50 Reasons Why NWN1 is better than NWN2

[alanschu]

How do people have problems with the minimap? THere's a cone depecting the direction you are looking, so just point the cone in the correct direction?

 

 

Darque, you probably could cheat it, though I don't know if you'll get the game to recognize that it should be treated as an indoor area. You'll probably have to specify that that zone is always in night time and stuff like that. I still find the complaints about the lack of ramps inside caves to be a particularly weak one though, given that the exterior terrain mapping is 100002304 times better than the exterior terrain of the original NWN. Sure, it sucks that you can't do that inside, but to state unequivocally that that is one way that NWN is better than NWN2 ignores the abilities that the terrain creator can provide in the toolset.

 

You can't get this in NWN1.

[Llyranor]

I dunno. Looking at the way placeables have been creatively used in the NWN2 OC so far, NWN2 interiors destroy NWN1 interiors by a long shot.

[alanschu]

I dunno. Looking at the way placeables have been creatively used in the NWN2 OC so far, NWN2 interiors destroy NWN1 interiors by a long shot.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

But the ramps! The ramps! Major boondoggle. A game ender really.

 

 

EDIT: Anyone else suddenly suspicious of an alt-account? <_<

Edited November 24, 2006 by alanschu

[Dark_Raven]

I dunno. Looking at the way placeables have been creatively used in the NWN2 OC so far, NWN2 interiors destroy NWN1 interiors by a long shot.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Anything about NWN2 destroys NWN1.

[17243_1556103691]

14) Load times. Get the popcorn and cross your finger you don't have to reboot..just from making a transition. NWN2 made good and sure you won't be playing online even if you do manage to find that servers pwc file somehow.

 

I agree, load times are too long.

 

15) Portraits. As if NWN2 could be any less immersive they decided to take away even the simplest but profound customizations when they made sure you can't use custom portraits now. No photo realistic heads for you, nope. You're forced to look at that poorly modeled character you regretfully settled for earlier.

 

Portraits in the vein of the IE games would be pleasing to my eyes. However they wouldnt be needed if Obsidian got the character models and customization right.

 

22) No combat animations for any moves? NWN1 did this better and it's 5 years older. You'd think they'd have made one for cleave, dance of death even?

 

The request for a cleave animation is utterly stupid. It would completely invalidate the FB class. I do miss the dance of death though. It seems Obsidian couldnt come up with good animations for combat and then just decided to make characters fight at light speed instead.

 

23) The Feats list on character creation is stacked for the same type of feat eg: Weapon focus. There's no sub menus? No organization Was this meant to fool us into thinking there were more feats? Bioware managed to streamline that before public release.

 

This needs to be fixed.

 

28) You can't die in NWN2. You're forced to endure more of the same hour long inevitable foregone conclusion dialouge and "AI Party mumbers do it for me or run away" combat. No but seriously you can't die.

 

I blame this on leftist politics.

 

31) Remeber hwo you could just walk up to a peasant and bhead him if you so chose in NWN1? Maybe you wanted some evil points or possible loot. Well Obsidian in all of their Disney Splendor decided to protect the random villager and spare them from your fury now as you can no longer randomly attack non combatants.

 

32) To further compound the above issue, you cant make a non hostile hostile. How does this fair for PVP? Well take a look at how like 2 people are playing online total and figure it out. NWN had the foresight to knwo that basic fundamental option needed to be there.

 

This is another really idiotic decision on Obsidians part.

 

34) Remember how in NWN1 you could see all of your character stats right there at once? Now you can't even see your actual AB and BAB in the same locaition let alone item bonuses.

 

NWN needs detailed character stats ala Icewind Dale 2.

 

39) Minimap is far inferior to the basic Map of NWN1. At least in that you knew where you were going. try to follow the minimap going from a to b...no seriously try it. Make that square already.

 

I dont know why but I cant navigate anywhere using the normal minimap. But since I run on High res, I can use the main area map as the minimap, and that is perfectly suitable for me. Improvements to the actual minimap would be welcome.

 

 

Points other than the ones I quoted above are just nitpicking, for the most part, or dont concern me at all.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Agreed, these are all big ones. Though the poorly modeled and textured, inaccurate and unresearched armor, and flimsy cardboard looking weapons coupled with no vertex weighting are two glaring weaknesses as well. I could almost play this game again if they managed to fix both of those things with new people on the job.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

lol I can't believe you actually did it. I told you you'd get fanboy attacked. Amen though on all of these points.

