Blank Posted September 13, 2006 Share Posted September 13, 2006 (edited) So what's the plan, chums?Plan is to fail and hope u haven't made too big a mess. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Right... We're screwed. Edited September 13, 2006 by Blank Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
julianw Posted September 13, 2006 Share Posted September 13, 2006 (edited) It's like W.W.I. No one wins in the end. Failure for all was inevitable from the beginning. Or maybe I am just very depressed today. Edited September 13, 2006 by julianw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blank Posted September 13, 2006 Share Posted September 13, 2006 (edited) Well, I can't think of many ways the US could go about things now and have Iraq benefit. The best I could think of was having the troopers protect humanitarian aid endeavors. Make sure good things get to where they need to go. Other than that, I mean, establishing a democracy can't be that great: if you took the mindset of every Iraqi, and put it in to one person, that is, if they voted on a president who they thought embodied their interests, the US is going to be hated as an infidel nation. But how the US is seen shouldn't matter, what should matter is getting the democracy to actually work, so that hopefully all Iraq's citizens will be in a better condition (or progressing toward a better condition) than they were in before the US invaded, because they collectively should be able to vote themselves into that position. However, their intentions might not be for the benefit of every citizen. Edited September 13, 2006 by Blank Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Checkpoint Posted September 13, 2006 Share Posted September 13, 2006 Now, the real question is who should make a thread called 'Hades uses "Bush uses 9/11 to Justify Iraq War" thread to Justify Alternate Account?' ^Yes, that is a good observation, Checkpoint. /God Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colrom Posted September 13, 2006 Share Posted September 13, 2006 (edited) Blank said: "The ten commandments are not the only thing that matters in Christianity or Judaism. I'm not really sure what you are getting at when you said this. The bible discusses intentions a lot. You say your statement in a manner condemning of the ten commandments. Are they bad? If people were to obey them perfectly, would there not be a great change for the good?" Blank you misunderstand me. My manner of speaking reflects regret that the ten commandments are not accepted better. My point is precisely that folks regularly rationalize not following one or more of the ten commandments and instead preach rationalizations founded on Utility Theory. George's recent speach and many other of his speaches preach this New Gospel of Pride and Pragmatism. It proclaims, among other things, that: 1. what we see as good is good and what we see as bad is bad (we are the deciders), 2. our fears justify our deceits and preemptive violence (to be secure we must be deceptive about our methods strike before others can act), and 3. our envisioned ends justify our deceits and proactive violence (our lies, tortures, assassinations, and wars are for the better - would you prefer that Saddam was still in power?). His speach and all his speaches repeat this lesson or other lessons of a similar type. I don't appreciate this New Gospel of Pride and Pragmatism. I like the original Gospel better. Maybe we agree more than you think. Edited September 13, 2006 by Colrom As dark is the absence of light, so evil is the absence of good. If you would destroy evil, do good. Evil cannot be perfected. Thank God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucius Posted September 13, 2006 Share Posted September 13, 2006 Col, this is entirely off topic and not meant as an insult or anything, but you mentioned once that you were 'old', how old is that anyway? DENMARK! It appears that I have not yet found a sig to replace the one about me not being banned... interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
6 Foot Invisible Rabbit Posted September 13, 2006 Author Share Posted September 13, 2006 Blank said:"The ten commandments are not the only thing that matters in Christianity or Judaism. I'm not really sure what you are getting at when you said this. The bible discusses intentions a lot. You say your statement in a manner condemning of the ten commandments. Are they bad? If people were to obey them perfectly, would there not be a great change for the good?" Blank you misunderstand me. My manner of speaking reflects regret that the ten commandments are not accepted better. My point is precisely that folks regularly rationalize not following one or more of the ten commandments and instead preach rationalizations founded on Utility Theory. George's recent speach and many other of his speaches preach this New Gospel of Pride and Pragmatism. It proclaims, among other things, that: 1. what we see as good is good and what we see as bad is bad (we are the deciders), 2. our fears justify our deceits and preemptive violence (to be secure we must be deceptive about our methods strike before others can act), and 3. our envisioned ends justify our deceits and proactive violence (our lies, tortures, assassinations, and wars are for the better - would you prefer that Saddam was still in power?). His speach and all his speaches repeat this lesson or other lessons of a similar type. I don't appreciate this New Gospel of Pride and Pragmatism. I like the original Gospel better. Maybe we agree more than you think. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Col, you kick major ass. Harvey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blank Posted September 13, 2006 Share Posted September 13, 2006 Maybe we agree more than you think. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I think you're right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calax Posted September 13, 2006 Share Posted September 13, 2006 Colorm is a HERO! Victor of the 5 year fan fic competition! Kevin Butler will awesome your face off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkan Posted September 13, 2006 Share Posted September 13, 2006 NO! We can't leave Vietnam now, or else the communists will come in and take everything over! NO! We can't leave Iraq now, or else some other Muslim country will come and take everything over! "Of course the people don't want war. But after all, it's the leaders of the country who determine the policy, and it's always a simple matter to drag the people along whether it's a democracy, a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism, and exposing the country to greater danger." - Herman Goering at the Nuremberg trials "I have also been slowly coming to the realisation that knowledge and happiness are not necessarily coincident, and quite often mutually exclusive" - meta Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colrom Posted September 13, 2006 Share Posted September 13, 2006 As dark is the absence of light, so evil is the absence of good. If you would destroy evil, do good. Evil cannot be perfected. Thank God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
