KotoR 3: Ideas, Suggestions, Discussion

[Xard]

I won't read that looooooong post, but I already know Architect has the best possible way to handle Revan/Exile

 

For me it was quite clear after cracking the puzzle of True Sith (my first posts in this forums are about that. Ah, good times, writing like a noob with u r etc. ((Well, I came here like in any other generic gaming forum where cuz, lol u r etc. are used all the time. The fact it was "noob" in here shocked me to some degree. Gaming forums normally aren't very intelligent. Well, I adapted quickly ))) that:

 

A: What Revan is doing is causing civil war among True Sith, thus delaying their onslaught

B: Revan must "fall" back to DS, since without coldness and cruelty you can't wage brutal war among TS and survive with them.

C: Exile will ultimately have to adapt same Jack Bauer/Ammon Jerro/Dirty Harry aka Punisher way of thinking when in TS regions. "To defeat Evil, you must become Evil"

D: This resolves problems with many different aligments of Revan and Exile

E: You could give Exile some kind of "cool armor" just like Revan has. This would resolve problems with many different appereances.

F: Now you would only need four voice actors, two for males, two for females. Also making Revan/Exile act in Punisher way would reduce problems with different dialogues. Otherwise you would have to spend terrible amount of resources for own dialogue tree for each aligment. Besides that would propably just suck, since they would propably be only like "Hi, I'm goodie goodie Revan, let's go hug some trees!" and "I'm stoopid baddie eeeexiil, get outta my way, lolz".

G: It also resolves Kreia's words why LS Revan/Exile must go alone and leave all their loved ones behind. Just how exactly you're going to to burn down cities with full of innocent people if you have to, when you some e. g. Bastila on your side? That would indeed be doom for LS Bastila loving Revan, since he couldn't do that then. Same with other romances/genders combos.

H: Punisher Revan/Exile would also resolve problem with cooperation between e. g LS Revan and DS Exile

 

I could continue but you should get the picture why Revan/Exile must be somewhat DS

 

Xard the Wonderful

Edited January 6, 2007 by Xard

[Plano Skywalker]

that would indeed wrap everything up nicely storywise but where does it leave the PC? polishing Revan's boots?

 

no, Revan provides in the intel (True Sith have some vulnerability) and Exile goes and rounds up the Lost Jedi and reforms the Council.

 

the PC saves the day.

 

Revan is flexible, Exile is LSF and it all fits nicely with canon (which will be an important factor, to be sure).

[Xard]

Since we don't know crap about non-existant k3's plot, we really can't say much about PC.

 

One scenario: In some part of the game (maybe in the very beginning, maybe later on letting in the beginning PC wandering freely and doing more minor quests before main plot kicks in, maybe in halfway etc.) Revan and Exile have done all they could do delay TS. However, now the civil war has ended and TS have united under one banner, banner of the main baddie.

 

Punisher Revan/Exile hurry back in knonwn space to warn unsuspecting Galaxy. Maybe beginning part of game could be PC trying to find traces of Revan/Exile but not finding them. Then they sudddenly pop in middle of everything but no one believes them. Then PC must find a proof of TS's plan (since only some believe Revan/Exile, like fleet under Carth's command for example) but he fails and war against true sith begins.

 

Well, there's too many scenarios. But Exile/Revan will have minor roles in actual game. Revan propably leads ragtag Republic/Sith Forces fleets and is main Admiral/Marshal/Leader of War Effort, one who would give main missions for PC. Revan has his/her hands full with war itself, no time to do rat killing missions.

 

Exile role would propably be something similar to Revan, maybe leader of Special Jedi/Sith task force?

 

To give bad contradiction: In any case it's PC who ultimately kills baddie. Revan is like admiral Ackbar/Lando in RotJ, Exile is like Han Solo, leading his strike team in something and PC is ultimately Luke who finish off baddie.

 

Bad comparison and it sucks, but you get the idea.

 

Even though Revan can have big role in game it doesn't mean he have to single handely save the galaxt, neither must exile. They both have done that at least once already

 

Revan's role could also be simillar to Admiral Dodonna's in k1 LS ending.

 

Another bad comparisson but... *shrugs*

 

And of course game might as well take place in UR. In there PC could join Revan's/Exile's faction in civil war.

Edited January 6, 2007 by Xard

[Plano Skywalker]

the problem is not with Revan being some maverick Admiral, the problem is Exile being either 1) another Nihilius or 2) a sidekick of Revan that you never hear from in-game.