[roshan]

How do people have problems with the minimap? THere's a cone depecting the direction you are looking, so just point the cone in the correct direction?

 

Off the top of my head, the map has points at the corners which show you in which direction certain landmarks are. However, these points are useless because the direction they are in doesnt necessarily reflect the path you need to take to get there.

 

In order to find out how to get there you need to zoom out to see more of the map, but when you zoom out, the paths become impossible to see.

 

Another problem is that zooming out doesnt decrease the size of the markers on the map. With marker size becoming so much larger in relation to the background, the map becomes even more useless.

 

I turn it off but it keeps popping back up.

[Pidesco]

[quote name='

Edited November 25, 2006 by Pidesco

[alanschu]

How do people have problems with the minimap? THere's a cone depecting the direction you are looking, so just point the cone in the correct direction?

 

Off the top of my head, the map has points at the corners which show you in which direction certain landmarks are. However, these points are useless because the direction they are in doesnt necessarily reflect the path you need to take to get there.

 

That's a problem with pretty much ANY minimap though. To bitch at NWN2 for not showing you the paths is to pretty much bitch at any game's minimap.

 

In order to find out how to get there you need to zoom out to see more of the map, but when you zoom out, the paths become impossible to see.

 

Meh, I never noticed an issue. Though to be quite honest, I don't really use it because I don't really find the maps large nor complex.

[17243_1556103691]

[quote name='

[metadigital]

That's it, i'm not listening to another bloody word from someone who says 'way cheaper'.

 

Because I was listening before.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[Pidesco]

One of my biggest beefs with Riftworm's complaints is that some of them are fairly reasonable until he says NWN1 is much better in whatever respect. Example:

 

Riftworm: NWN2 sucks because it's too linear.

 

Me: The guy has a point.

 

Riftworm: NWN2 should be less linear like NWN1.

 

Me. Wait, what? Oh, bugger off.

 

 

It's kind of like saying that one doesn't like Christina Aguilera because her music is too commercial, and then say Aguilera should be more like Britney Spears, instead. It's stupid.

Edited November 25, 2006 by Pidesco

[Riftworm]

One of my biggest beefs with Riftworm's complaints is that some of them are fairly reasonable until he says NWN1 is much better in whatever respect. Example:

 

Riftworm: NWN2 sucks because it's too linear.

 

Me: The guy has a point.

 

Riftworm: NWN2 should be less linear like NWN1.

 

Me. Wait, what? Oh, bugger off.

 

 

It's kind of like saying that one doesn't like Christina Aguilera because her music is too commercial, and then say Aguilera should be more like Britney Spears, instead. It's stupid.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Wait, you could explore and run off of paths before and now you can't. How is that better in any way?

[Nartwak]

They're assinine because you said so? Because someone else said so?

They're assinine because they're demonstably false and hyperbolic.

 

Many of these complaints are the same you'll find at Bioware forums by hundreds of people, so subjective sure, but complaints none the less.

Wow. Billions and billions of phantom posters on another forum? Were you trying to go somewhere other than Fallacy Town with that? Cause, as it is, a poor appeal to popularity doesn't bolster you.

 

Where am I "combative" or authoratative? As i recall you and one other were the first to start hurling personal attacks, not I.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I don't know, maybe your writ of opinions which you titled "50 Reasons NWN2 is worse than NWN1"? I'm glad to see we've progressed to the defensively obtuse portion of this game.

[Wistrik]

To begin with, I feel that it would have been best if NWN2 was to NWN1 as Baldur's Gate 2 was to Baldur's Gate 1, an improvement in nearly every facet of the game engine and campaign. However, because the dev team for NWN2 is different than the team that made NWN, this simply couldn't happen. To illustrate, look at how IWD differed from BG, and how IWD2 differed from BG2 (rule differences aside).

 

1. This is a campaign limitation, and it was stated before the game was released that the NWN2 OC was being designed for singleplayer.

 

2. This seems to be more of a resistance to change than anything else. I haven't played NWN for some time, so it didn't take long to get used to the UI of NWN2. If you are switching back and forth between games, then I can understand how you might be frustrated.

 

3. Both games feature weak party NPC AI. Both games allow players to code their own AI. This has already been done for NWN, and I expect a similar project for NWN2 if it hasn't already started. NWN2 allows additional control of the UI through XML coding, so the potential for improvement is greater.

