Remember FALLOUT!

[greylord]

"all the BI games personally BG2 is my favorite (though I know some think BG is better)"

 

From you post, I'm sure you mean BIS in which case, you are wrong. BIS no more made BG series than Atari made TOEE, or NWN. BIO made BG series. BIS, on behalf of their parent company, only published it. That's not dissing BIS, btw, as they did a very good job publishing it. Just a pet peeve of mine when people try to give BSI credit for BIO's work. It's just as bad when people try to give BIo credit for PST, or IWD which werne';t made by BIO and are just using an engine made by BIO.

 

 

Graphics Topic: Alanshu wins at 95.678% correct. Good job, Alanshu! :cool:

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

????

 

Whatever.

 

There's no way he can tell me what my opinion is...duh...

 

On the matter of my opinion I'm 100% correct, and those trying to tell me my opinion is different should go take a shot of whiskey and start reflecting on why they think they want to be me and know more about my opinions then myself.

 

On the Bis/Bioware thing, you know...you're right.

 

But when I look at the IE games, I lump them all together. And Plus, yes I do consider NWN and TOEE Atari games as well...which still fits into your argument.

 

From what I understand however, BIS had quite a bit of say on the products whilst Bio was developing them that went into the BG series. I think they both worked together and worked together well on all the projects enough for me to have the opinion (there's that word again) that they worked more closely and in better unison than Atari and any company does.

 

It was because of this unison that BIS was even able to come out with the IWD series and PS:T. In my opinion.

[Dark_Raven]

Now, now easy on Volo. He's a good lad at times, sometimes his logic fails him.

 

BIS had a minor role in the BG games, IWD and PST was the reverse.

Edited September 20, 2006 by Dark_Raven

[Volourn]

"From what I understand however, BIS had quite a bit of say on the products whilst Bio was developing them that went into the BG series. I think they both worked together and worked together well on all the projects enough for me to have the opinion (there's that word again) that they worked more closely and in better unison than Atari and any company does."

 

BIS was the publisher. They had as much say as all publishers do. btw, I'm not discrediting BIS for their role on the Bg series. They did a very good job as publisher, and should be reccommended for that. But, they didn't make BG series.

 

 

"that they worked more closely and in better unison than Atari and any company does."

 

Yet... BIO's combination with Atari in releasing NWN led to BIO's most successful game - NWN.

 

 

"He's a good lad at times, sometimes his logic fails him."

 

Lad? I'm no lad. And, my logic is unstoppable.

 

 

P.S. Graphics are important. Anyone who thinks it isn't is fooling themselves. i used to think graphics meant nothing. I was wrong as well. Graphics aren't neccessarily the most important aspect of a agme ( think it isn't); but it does play an important role espicially in first impressions and we know what is said about first impressions.

Edited September 20, 2006 by Volourn

[greylord]

You should add in your opinion.

 

Best sellers that did NOT match up graphically to other games being released...

 

NWN (Yep, atrocious graphics compared to the status quo...oh what's that...major seller???)

 

World of Warcraft (Yep, graphics are even down to lower end cards faaaaar below what was being released...what's that...major seller???)

 

The Sims (had terrible graphics up to when it was replaced by Sims 2 and still was always at the top of the list...hmm...how did that happen).

 

PS2 (less powerful than the Xbox and especially the Xbox 360 but worldwide is far more popular by almost 10+ to 1 margin and greater???) (we'll see what happens with the PS3 of course)

 

So, in your opinion graphics play a major part, just like in my opinion, it's the gameplay...and THAT'S why those games above did well...not because they in any way were eye candy...bling bling.

Edited September 20, 2006 by greylord

[Volourn]

Which games had good or bad or ok graphics is a matter of your opinion. I found both NWN, and the PS2 console had graphics that matched up with any other game from their timeline. I don't care for either WOW or the Sims so i cna't comment.

 

I'd take NWN's 'blocky' graphics over MW's poo poo graphics.

 

I'd take PS2's graphics being the equal of the xbox any day of the week.

[Kelverin]

You should add in your opinion.

 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Not needed. Everyone would need to put that in every post they write. Everything is in our own opinion.

[alanschu]

And I'd counter argue and say that the actual GAME ENTHUSAISTS (and yes, you could call us nerds) which are probably a minority, can STILL see the good graphics of the games.

 

Unfortunately game enthusiasts likely make up a rather insignificant part of the market. If they made up a larger share, then we'd have more games that didn't have gee-whiz bang graphics. Even then, I'd still wager there is a fair share of game enthusiasts that have found it hard to get into a game with heavily outdated graphics. Heck, I'm one of them. I'm a giant fan of the 2nd trilogy of the Ultima games (as well as the Ultima 7 games), but I find it hard to pick up and try playing the original Ultima games, despite their critical acclaim.

 

 

And I disagree that games like NWN, WoW, and The Sims had horrible graphics.

 

As you say, it's all about relative to the times. Especially considering graphics can be mitigated by art style (which is a huge bonus to a game like WoW).