 

Exile does need to be given a prominent role and I think rebuilding the Order (while PC is running missions for Revan) is an excellent role for Exile. Exile could even be controllable at certain segments of the game.

[Dark Wastl]

A: What Revan is doing is causing civil war among True Sith, thus delaying their onslaught

B: Revan must "fall" back to DS, since without coldness and cruelty you can't wage brutal war among TS and survive with them.

C: Exile will ultimately have to adapt same Jack Bauer/Ammon Jerro/Dirty Harry aka Punisher way of thinking when in TS regions. "To defeat Evil, you must become Evil"

D: This resolves problems with many different aligments of Revan and Exile

 

If they go for the Civil War scenario, then yes, that might be the best choice. But then again, as the architect said, developers are creative. They will find different solutions to the alignment-question, some of them so far out that no one here will have come close to having thought about them.

 

For that reason, the Civil War scenario isn't a necessity. I'd prefer other solutions anyway

[Xard]

Civil War is really only working scenario.

 

But how Exile could rebuild jedi order while in UR? It was work to be done for LS Exile's party members and Disciple's/Handmaiden's & hiding jedis job to be done if Exile is DS.

 

Developers are creative, yes, but civil war is only reasonable solution.

 

Revan and Exile waging alone war against propably millions true siths and their vast empire? C'mon...

 

Setting R's and E's aligment is only way to save resources. Making 4 completely different characters, creating their dialogue trees, voice acting them etc. is huge money/time consumer.

 

Unlike from LS to "DS" (Punisher) there isn't any real reason to DS Revan/Exile to suddenly to turn into LS.

 

Personally I believe both Revan/Exile must be killed in game.

[theslug]

Killing off revan and exile would be such a horrible cop out unless it was our character who was the one murdering them, but I'd still like the chance to turn them to the light side and receive an appropriate amount of xp and items when doing so.

 

Which leads me to think that if you make a choice like killing revan and exile you would have some serious consequences within the game but you would receive some serious presents in compensation. It would be nice if you were faced with real issues and decisions in game that would effect you and your group along with the rest of the world indefinitely.

Edited January 6, 2007 by theslug

[Xard]

Umm, there's no reason to redeem them since they aren't really bad guys. They're just Punisher type.

 

I think putting PC to kill either Revan or Exile would not be wise. However they should be killed for plot reasons.

[Guest The Architect]

Well, here comes another mammoth post. As OPG would say, K first off theslug, here

Edited January 7, 2007 by The Architect

[Darth Mortis]

There are a number of hints (?) dropped during KOTOR 2 that could give the developers a way to explain what the Exile and Revan have been doing.

 

The first is that the Sith had many hidden bases, and that the Republic was unlikely to have found al of them. The second is that Revan was corrupting the Jedi he captured by taking them somewhere. While it could be assumed that the place in question was Malacor IV, it is also possible that Revan was taking them to a place where he could show them the true threat that faced the Republic.

 

Both of these could be used to say that not all of the forces Revan had at his disposal were being used against the Republic. Some could have been used to set up training camps outside known space, creating a second force who's ultimate job was to fight the threat Revan had seen;

 

The Exile; Well, the Exile was one of the best generals Revan had under his command. It wouldn't be beyond reason for Revan to have charged the Exile with the task of building this second army up and getting it ready to fight the threat. If this is the case the Exile would probably be keeping an eye on the Republic, feeding information back to Revan as to the Rebublics ability to defend itself if attacked. If Revan needed help, or another powerful force user turned up (The Player) then the Exile would be the first important person the player would meet if they are looking for Revan.

 

Revan; As has been said, the idea of Revan facing this threat on his/her own is stretching things. What wouldn't be much of a stretch is to imagine that Reven took a small force with him/her to buy time for the Exile and Rebublic to build up their forces. If Revan is encountered then any missions he/she gives the player could be hit and run disruption tactics against important targets while Revan pulls back and gets ready for the big battle.

[Sturm]

The thing is with this Civil War idea is that how is Revan, and LS Exile if he is going to help Revan, how are they going to amass an army to large enough conquer, thwart or just kill off all these true Sith? I doubt that Revan would want to go all the way back, and tell the Republic where these true Sith are, maybe he will for some aid, but then depending on when this is set, do you think that the Republic will acctually be strong enough to aid assistance, or is this going to turn into a ww2, how a small band of American troops take out a whole German SS division (as pictured in biast American movies ) Anyways, it was 5 or so years between K1, and K2 I think, and the Republic didnt build back up to full strength.