 

4. I miss NWN's vertex weighted tunics and armors, and hope that a future patch will add this functionality to NWN2. However I don't think it'll happen so long as armor is simply painted onto a model as a skin texture. NWN2 took a shortcut in this regard.

 

7. NWN did this better. I get a chuckle when I see various animations, instead of "awesome!". That whole bit of casting so hard you lift yourself off the ground is also very silly.

 

10. Some people, myself included, didn't like playing Tetris with their equipment, so the change was made to BG/IWD style inventory where everything uses one slot. It can be a challenge picking one weapon from another, but that's what tooltips are for.

 

I'm still waiting for items to stack properly when placed into bags. That little glitch carried over from NWN, but actually got worse. Now we have to remove the previous stack from the bag, combine it with the new stack, then place the resulting stack back into the bag. Ugly. My short-term solution is to drop all the stackable stuff in one inventory page and throw everything else into the bags.

 

15. If there were more head/hair options, there would automatically be more portrait options, since the latter is derived from the former. It would also be nice if the portraits weren't flattened; they tend to give a Geiger look to the skulls of the characters. I'd rather have a portrait that accurately reflects my in-game avatar, so I think NWN2's portrait system is better.

 

21. Agreed, NWN had almost no problem in this regard. The beta patch doesn't quite get it right, so hopefully future patches will finally fix this annoyance. Best thing to do now is pause, carefully click on the target, then unpause.

 

22. Some claim it was to support the ultra-fast movements. In that case I would like to see a matrix-like slowdown effect where the enemies slow to a crawl while the character does his greater cleave, and then the action returns to normal when the attack completes. It's not impossible to do, just takes some imaginative coding.

 

27. I don't miss this in the outdoor areas. It never made sense that I could stand on a hill and not be able to see clearly the entire forest below me. I'm all for indoor or subterranean fog of war, but not outdoor.

 

34. There are already several player-made UI mods (at NWNForge) that address this issue.

 

39. I only use the minimap as a compass so I know which way I'm traveling. The beta patch has disabled scenery from showing in this window so now all you see is your heading and points of interest, which is all that was useful to begin with. Use the automap for finding your location and the compass for getting your bearings.

 

40. Many of NWN's quests were of the FedEx "go get that for me" type, so yes the NPC would take the item from you. NWN2 doesn't do this very often, so you're left with quest items after the quest is completed. Dump them into a container somewhere when you're done with them, and move on.

 

43. NWN's camera wasn't perfect either, especially when it came to dialogs, but at least it let us move the camera around during the conversation. The beta patch improves NWN2's camera, and it will continue to get better. I've had no major problems with it in top-down mode.

 

44. NWN2's story stands on its own. It's linear, sure, and not as epic as NWN's "save the world" plots, but it's still fun to smite the bad guys and save the day.

 

50. Odd, NWN's OC gave away the plot the moment I met Desther. Very transparent and non-immersive, with characters who didn't react well, if at all, to changing world situations. HotU finally got it right, but after the fact. On the other hand, I enjoy most of NWN2's OC right out of the box.

 

Tony Evan's in Denial about fan reaction is a slap in the face.

That's typical PR for you. They'll never admit that someone (or a group of people) dislike their product. It's not good for sales. However, they certainly aren't ignorant of "sour grapes." I'll be happy as long as they continue to support their product, which they are presently doing.

 

Edit: damn tag count limitations; disables tags if there are too many of them, so I deleted what I was quoting and posted answers instead.

Edited November 25, 2006 by Wistrik

[roshan]

Riftworm:

 

You have a point, if youre talking about linearity within areas. NWN2's areas mostly have 1 path that you need to follow. I do not remember NWN1 well enough to make a comparison.

 

However in terms of the linearity of the gameworld, NWN1 was just like NWN2. Or at the very least, its expansion packs. I never played through the OC, I quit early on because it was the most boring gaming experience I have ever had

[Pidesco]

Yes, NWN1 is linear. Worse actually, because not only is it linear, but it's actually circular. It's "You must find the four objects. Go to special area. You must find the four objects. Go to special area. You must find the four objects. Go to special area. You're done."

[kormesios]

30) Remember how you could put everything you needed into your quickslots? For NWN2 Obsidian fancied hiding your combat modes in the far reaches of the bottom right of your monitor so much that they made good and sure you have to go there to find tiny combat mode buttons to switch, not intuitively in the middle where they belong in quickslots.

