Dungeons and Dragons 4e

[Judge Hades]

Here is some worthless speculation and rumors about Fourth Edition DnD from the d20 community center: www.enworld.org.

 

From the esteemed Monte Cook:

 

Let me preface this by saying that nothing I'll write here on the subject of 4th Edition is based on any kind of direct knowledge. No one's told me a thing. But I did work at Wizards for years, and I knew the original plans. Moreover, I know the kinds of products that you release before a new edition, and the kinds of things you post to the Internet and say at conventions when you're working on a new edition. And so based on all that, my wild guess is 2008, with an announcement in 2007. That said, I think it maybe could come as early as 2007, with an announcement this year. If that were to happen, however, and I was working on D&D at Wizards, I'd polish up my resume, because a release that soon would seem to indicate that Hasbro was forcing the issue; it would suggest the corporation wants squeeze the game for what it was worth and then dump it, because the timing would be wrong for optimal success. It would indicate that they (Hasbro) just didn't care. To be blunt, 2007 would be too early--sales would not be as good, and the finished game would likely have been rushed. It would be very bad news for the game, for people working on the game, and likely for the rpg hobby as a whole (remember, so goes Wizards...)

 

Of course, I could be completely wrong. Maybe it will be farther off. Like I said, I have no special knowledge.

 

From Ryan Dancey, former WotC Staffer:

In the absence of any kind of confirmation from any of my inside sources, I want to put the 4E conversation on hold until such time as there is a more formal announcement, or a better stream of rumors, regarding how it will relate to D20 and the OGL. At this point, I suspect that the project, if it exists, is not imminent.

 

And from the rumormille d20 System messiah Eric Noah:

-4E already in the works? Check.

-Even more miniatures-centric? Check.

-Much smaller bundles of game info, packaged and sold separately? Check.

-A plan to possibly sell off RPGs entirely? Check. (Apparently only miniatures and Magic are making any money for WotC).

 

Well, I see this as bad news, if true. I have no real interest in 4e because 3.5e and Malhavoc satisfies all the fantasy gaming needs I have and d20 Modern handles everything else.

[Stephen Amber]

There has to be a point of culmination eventually. Aside from maybe sorcerers and magic(I'd make it mana based for them), can't think of how you could make the game much better than it is right now. The miniatures line is great, and they will soon be releasing card stock dungeon tiles, not unlike a poor man's dwarven forge... lots of cool props for the game. Don't understand why they did'nt do this years ago...

[Darque]

Yuck

 

3.5 is just fine, they need to be less greedy.

[Judge Hades]

Well, it seems Hasbro doesn't like the fact its not making any money for them so they want to revamp it into something that will make money. I agree that the current form of the d20 System is just fine as is.

[Dark_Raven]

Eh?

 

Get rid of Cook and lets get Greenwood back to being involved in D&D. Bring back AD&D.

[Spider]

There is a fine line between being greedy and being in business. The core rules of any given game system sells a lot better than any other book, by far.

 

I'm sure there are a lot of companies that can live well on just doing modules, but in order to keep updating rules and keep a decently sized development team, new versions of the core books need to be on the shelves from time to time. And if those new versions aren't significant updates, a lot of the people who have the old versions won't bother to update. Yeah, sometime there needs to be change just for the sake of change.

 

Of course, a lot of the time the updates are definitely warranted and based on a lot of player feedback. Personally I usually get excited when a new version of a game I like comes out, it usually means new things to discover and slicker rules.

 

That being said, if 4e will indeed be more miniature centric because that's what sells then it could fall on the line of greed instead. I know I would have no interest in it. Then again, I don't have much interest in the D&D franchise to begin with so I'm hardly the best judge.

 

Another point of view could be that if the miniatures are what's selling, then that is what the fans of D&D wants, and by going down that route Wizards is simply catering to the fans. I guess it makes sense from a business standpoint.

[Judge Hades]

Eh? 

 

Get rid of Cook and lets get Greenwood back to being involved in D&D. Bring back AD&D.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Get rid of Cook? Cook left WotC a long time ago to focus on his own gaming company. Greenwood is still at WotC so I really don't know what the hell you are smoking but its not doing you any good.

[Hurlshort]

PnP books are struggling mightily, but it would be nice if they focused on the fact that good PnP books can help profits in other areas. Are miniatures going to sell well if they kill the books?

 

It's a tough market with little growth, but hopefully these are just rumors.

[Dark_Raven]

Eh? 