 

Furthermore, you're not really arguing anything significant. Not surprisingly, games that are fun are the big sellers. But those games were being sold compared to other games. How well would a NWN looking game do today, especially when going up against NWN2?

 

If graphics are as unimportant as you seem to be making them out to be, why did Obsidian completely rewrite the graphics engine for NWN2? Why were there engine changes for KOTOR and KOTOR 2 from the original NWN engine?

 

Furthermore, why were games like Fallout not even really that great of a seller in its own right? I agree that the game is phenomenal, but clearly there was something that stopped it from making significant sales. It couldn't all just be a lack of advertising or some other unfortunate circumstances. There are other posts by people I would probably consider game enthusiasts in this thread alone, as well as scattered throughout this forum, of people that upon playing Fallout for the first time recently aren't all that impressed by it.

[Jorian Drake]

I remember when I picked up Fallout 1. Was a strange sensation, wandering around and doing stuff you never did in the other games (shooting people in the back just because you COULD DO IT.)

 

 

 

Ah, the good days...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That and snipping them from afar.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yes, and that with an Improved Plasma Rifle, right into an eye

[metadigital]

[M]y logic is unstoppable ... I was wrong as well.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[Volourn]

You can have unstoppable logic, and have an opinion you later deem to be 'wrong'.

 

And, don't argue. My logic is unstoppable, afterall. :D

[metadigital]

:Darque:

[6 Foot Invisible Rabbit]

You go on about MW "poo poo graphics" yet when Bethesda fixes that in Oblivion you won't even try it out. HA! Sounds a bit hypocritical. Bsides there are texture mods that improve Morrowind's textures and meshes. I haven't really seen to much of that on NWN except for one city tile set.

[Volourn]

Eh. The ES series has had numerous chances to get me to enjoy their games. MW was actually the first one I bought (my brother had a collection of the earlier ES games ala DF).

 

And, oh, I'm not disputing that Oblivion has improved graphicalluy from MW. From screenshots/videos, it surely doesn't look like 'poo poo' anymore. However, that doesn't change the fact that from a ll accounts it is still a huge soulless world, with .5 horses, a horrible 'dialogue' system, and so on so forth.

 

Like I've said ebfore, I'll buy Oblvion when the price drops significantly (around $20 Kanadian); not before. That's the only amount of money I'm willing to risk on that franchise.

[6 Foot Invisible Rabbit]

How do you know its a soulless world? Have you played it? As for the dialog system, except for the lame arse persuasion mini game, it is far improved since Morrowind. Of course that doesn't take a whole lot. The OC is better written than the NWN OCs that is for sure.

Edited September 20, 2006 by 6 Foot Invisible Rabbit

[metadigital]

It may not be as popular with others, but the persuasion mini-game is in fact a meta-game ("flatter" instead of actually selecting the flattery, etc).

 

Nice innovation, even if it isn't as popular as it may have been.

 

I didn't think it was that bad, personally.

[6 Foot Invisible Rabbit]

It was freaking terrible.

[metadigital]

Well, I think it was a good idea ... maybe it could have been implemented better, but it wasn't awful: certainly adds a bit of depth to the usual selection answer options "1, 2, 5, 2, 4, ..." etc

[6 Foot Invisible Rabbit]

No, it doesn't add depth. It makes the Speechcraft skill useless.

[Volourn]

"The OC is better written than the NWN OCs that is for sure."

 

Now, I know youa re making stuff up. This is Bethesda we're discussing. They don't know how to write dialogue. Their skill is in making large empty worlds where you can go everywhere; not meaningful dialogue.

 

Heck, even the biggest fanboys of Bethesda don't usually defend ES games by defending the quality of dialogue. At least the wise ones don't.

 

 

[6 Foot Invisible Rabbit]

And the dialogue in NWN was meaningful? HAHAHAHAHA!

 

Good one, Volourn.

 

There was actual dialog in Oblivion, Volourn, that had has much depth and meaning found in NWN.

Edited September 20, 2006 by 6 Foot Invisible Rabbit

[Volourn]

One small dialogue in NWN OC had more meaning, and depth, and quality than anything found in any ES game.

 

Mother with children who were murdered. That's all that is needed to know.

 

Game over in this NWN vs. Oblivion Dialogue Wars tm.

 

 

P.S. Heck, i'd wager justa dialogue by a whiney beggar in the city of NW over the plague had more emotion and depth to it than any dialogue found in Oblivion.

 

LOLOLOLOLOLOLLIPOP

Edited September 20, 2006 by Volourn

[6 Foot Invisible Rabbit]

If you say so, Volourn. Too each their own but I found the dialog in NWN no better than what I found in Morrowind or Oblivion. We just have to agree to disagree.

[Volourn]

Damn. If you say so... I just have one question more... What's the fun in that?

 

 

[6 Foot Invisible Rabbit]

I don't see the point of arguing. You will not change my views and I won't change yours.

[Kelverin]

I don't see the point of arguing.  You will not change my views and I won't change yours.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

SHHHhh!!!!!!! Don't give the secret out, or you will ruin the internet.