 

You can drag combat (and search, stealth, etc.) modes to your quickslot if you like. Open the skill/feat page and drag it to whatever location you want. You can even turn off the mode bar afterwards if you like. Takes less time to figure this out than it does to complain about it.

[roshan]

This is a campaign limitation, and it was stated before the game was released that the NWN2 OC was being designed for singleplayer.

 

If it was designed for single player, wouldnt it actually have been more non linear?

 

I miss NWN's vertex weighted tunics and armors, and hope that a future patch will add this functionality to NWN2. However I don't think it'll happen so long as armor is simply painted onto a model as a skin texture. NWN2 took a shortcut in this regard.

 

The character models and animations in NWN2 are simply terrible. Hopefully they can still overhaul it, but I fear that its already too late. Crap animations, the lack of vertex weighing and downright hideous (both in terms of aesthetics and graphics) player models is just something that we will have to live with.

 

I don't miss this in the outdoor areas. It never made sense that I could stand on a hill and not be able to see clearly the entire forest below me. I'm all for indoor or subterranean fog of war, but not outdoor.

 

I like the fact that there is no fog of war. The only thing bad about it is that it largely invalidates IE style scouting in stealth mode.

 

That's typical PR for you. They'll never admit that someone (or a group of people) dislike their product. It's not good for sales. However, they certainly aren't ignorant of "sour grapes." I'll be happy as long as they continue to support their product, which they are presently doing.

 

I find it disgusting that he is trying to sweep the sentiments of so many disappointed players under the carpet with his blatant, absurd lie.

[Riftworm]

They're assinine because they're demonstably false and hyperbolic.

 

Yet you've yet to demonstrate how they're "false". How can they be subjective opinions and false simultaneously?

 

Wow. Billions and billions of phantom posters on another forum? Were you trying to go somewhere other than Fallacy Town with that? Cause, as it is, a poor appeal to popularity doesn't bolster you.

 

No, not "Billions and Billions". Hundreds ..that aren't the phantoms you want them to be:

 

http://nwn2forums.bioware.com/forums/viewt...&forum=109&sp=0

 

http://nwn2forums.bioware.com/forums/viewt...&forum=109&sp=0

 

http://nwn2forums.bioware.com/forums/viewt...19407&forum=109

 

http://nwn2forums.bioware.com/forums/viewt...19407&forum=109

 

http://nwn2forums.bioware.com/forums/viewt...09&sp=0#4506002

 

http://nwn2forums.bioware.com/forums/viewt...14894&forum=109

 

I don't know, maybe your writ of opinions which you titled "50 Reasons NWN2 is worse than NWN1"? I'm glad to see we've progressed to the defensively obtuse portion of this game.

 

My opinions are combative? Where is the "attack"? Simply because you disagree doesn't make it an attack. Your insults that were moderator edited were though.

[alanschu]

22. Some claim it was to support the ultra-fast movements. In that case I would like to see a matrix-like slowdown effect where the enemies slow to a crawl while the character does his greater cleave, and then the action returns to normal when the attack completes. It's not impossible to do, just takes some imaginative coding.

 

This sounds like a cool idea at first, until you factor in the double cleave that the Frenzied Beserker gets. Couple that with Great Cleave, and if you're strong enough, it's entirely possible to kill every one around you in a single attack, and you'd end up having people watch half of the fights in slow motion matrix style. It would get old, very quick.

[Bokishi]

NWN 1 was boring as hell.

[Dark_Raven]

NWN 1 was boring as hell.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

LOL

[Riftworm]

NWN 1 was boring as hell.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Too bad the judges of 86 awards said differently.

 

http://nwn.bioware.com/about/awards.html

[alanschu]

Heh, I just realized that they count "finalists" as being awards on that list.

 

 

Black and White won a lot of awards too.

Edited November 25, 2006 by alanschu

[Wistrik]

22. Some claim it was to support the ultra-fast movements. In that case I would like to see a matrix-like slowdown effect where the enemies slow to a crawl while the character does his greater cleave, and then the action returns to normal when the attack completes. It's not impossible to do, just takes some imaginative coding.

 

This sounds like a cool idea at first, until you factor in the double cleave that the Frenzied Beserker gets. Couple that with Great Cleave, and if you're strong enough, it's entirely possible to kill every one around you in a single attack, and you'd end up having people watch half of the fights in slow motion matrix style. It would get old, very quick.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The other option is to increase the number of frames that can be rendered per unit of time, which this engine seems incapable of what with current performance issues. I'd make the Matrix view a toggle option for the fun of it.