Volourn's Wowwy Journey With NWN2:Spoiler Edition

[Spider]

I dont understand what happened to difficult battles in RPGS. Why dont developers design something that is actually challenging for the players anymore?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I think part of the answer lies in player experience. I've played enough D&D computer games by now that I have the mindset down in how to approach tougher fights. I have a decent grasps on what buffs and debuffs are good and so on. What I'm saying is that fights I found to be very difficult back in the BG1 days, I kinda laugh at now. I actually can't recall the last time I found a fight in any D&D game to really be challenging. Maybe something in ToEE, I'm not sure. Otherwise it must have been something in BG2.

 

What I'm saying is that someone who makes their first foray into computer D&D with NWN2 will probably find some of the fights plenty challenging. Bottom line, game companies wants people to actually be able to finish their games and making them challenging to veterans may go against that desire.

 

Hell, in order to make a D&D game actually challenging to me, they'd probably need to have encounters like those found in the BG2 tactics mod. But those would make newbies cry (some of them actually make me cry to this day). So fights of that difficulty is probably best avoided. Unless they're made completely optional (in regards to the main story) and plenty warning is given in-game. That could actually be kinda interesting.

[Darque]

Summons are awesome.

 

Especially the elemental ones.

 

They REALLY helped me out in the final battle as they can take a lot of punishment, and keep agro on themselves.

[Tigranes]

Eh? You musta used different summons than me. And, heck, I didn't use any 'debuffing' spells the entire game. Heck, i never bothered with them in any IE game for that matter. Do use them in NWN1 though, and I'm sure I will come various modules/PWs in NWN2.

 

BG2 was a mage battle-fest, and if you didn't use any debuff spells then you were a pretty crappy player. Granted, in vanilla BG2 you could still fight your way past with ze awesome loot you get and all, but with some of the harder and better mods out there, no way.

 

You're telling me you just slashed and pierced every stoneskin down instead of casting Breach? ROFL TOFL.

 

Hell, in order to make a D&D game actually challenging to me, they'd probably need to have encounters like those found in the BG2 tactics mod. But those would make newbies cry (some of them actually make me cry to this day). So fights of that difficulty is probably best avoid

 

I still maintain that the latest IB (I think) Torgal battle was impossible in Chapter 2. Just impossible. He regenerates at about 5hp a second and hits about 4 times a round oding 20-30 damage and.. yeah. It was like fighting 3 Ravagers at once.

[Deraldin]

I still maintain that the latest IB (I think) Torgal battle was impossible in Chapter 2. Just impossible. He regenerates at about 5hp a second and hits about 4 times a round oding 20-30 damage and.. yeah. It was like fighting 3 Ravagers at once.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Now that was a good fight. And it was doable in Chapter 2. Maybe not right at the beginning of chapter 2, but still doable at some point in that chapter. "

[Volourn]

"BG2 was a mage battle-fest, and if you didn't use any debuff spells then you were a pretty crappy player. Granted, in vanilla BG2 you could still fight your way past with ze awesome loot you get and all, but with some of the harder and better mods out there, no way. "

 

Crappy player? Why would I be a crappy player by not needing useless and overrated spells? The crappy players are the ones who were so dependent on one type of spell. R00fles!

 

 

"You're telling me you just slashed and pierced every stoneskin down instead of casting Breach? ROFL TOFL."

 

Absolutely. Breach is overrated.

[Wistrik]

I don't mind battles that are winnable with average characters who don't use all of their skills. If you want a challenge, get a console and a few fighting games. <_< D&D does feature combat as part of the rules, but role-playing is supposed to take the lead.

[roshan]

Fighting games have combat based on reflexes. Role playing games should have combat based on strategy and statistics. Telling roleplayers to go and play fighting games is silly.

Edited November 21, 2006 by roshan

[Volourn]

"don't mind battles that are winnable with average characters who don't use all of their skills."

 

Eh? So I'm a horrible role-player because I don't NEED to use a certain spell to win a battle? LMAO

 

I think the idea that one doens't have to use one specific strategy to win a fight is a GOOD thing. If there's only one way to win a fight than I think the battle was poorly made in most cases.

Edited November 21, 2006 by Volourn

[Wistrik]

You read too much into my post Volourn, I wasn't calling anyone a horrible roleplayer. I like this game because combat can be avoided in several areas, unlike other CRPGs that are more like Diablo (mindless hack-n-slash) than a D&D game; and what combat there is, it is manageable without relying on specific builds, skills, and items.

 

There can only be so much in the way of tactics and strategy in a real-time combat scenario where everything's rushing to get in your face. D&D was meant for turn-based combat on a game board or similar (SSI's Gold Box series was more true to the rules in this respect than any modern D&D CRPG). If someone's complaining about fight difficulty, they strike me as the usual "combat is everything" player, so telling them to play a fighting game instead isn't silly, just a practical suggestion to help them avoid more frustration caused by yet another easy battle.

 

As the tutorial portion of the game can show, party characters are usually a cut above the average person in Faerun, so it shouldn't come as any surprise if a coordinated group of skilled characters happens to mop the floor with Bad Guy #1 and his goons. I could understand the complaining if you did this with a level 0 villager and his chickens, but this is not the case.

 

Rest assured, however, that sooner or later someone who values fighting above all else will produce a mod that increases combat difficulty by at least a magnitude, then all those who cry foul can experience their beatings with great joy and many tears of happiness.

[Volourn]

"they strike me as the usual "combat is everything" player, so telling them to play a fighting game instead isn't silly, just a practical suggestion to help them avoid more frustration caused by yet another easy battle."