 

Get rid of Cook and lets get Greenwood back to being involved in D&D. Bring back AD&D.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Get rid of Cook? Cook left WotC a long time ago to focus on his own gaming company. Greenwood is still at WotC so I really don't know what the hell you are smoking but its not doing you any good.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[Judge Hades]

See what happens when you don't pay attention, Dark Raven.

 

Personally I think that if Hasbro is unsatisfied with the sales of DnD maybe it is time that WotC sold the license to a new company such as White Wolf.

[Dark_Raven]

Totally.

[Judge Hades]

Right now White Wolf has a pretty impressive array of d20 System material being published by them. Necromancer games, Sword and Sorcery, and Malhavoc Press each have quality stuff.

[Deraldin]

Eh? 

 

Get rid of Cook and lets get Greenwood back to being involved in D&D. Bring back AD&D.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Get rid of Cook? Cook left WotC a long time ago to focus on his own gaming company. Greenwood is still at WotC so I really don't know what the hell you are smoking but its not doing you any good.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

From what I recall of his speech last year, Greenwood isn't doing much beyond writing the occasional book just to keep Wizards from assigning some other author to write the next Elminster book. Not sure how much of that is just exaggeration on his part though. I could ask him for you guys next time I see him (In about 6 weeks). "

[Judge Hades]

That would be cool. It would be nice to hear what Mr. Greenwood thinks of the given situation considering his campaign setting is pretty much the flagship of WotC product line.

[Atreides]

In before MTG pnp.

[Jorian Drake]

Yuck

 

3.5 is just fine, they need to be less greedy.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

*sarcastic*

 

 

I can't await 6.99991 ^_^ !!!

[Dark_Raven]

AD&D was just fine, lets just bring that back with a few alterations and us older fans will be happy.

[Judge Hades]

AD&D was clunky and didn't allow true customizable characters. A thief was a thief. A fighter was a fighter. With d20's feat and skill system you can create quit a number of unique characters just using the SRD.

 

Also AD&D was very much closed to third party content which the d20 System OGL allows and there are quite a number of third party material out their that are high quality stuff.

 

AD&D was very limited. The d20 System is the most perfect system I have came across to run my campaigns in. No other system have I come across that my players liked and can run my campaign stories equally well. AD&D just can't handle post modern New York unlike d20.

[Lancer]

The d20 System is the most perfect system I have came across to run my campaigns in.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

You are truly in the minority here.

[Volourn]

"A thief was a thief."

 

False. You tell my dwarven locksmith that, and he's liable to smack you across the head with his oversized hammer.

 

P.S. As for 4th edition, meh. B O R I N G

 

The chance sof me buying it is less than nil. Heck, i don't even bother buying anymore 3.0 stuff. And, I have never bought *any* 3.5 junk (not counting video games based off of it ala TOEE and upcoming NWN2).

Edited August 13, 2006 by Volourn

[Judge Hades]

Game mechanically your dwarven "locksmith" would have no major differences with any other dwarf with the thief class.

[Lancer]

Game mechanically your dwarven "locksmith" would have no major differences with any other dwarf with the thief class.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Let's debunk this myth, shall we?

 

-The lockpick percentages most likely will be very different(not to mention all the other skills).

 

-Non weapon proficiencies could vary tremendously from one thief to another.

 

-If 2ndEd Player's Option is used, a thief could have a totally different set of thieving skills from another.

 

-In PO, A dwarf can also have a totally different set of class skills from another.

 

- Traits/advantages/disadvantages also bestow a huge degree of variation among characters of the same class.

 

- And of course, any house rules that a DM sees fit.

 

-And perhaps most important, a good DM with a healthy imagination that can think "outside the box."

 

 

AD&D just can't handle post modern New York unlike d20

 

This is self-evident, since d20 is not a singular universal ruleset ala GURPS (as you seem to imply), but represents a whole slew of modified third party rulesets (with original base in 3e) each focusing on a different genre or setting.

 

AD&D and 3.x OTOH, were created for one genre only ---fantasy roleplaying.

 

The Buck Rogers ruleset , with roots based on AD&D 2ndEd, would be able to handle post modern New York quite well.

Edited August 14, 2006 by Lancer

[alanschu]

The d20 System is the most perfect system I have came across to run my campaigns in.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

You are truly in the minority here.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Given the large amount of rulesets available, I'm betting that no ruleset could claim to be in the majority.

[Volourn]

Oh, SNAP!

[Judge Hades]

Lancer, I was comparing baseline 2e ADnD versus baseline 3.5e DnD. Corebooks only, you know.

 

Baseline material is only PHB, DMG, and the first MM.