet that looks more like an asteroid. It is a weird, barren surface filled with sith soldiers, the creatures from the opening attack, etc. You must fight through them to get to the temple/base. The base/temple is filled with runes and other strange symbols. The PC, BAstilla, and another character of player's choice make the attack. Bastilla is required to come along, she reasons that if revan is here, she wants to be the first to help him...and to see him. The group of three encounters a base that is heavily armed...they fight their way through to discover the exile held prisoner by a powerful sith of some sort. This sith boss will delight at having fooled the jedi masters, the exile, and bastilla into thinking revan was here. He will then claim to have killed revan. Bastilla will grow angry and deny it, saying she feels revan is still alive. THe sith boss will laugh and use his powerful mastery of the force to begin defeating the good guys. As the battle takes a turn for the worse, an explosion is heard off in the distance. It's a jedi in full robe and mask, accompanied by hk-47. After laying waste to the minions who have been attacking pc, bastilla, etc., the character takes off his mask and reveals himself to be revan! The sith boss flees deeper into the temple. The next scene is one in which Revan and Bastilla reunite. Yes, they kiss and exchange the requisite "I missed you" stuff. They then attempt to get their minds together, and revan fills in the details about what's happening. After getting this backstory, you learn that this is one of two known "true sith" bosses. This one is the weakest. You free exile, and then pursue. Revan defeats this sith boss, and gets a hologram off his dead body that leads to another sith planet. Your party goes back to the ebon hawk to find carth, some republic soldeirs, as well as ordo's mandalorians waiting outside for the 411. You fill them in, telling them that this move could give the republic peace for scores of years. After all the catching up, you board the ship for what should be a long journey across unknown space. It's during this time that Revan and Bastilla fully discuss what they want from one another. There are dialog options that lead to them getting back together for good after this battle, etc. The cutscene ends with them visibly kissing once again and saying the "I love you" bits again. The character is also free to talk to other characters and catch up further. The exile and jedi from other planets as well as ordo should be included in this. "I missed you" etc. After a long journey, and some space battles, the crew discovers an orbital base surrounding a planet. To get on the planet, you have to shut down a planet shield that operates on the base. Once this is done, the ebon hawk, plus republic/mandalorian crews land on the new planet. THis one is even more strange than the previous. Full of strange creatures, sith soldiers, actual "sith" creatures (the red humanoids that the sith bred with), and other bizarre things. There are several intense battle scenes. You play as Revan again as you, Exile, BAstilla, and PC attack the true sith boss and attempt to destroy him. As you chase him down, he locks himself inside a vault and passes his knowledge on to an apprentice. Here, many secrets are revealed, including the beginning of the mandalorian wars, the power behind the sith on korriban (as hinted by ajunta pall) etc. The apprecentice scurries off with holograms, and instructions to carry on the "great work" of creating a true sith empire some day. This last sith boss then opens the vault, and allows revan, bastilla and exile to enter. There is some dialogue that leads to a battle. This battle features the sith lord drawing upon the spirits of the dead sith to attack the jedi....much like malak drawing upon the force powers of the maimed jedi in k1. Eventually the spirits paralyze the exile and bastilla. The sith lord taunts revan, threatens to kill bastilla, etc. The two battle it out and eventually Revan kills him. This leads to extended celebration scenes of republic troops celebrating, of mandalorians doing the same. Revan and his crew share some dialog...mostly congratulatory. Ordo tells his boys they fought well, etc. Cut to the sith apprentice escaping the scene, heading towards the dagobah system to rebuild and begin long terms plans for the sith empire to re-establish itself in republic space...to rot the republic from within. This guy is simply biding time for someone to learn of the sith knowledge and begin again... We cut back to the celebration with one more dialog...with options for exile, carth, etc. Revan wishes them to re-form the jedi council on differing planets...and then tells bastilla they can finally get together. last shot: revan and bastilla kiss as celebratory fireworks go off in background. Que star wars music.