The Pope vs. Mohammed

[Lare Kikkeli]

What they did was uncalled for and only shows how far behind much of Islamic society still is from the rest of the world.  Yes, it is the Muslims' fault for reacting so violently to just a few drawings lampooning Muhammad.

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It is a sacrilege to make a picture of Muhammed. Comparing it to making picture of Jesus is just totally misguided.

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I know that. Ever here of 'piss Christ'? That's sacrilege too. And yet, there still was not a violent global reaction to that.

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i liked the spermblood better. it was a good exhibition though.

[Kaftan Barlast]

There was a huge outrage due to "Piss Christ", from the US Christian right to the Orthodox church of Eastern Europe

[Lare Kikkeli]

What they did was uncalled for and only shows how far behind much of Islamic society still is from the rest of the world.  Yes, it is the Muslims' fault for reacting so violently to just a few drawings lampooning Muhammad.

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It is a sacrilege to make a picture of Muhammed. Comparing it to making picture of Jesus is just totally misguided.

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I know that. Ever here of 'piss Christ'? That's sacrilege too. And yet, there still was not a violent global reaction to that.

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i liked the spermblood better. it was a good exhibition though.

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it's actually called Blood and ****.

 

 

 

edit: hah, i can say sperm but i cant say ****.

Edited September 16, 2006 by Lare Kikkeli

[karka]

"Jesus is a second order prophet to the Muslims, as well. To a non-arab nationalist muslim, insulting Jesus is just as heinous as insulting the prophet. "

 

Really?  There's no proof of this.

 

 

Yes. Really. Hey, i am from Turkey. I know such things

[Cantousent]

There was a huge outrage due to "Piss Christ", from the US Christian right to the Orthodox church of Eastern Europe

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...And I'm sure that the massive uprising of Christians rooted you out of your home.

 

Christians protest in defense of their beliefs? The "outrage!" In a free society, all people are promised the right to voice outrage. What they denied is the right to commit or advocate violence. Christians who advocate or enact violence are censured, fined, or even imprisoned for their offences.

 

Let's face it, if it weren't the pope... if it were some atheist who had made the innocuous commment... then many of the folks here wouldn't be attacking the speaker. Hell, some folks don't even care about the conflict between the religions at all and merely use this speech as one more opportunity to attack the Pope. Fair enough. As the representative of papal authority, the Pope is not an atheist. He is a Christian leader and so it is his lot to be held to a different standard because he claims a different standard.

 

Nevertheless, don't make any mistakes. I know you equate all religions with one another, but the example of Christian outrage at the "Piss Christ" exhibit led to a lot of angry words and the spilling of a flood of ink. What would have happened if the exhibit had been "Piss Muhammad?"

 

"Piss Christ" was a ridiculous and ugly display, but the artist had every right to create it. Although I balk at the thought of public monies going to such artists, they certainly have the right to fabricate such "art" without fear of violence or reprisal.

 

Ultimately, the Pope's problem isn't that he made an innocuous statement in the course of an academic speech. The problem is that he apologizes to a group of extremists who will only take his apology as a sign of weakness and then seek to leverage that weakness against him later.

[Craigboy2]

Muslim anger grows at Pope speech

 

Pope Benedict XVI in Freising, southern Germany

The Pope's comments came on a visit to Germany

A statement from the Vatican has failed to quell criticism of Pope Benedict XVI from Muslim leaders, after he made a speech about the concept of holy war.

 

Read the entire article

 

 

Alternative views:

http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/60F...3731B7F66EE.htm

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,213923,00.html

 

 

Each side, hardcore catholics and muslims, believe the other guys are wicked blashpemers who will burn in hell forever. Yet, one starts to whine when the other makes a tiny remark?

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"Both...pray to the same God; and each invokes his aid against the other.... The prayers of both could not be answered--that of neither has been answered fully."

Abraham Lincoln

16th president of US (1809 - 1865)

 

Good old Abe.

[julianw]

edit: hah, i can say sperm but i cant say ****.

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You can show your anger on the internet by calling someone a d1ck; calling him a sperm just doesn't make sense.

 

Great quote from craigboy2. The fact that Lincoln could have preached such love for all religion and humanity in the 1800s truly surprised me especially considering how little progress we have made thus far.

 

As for why the outrage from the Muslim community and the Christians seems so unbalanced. I guess one of factors would be that Christianity is the more dominant religion at the moment. When the Muslims were at the height of their power, it was the Christians who felt the need to defend their faith and waged the crusades.

[6 Foot Invisible Rabbit]

 

Islam is the fastest growing religion and within a decade will surpass Christianity.

[julianw]

Look at the big picture. Christians not only have more followers right now. They have overwhelming economic and military power. Considering how much influence Christian countries like US or Britain wield in the Middle East, how could you not see that Christianity is the dominant religion?

Edited September 16, 2006 by julianw

[Musopticon?]

I don't think Islam will overrun Christianity, but there's a whole lot of other major and minor religions to overrun for sure.

[6 Foot Invisible Rabbit]

There are estimated 2.1 billion Christians on this planet. The seond most populated religion is Islam at 1.6 billion. Islam is still growing as a religion while numbers of Christians are dropping.