6 Foot Invisible Rabbit Posted September 13, 2006 Author Share Posted September 13, 2006 Actually if we did leave now it wouldn't surprise me one bit if Iran invaded. Harvey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tigranes Posted September 14, 2006 Share Posted September 14, 2006 Yeah, one unprovoked aggression should not make way for a second one. That way American soldiers can stay there. Did I tell you about all the rapes and abuses during the entire American military stay in South Korea? Nobody wants Iran in Iraq but nobody wants US there either. There's a pickle right there. Let's Play: Icewind Dale Ironman (Complete) Let's Play: Icewind Dale II Ironman (Complete) Let's Play: Divinity II (Complete) Let's Play: Baldur's Gate Trilogy Ironman - BG1 (Complete) Let's Play: Baldur's Gate Trilogy Ironman - BG2 (In Progress) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
julianw Posted September 14, 2006 Share Posted September 14, 2006 Did I tell you about all the rapes and abuses during the entire American military stay in South Korea? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Human's capacity for both good and evil sometimes scares me a bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanschu Posted September 14, 2006 Share Posted September 14, 2006 I'm sure it was just the American soldiers too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
6 Foot Invisible Rabbit Posted September 14, 2006 Author Share Posted September 14, 2006 The thing is te Americans going in were suppose to be the "good guys" but when the "good guys" are just as bad if not worse than the "bad guys" then we got problems. Harvey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tigranes Posted September 14, 2006 Share Posted September 14, 2006 Well, if there were any other foreign troops around I'm sure there might have been similar incidents, though I'm not sure if it'd have been as numerous. Not singling American soldiers out for anythin' - but rape in a country you're supposed to be protecting out of your own volition (we WANT you to go, it's the US government that wont leave, as if you would be useful in a war situation..), and the culprits cannot be punished accordingly due to American influence (sort of like how innocent muslims are locked up in American jails indefinitely without given a trial at all), and how all this slips under the reporting media for any country. Nothing to do with Americans; but it's pretty sad to see how many freedoms and morals are being crushed under the boot needlessly to 'protect America'. Did the administration really need to, say, lock up a Muslim moving states to find work and not give him a trial for months? Invasion of Afghanistan and Iraq we have a tenuous logic; how does this kind of stuff 'protect America'? It destroys it. Let's Play: Icewind Dale Ironman (Complete) Let's Play: Icewind Dale II Ironman (Complete) Let's Play: Divinity II (Complete) Let's Play: Baldur's Gate Trilogy Ironman - BG1 (Complete) Let's Play: Baldur's Gate Trilogy Ironman - BG2 (In Progress) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~Di Posted September 14, 2006 Share Posted September 14, 2006 ... "culprits cannot be punished...?" That's odd. I could have sworn that the "culprits" of any criminal act, soldiers or not, have been hauled in front of a court. There have been millions of American soldiers stationed around the world over the past 60 years. To dwell upon the minute percentage who have committed crimes while in uniform... and to pretend that those crimes were ignored... is nothing more than propagandized hate speech, in my view. Personally I dispise Bush, dispise his personal war in Iraq and dispise just about everything he's done in office. However, the spouting of basic "America is evil" pap has been the faddish thing to do since long before Bush was in office. It's just gotten to the point of being ridiculous. If any other reference... black, muslim, European, whatever, was substituted for the word America in these hateful diatribes, folks would be outraged by the bigotry. But as long as it's only America and Americans being pilloried, folks are okay with it. Bah. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hildegard Posted September 14, 2006 Share Posted September 14, 2006 (edited) OMG....do we go in circles or what, it's really getting tired..... Iraq war was there for the sole purpose of profit....and that is profit of CACI INTERNATIONAL INC., BECHTEL, AEGIS DEFENCE SERVICE, CUSTER BATTLES , GENERAL DYNAMICS, NOUR USA LTD., CHEVRON, EXXON MOBIL and others....in short those who funded and put Bush in power, the man is just returning the favour and I really don't know what's all the fuss about? Edited September 14, 2006 by Hildegard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kumquatq3 Posted September 14, 2006 Share Posted September 14, 2006 an Iraq discussion, AND Hilde is involved, and I missed it? Damn... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blank Posted September 15, 2006 Share Posted September 15, 2006 That Alias avatar is really costing you... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calax Posted September 15, 2006 Share Posted September 15, 2006 OMG....do we go in circles or what, it's really getting tired..... Iraq war was there for the sole purpose of profit....and that is profit of CACI INTERNATIONAL INC., BECHTEL, AEGIS DEFENCE SERVICE, CUSTER BATTLES , GENERAL DYNAMICS, NOUR USA LTD., CHEVRON, EXXON MOBIL and others....in short those who funded and put Bush in power, the man is just returning the favour and I really don't know what's all the fuss about? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> well... aerojet gencorp (who make the saturn V rocket among other propultion systems) isn't exactly rolling in dough. Of course that may be because they have to clean up the local ground water I curse my spelling. Victor of the 5 year fan fic competition! Kevin Butler will awesome your face off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hildegard Posted September 15, 2006 Share Posted September 15, 2006 (edited) an Iraq discussion, AND Hilde is involved, and I missed it? Damn... <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Don't worry kumaq, soon I'll be more around here so you'll get a chance seeing me bashing a lot more at 'american dogs', just like in the good old days. :D Edited September 15, 2006 by Hildegard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
6 Foot Invisible Rabbit Posted September 15, 2006 Author Share Posted September 15, 2006 We don't need more bashing. What we need are solutions. Harvey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hildegard Posted September 15, 2006 Share Posted September 15, 2006 (edited) We don't need more bashing. What we need are solutions. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> There isn't a need for solutions for those that see no problem. Edited September 15, 2006 by Hildegard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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