 

Or it could sort of turn into another KotOR1, how Revan snuck under Malak's nose and killed off all that was sent to him, and personally killing Malak and potentially taking the whole Sith army into his hands, maybe that could happen instead of a civil war, where Revan, and perhaps Exile kill off whoever is in charge, the leader, the True Sith Lord and from then on turn into a "take the army and attack the Republic " scenario, or something else.

[Xard]

Revan is not Revan before K1, but (s)he neither is Revan in K1's ending. He's mixture of those two.

 

"The unfound sith bases" referred to Malachor V and K2's plot.

 

And to explain Civil War idea further: After Revan manages to start Civil War (it should not be very hard, remembering how sith are and Revan is genius and mastermind) all he has to now do is rise in ranks of one civil war's faction (families? Planets? Solar systems? Cults? Brotherhoods? It doesn't matter what kind of these "factions" exactly are) and finally seize control of it.

 

Revan being one of the srongest force users ever, tactical genius and master commander he is formidable size in conflict. Creating alliances, broking alliances, destroying factions etc. wouldn't be too hard for him.

 

Of course whole game might take place in Unknown Regions. We don't know anything actual plot. We are merely speculating what happens BEFORE beginning of K3.

 

It's never said Revan/Exile will be able to destroy True Sith, what they are doing is buying more time. It's totally different thing than triumphing over them.

 

Actually (unlike Revan's) Exile's traits as general are never found out. (S)he was another jedi in the bunch until Malachor V.

 

Even though my Revan/Exile are lightsiders canonical characters are no-no for me.

 

Besides, Obz started to drift away from generic good guys and bad guys theme of SW in K2, I see no reason why they would not continue it further.

 

Thus neither Revan or Exile are Lightsider or Darksiders. Well, they ARE propably "lightside" but Punisher type. Whole aligment thing goes silly when characters come more complex than good fella and evil jerk.

 

Revan's case is easy: He isn't Revan of K1's ending, no matter what is he's aligment. His old memories are back, so is much of his personality. Of course your aligment in K1 should somewhat influence minor things (like certain conversations/points of views in certain situations) but mostly he's different from K1. We have to remember Kreia never considered Revan as darksider. Thus he would be "redeemed" if player was heavily DS in K1. If player was heavily LS he would get closer to DS because of old Revan's "evil" methods.

 

As you can see whole aligment thing is silly.

 

Same goes for Exile, since Kreia says in end of K2 "you are not jedi/sith, not truly"

 

Meh, I'm rambling. Such a minor and stupid thing as aligment is causing so much trouble.

[Plano Skywalker]

OK, OK, I'm not going to try to address everything mentioned right now, but, the REAL QUESTION is "just who are the True Sith?".

 

I agree, that if we are talking about Kreia and Malak types, the civil war idea is fine. But, remember, Revan essentially started that Sith order.

 

No, I believe the True Sith are these guys:

 

 

and that changes everthing. Revan is not going to start a civil war among them.

They are the ones who have been playing both sides all along.

[theslug]

They look pretty.......anti climactic lol. I mean the dude in the middle is kind of a hard ass i guess but revan would probably rape him irl with his light saber and not some out dated barbaric claymore.

 

I don't know anything about star wars lore or anything like that so yeah thats a good point about the true sith being some alternative race.

[Plano Skywalker]

They look pretty.......anti climactic lol.  I mean the dude in the middle is kind of a hard ass i guess but revan would probably rape him irl with his light saber and not some out dated barbaric claymore. 

 

I don't know anything about star wars lore or anything like that so yeah thats a good point about the true sith being some alternative race.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

some might argue that the Sith race died out in previous wars. while this is true to a point, there are certain factions of the ancient Sith whose fate was never accounted for in the comics.

 

also, Exar Kun (just some 40 years before the time of Revan) had Massassi bodyguards (Massassi is an elite warrior sect of the Sith). IIRC, Kun did turn on his Massassi but some could have escaped.

 

anyway, there are ways to bring these guys back that do not contradict EU continuity and I suspect that is who the True Sith will end up being.

[Guest The Architect]

But that

Edited January 7, 2007 by The Architect

[DAWUSS]

Maybe there's a bunch of "Sith Lords" that are actually phonies?

 

 

 

(They probably act as if they were made from a cookie-cutter template)

[DeathScepter]

Regardless of PC,

 

 

a good story is needed.