 

http://www.adherents.com/Religions_By_Adherents.html

[Musopticon?]

For the record, I agree with the Pope. I do.

 

But whether voicing that kind of opinion on this day and age was exactlys ubtle and diplomatic move, well...let's just say that Pope Benedictus has a lto to learn. And probably not from Byzantine emperors.

 

Edit: @Hades: And what does that have to do with overrunning christianity? Muslims aren't exactly known for converting and calling the decrease of Christians and the increase of Muslims directly correspondant isn't wise, or true.

 

Heh, if it was true, I could see a huge wave of counter-conversion movements and pious reformations in the future. In fact, it would interesting geo- and credopolitical change to witness. Will Islam face a revolution, once the highly educated first world countried get overrun? Shall we have another Luther?

Edited September 16, 2006 by Musopticon?

[metadigital]

Islam has lots of Luthers: the Muslim structure has many scholars who interpet the Qur'an, which is why it is both foolish and completely wrong to make swingeing generalizations about Islam and Muslims.

[julianw]

Mus

Edited September 16, 2006 by julianw

[Pop]

Has it been pointed out that the concept of jihad was not concieved by Muhammmed? So for one, it was factually inaccurate for the Pope to compare the two.

[6 Foot Invisible Rabbit]

Also the largest Muslim population isn't in the Middle East. Its in Southeast Asia.

[Pop]

Also the largest Muslim population isn't in the Middle East.  Its in Southeast Asia.

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Yes, but the holy land is in the ME.

[metadigital]

Pies lesu domine

Dona eis requiem

[Hildegard]

Pies lesu domine

Dona eis requiem

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Eternal rest can only be achieved in death....here on earth you can only look for it but you won't find it...

Edited September 16, 2006 by Hildegard

[Colrom]

To really get in the spirit of things some of us may want to sing a song together.

 

"575. Onward, Christian Soldiers

Text: Sabine Baring-Gould, 1834-1924

Music: Arthur S. Sullivan, 1842-1900

Tune: ST. GERTRUDE, Meter: 65.65 D with Refrain

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

1. Onward, Christian soldiers, marching as to war,

with the cross of Jesus going on before.

Christ, the royal Master, leads against the foe;

forward into battle see his banners go!

Refrain:

Onward, Christian soldiers, marching as to war,

with the cross of Jesus going on before.

 

2. At the sign of triumph Satan's host doth flee;

on then, Christian soldiers, on to victory!

Hell's foundations quiver at the shout of praise;

brothers, lift your voices, loud your anthems raise.

(Refrain)

 

3. Like a mighty army moves the church of God;

brothers, we are treading where the saints have trod.

We are not divided, all one body we,

one in hope and doctrine, one in charity.

(Refrain)

 

4. Crowns and thrones may perish, kingdoms rise and wane,

but the church of Jesus constant will remain.

Gates of hell can never gainst that church prevail;

we have Christ's own promise, and that cannot fail.

(Refrain)

 

5. Onward then, ye people, join our happy throng,

blend with ours your voices in the triumph song.

Glory, laud, and honor unto Christ the King,

this through countless ages men and angels sing.

(Refrain) "

 

[Calax]

:starts a thumb war with himself:

 

 

One, Two, Three, Four! I declare a holy war!

[Dark Moth]

To really get in the spirit of things some of us may want to sing a song together.

 

"575. Onward, Christian Soldiers

Text: Sabine Baring-Gould, 1834-1924

Music: Arthur S. Sullivan, 1842-1900

Tune: ST. GERTRUDE, Meter: 65.65 D with Refrain

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

1. Onward, Christian soldiers, marching as to war,

with the cross of Jesus going on before.

Christ, the royal Master, leads against the foe;

forward into battle see his banners go!

Refrain:

Onward, Christian soldiers, marching as to war,

with the cross of Jesus going on before.

 

2. At the sign of triumph Satan's host doth flee;

on then, Christian soldiers, on to victory!

Hell's foundations quiver at the shout of praise;

brothers, lift your voices, loud your anthems raise.

(Refrain)

 

3. Like a mighty army moves the church of God;

brothers, we are treading where the saints have trod.

We are not divided, all one body we,

one in hope and doctrine, one in charity.

(Refrain)

 

4. Crowns and thrones may perish, kingdoms rise and wane,

but the church of Jesus constant will remain.

Gates of hell can never gainst that church prevail;

we have Christ's own promise, and that cannot fail.

(Refrain)

 

5. Onward then, ye people, join our happy throng,

blend with ours your voices in the triumph song.

Glory, laud, and honor unto Christ the King,

this through countless ages men and angels sing.

(Refrain) "

 

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"

Slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captives and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush. (Sura  9:5)

Honestly if you're going to make a point, don't use such pathetically weak examples. Even more, don't keep ignoring facts when they're repeatedly thrown at you. Though judging by your previous posts, I can see that's not much of a concern for you.

[Fionavar]

Okay I'm sensing derailment on the horizon - if it has not already occurred. Thanks for the general civility and respect herein. I'm liking it

 

Respectfully,

 

Fionavar