 

Absolutely ridiculousness. NWN2 has a lot of combat, and since the majority of the game is combat focused; eveyrone has the right to complain about the challnege level of combat. To sya that because it is a role-playing combat doens't mean much is absolutely ridiculous and so if you complain about combat you should go play a 'fighting game' is just plain foolish and missing the point.

 

You sound like the PST fanboys when people complain that PST's was a joke espciially compared to other IE games. PST has a lot of combat and therefore its combat should be judged as part of the experience.

 

Same, and espicially when NWN2. Combat plays a big role in the experience and therefore combat is very much able of being judged since its a huge part of the gaming experience.

 

 

[Darque]

"You're telling me you just slashed and pierced every stoneskin down instead of casting Breach? ROFL TOFL."

 

Absolutely. Breach is overrated.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I don't think I've ever used that spell.

 

Didn't see a point.

 

If you hit something hard enough, eventually it'll drop

[alanschu]

I remember using breach pretty much all the time. Even when my guys had +5 Carsomyrs and whatnot.

[Darque]

Hammers do not need breach

[Deraldin]

I remember using breach pretty much all the time.  Even when my guys had +5 Carsomyrs and whatnot.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I used breach all the time, because without it your mages have to whittle away at the enemy's spell mantles before they can actually do anything. Unlike fighters they don't have an unlimited number of whacks at those spell shields though...

[Darque]

That's why Dual Classing is the best.

 

Fighter/Mages can take anything. :cool:

[alanschu]

Well, my sword's ability to Dispel Magic on hit was rather awesome.

 

Magic Missile was the mirror image destroyer.

[roshan]

"they strike me as the usual "combat is everything" player, so telling them to play a fighting game instead isn't silly, just a practical suggestion to help them avoid more frustration caused by yet another easy battle."

 

Absolutely ridiculousness. NWN2 has a lot of combat, and since the majority of the game is combat focused; eveyrone has the right to complain about the challnege level of combat.  To sya that because it is a role-playing combat doens't mean much is absolutely ridiculous and so if you complain about combat you should go play a 'fighting game' is just plain foolish and missing the point.

 

You sound like the PST fanboys when people complain that PST's was a joke espciially compared to other IE games. PST has a lot of combat and therefore its combat should be judged as part of the experience.

 

Same, and espicially when NWN2. Combat plays a big role in the experience and therefore combat is very much able of being judged since its a huge part of the  gaming experience.

 

 

       

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

PST had decent combat. It was exactly the same as the combat in BG1.

[Volourn]

No, it was worse. It was one dimensional. Spellcasters were an absolute joke comapred to BG1. The game had you fighting demons, and nothing the demons did was impressive.

 

PST had the same combat SYSTEM as BG1; but it's combat was different.

[Dark_Raven]

Magical missile is the best low end spell there is. Even at high levels it still rules.

[Wistrik]

"they strike me as the usual "combat is everything" player, so telling them to play a fighting game instead isn't silly, just a practical suggestion to help them avoid more frustration caused by yet another easy battle."

 

Absolutely ridiculousness. NWN2 has a lot of combat, and since the majority of the game is combat focused; eveyrone has the right to complain about the challnege level of combat.  To sya that because it is a role-playing combat doens't mean much is absolutely ridiculous and so if you complain about combat you should go play a 'fighting game' is just plain foolish and missing the point.

 

You sound like the PST fanboys when people complain that PST's was a joke espciially compared to other IE games. PST has a lot of combat and therefore its combat should be judged as part of the experience.

 

Same, and espicially when NWN2. Combat plays a big role in the experience and therefore combat is very much able of being judged since its a huge part of the  gaming experience.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'm no PST fanboy; I disliked that game on the whole and stopped playing it after about an hour. Thankfully I hadn't paid for it.

 

I know that most CRPGs are mainly combat simulators, but at least NWN2 lets me avoid some battles through skillful dialog, which is an improvement. I didn't say nobody had the right to complain, I only suggested they find another game to play if this one doesn't make them happy.

 

Take a deep breath...

Edited November 21, 2006 by Wistrik

[Tigranes]

Crappy player? Why would I be a crappy player by not needing useless and overrated spells? The crappy players are the ones who were so dependent on one type of spell. R00fles!

 

Actually, that just means I use every kind of spell available in my arsenal to defeat the enemy. You, for some random reason, refuse to use one type and therefore limit yourself, because breach spells are extremely useful.

 

Again, though, they weren't really needed in vanilla because it was so easy you could just hit people with a club and they'd die eventually.

 

But, Volo, I assume when the enemy fired a chain contingency with Protection from Magical Weapons, Pro. from Normal Weapons and Spell Mantle, you just sat there twiddling your thumbs until it wore out.

 

PST had less than decent combat, but I could live through it.

[Darque]

PST had decent combat. It was exactly the same as the combat in BG1.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

PST's combat was weaker than BG1's.

 

It might have been the same format, but the playing area was smaller, so you had less room to move that made spell combat and ranged combat trickier... and in some cases pointless.

[Pop]

PST had decent combat. It was exactly the same as the combat in BG1.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

PST's combat was weaker than BG1's.

 

It might have been the same format, but the playing area was smaller, so you had less room to move that made spell combat and ranged combat trickier... and in some cases pointless.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

There was no ranged combat in PST Nor was there armor, nor any reasonable selection of weapons (fist, knives, clubs, hammers, axes)

 

You play PST for the RPing.

[Darque]

Sounds like someone didn't use Nordom.

 

Or did you think that crossbow was for show?

[Dark_Raven]

Play PST for total boredom.

 

 

I am wondering if I should finish my first game. So close, yet so far away. Too many thing happen that I miss or didn't do right which has left me unsatisfied. That red dragon battle was a wake up call. My character sucks. My stronghold sucks, I missed too many thing that should have been done before Act 3 began. I haven't spent a good amount of time with the npcs. Blah, blah..........