 

 

 

 

 

I would not be surprised if there are people that would want the Exile or Revan as their PC again.

 

 

 

 

 

To me, having one more superpowered PC in the same timespan.

 

 

 

Having two superpowered PCs is enough for my taste,

 

 

 

 

From the top of my head: Too many cook spoil the broth.

 

 

 

 

 

Same damn principle applies to the NEW guy that is an uber powerful Jedi.

 

 

 

Sidious was around lvl 20 in the Return of the Jedi and Vader was a lvl 17.

 

They were consider very powerful in the Force.

 

 

a Lvl 21 or over character outside of Revan or Exile might make me, thinking seriously going DS first time around with the NEW PC character.

 

 

 

but I will buy Kotor 3 and love it just the same as Kotor 1 and 2.

[Kyrivian]

Maybe add in some Politics to Kotor III. Not half-done politics, but real, honest to god politics.

 

Kotor III starts as a new character, yep. You star as either a Republic, or Sith representative, with Jedi/ Sith powers or not, *It's your choice* and it goes from there.

 

Just my little ideas, as they are.

[Sturm]

Yeah, the whole thing of a 3rd PC is puzzling, you see the last 2 PC's we had, all had some special thing that made them incredibly powerful, Revan was a Sith Lord, a tactical genius, incredibly powerful in the force, and the Exile was a wound in the force, almost impossible to defeat. How can the 3rd PC match this stuff, having another as powerful character would make it just stupid, maybe instead of a whole new person we start off as an old party member from either KotOR1 or KotOR2, or we have a Jedi or Sith that already has a build, but we have to expand on it as we level up.

[DeathScepter]

i was wondering.

 

 

Lets Say Revan or the Exile were coming back.

 

 

How would you A) de level them without mindwipes and B) spice them up so the Veterans and newbies can enjoy either of them.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Sidenote: I do think concerning the Last two games heroes actions.

 

 

A Character Creation questionaire. Basicly It will help the veterans to decide if their character did what and romance whom.

 

Also it will help the Newbie in what in the hell going on.

[Guest The Architect]

Another reason why Revan and the Exile rapidly increased their force connection in KotOR and TSL is because they had both used the force prior to the events that occurred in the games.

 

Anyway, I did discuss the problem you

Edited January 8, 2007 by The Architect

[Xard]

I thought problem of True Sith has been cracked long, long time ago.

 

There's only ONE working and good answer for it: True Sith Empire was established by Ludo Kressh's armys remnants yadda yadda

 

I'm not going to say same thing for at least for 100. time, geez. <_<

 

I know this sounds ****y, but that is only answer for it if Obz won't go against whole EU-canon (which they won't do).

 

And new PC is MUST, you have to remember not everyone (from potential customers) have played previous kotors, besides they're going to have their own personalities (unless there's some lame memory wipe plot. I doubt Obz would go that low) which kills roleplay. New PC is must for roleplayers too. They want to craft their very own characters. Not to mention Exile/Revan would be seriously overpowered for game characters

[Plano Skywalker]

And new PC is MUST, you have to remember not everyone (from potential customers) have played previous kotors, besides they're going to have their own personalities (unless there's some lame memory wipe plot. I doubt Obz would go that low)  which kills roleplay. New PC is must for roleplayers too. They want to craft their very own characters. Not to mention Exile/Revan would be seriously overpowered for game characters

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I agree that a new PC is a must but I also agree that 3 chefs in the kitchen is one too many.

 

And, indeed, how would you even explain why this n00b is being asked to go to the Unknown Regions to look for Revan? I think the only viable answer is that the PC is a blood relative of Revan (cousin, whatever) and has been having dreams/nightmares about this man he has never met.

 

Come to find out, Revan and the PC share a Force Bond (ouch, I know, but consider the story we are in and how it has been told thus far) and that, because of this connection, the PC is confident he can find Revan even though no one has any idea where, exactly, he is.

 

With the PC being a blood relative, this still makes it Revan's Saga. Just as Anakin fulfilled the Sith'ari prophecy vicariously though his son, Revan beats the True Sith vicariously through a blood relative.

 

Revan could die or be caught in some sort of anamoly that could set up future games. Revan cannot become just another Master walking and talking. Exile can.

 

Like it or not, Revan has become the all-purpose plot device for the forseeable future.

[Xard]

We don't have to bother our minds with that, developers surely come up with good story for PC