9/11, Loose Change

[Moose]

Clicky

 

Discuss

[alanschu]

Conspiracy!!!

[Laozi]

Great, Alex Jones, as if its not bad enough that he's all over public access

[Oerwinde]

Got halfway before it stopped loading. So far it was pretty interesting.

[kirottu]

911 always reminds me of the Lone Gunmen series.

[alanschu]

It was an interesting documentary.

[Bokishi]

Interesting indeed.

[Moose]

Interesting, but how much do people believe? The collapse of the towers I thought was a pretty natural thing to happen (you know, with a huge jumbo jet crashing into it and all)... but I have to admit the lack of evidence at the pentagon crash site was intriguing.

[Bokishi]

It's hard to swallow that the government would kill people though.

[Moose]

I don't believe they would, and I'm pretty sure the towers collapsed on their own. As he never pointed out in the video, metal doesn't need to become molten for it to weaken, it already starts bending at higher temperatures.

 

That pentagon crash site though... you have to admit that's suspicious.

[alanschu]

In my complete lack of expertise, I don't see why the towers still couldn't have fallen. It wasn't just a fire, but a full on explosion with additional structural damage caused by the plane itself crashing into it (and you can see a definite moment just before explosion with the second plane so it's not like it just exploded on the outside).

 

 

It seems like something that is just sooo big though. And given the media seems to have little problems pointing out the faults of Bush, I'm surprised that they could also be involved. This sounds like Pulitzer prize type stuff. I suppose anyone can be bought though.

[Walsingham]

1) I thought the Pentagon crash was suspicious until I took the trouble to learn about the engineering physics. Then it's still interesting and counter-intuitive but entirely consistent.

 

2) There's no way on God's green earth you could involve an entire planeload of randomly selected muntas in a conspiracy like this and expect none of them to resurface unless you killed them all.

 

Like most conspiracy theories its all good fun until you look too closely.

[Oerwinde]

I don't believe they would, and I'm pretty sure the towers collapsed on their own. As he never pointed out in the video, metal doesn't need to become molten for it to weaken, it already starts bending at higher temperatures.

 

That pentagon crash site though... you have to admit that's suspicious.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Another thing that I saw was investigating that. Through their investigations, the jet fuel, combined with other combustibles could have reached a maximum of something like 800-1000 degrees, while the temperature needed for the structural steel to weaken to the point that it would start to bend was like 1160 degrees. Also, the steel was designed to support 6 times what it was required to support.

 

There was also something the documentary left out that I heard before about a recorded phone conversation with the guy who owned the complex where he told someone to "pull the building" which they said was a demolition term

[Kaftan Barlast]

Id just like for someone relatively impartial to take a look at his sources, this all seems a bit too fantstic to be true.

 

 

Hehe, they interiew Hunter S. Thompson for a commentary on how the American news networks covered 9/11 "

Edited June 19, 2006 by Kaftan Barlast

[Walsingham]

I agree with Kaft in that I'm hardly impartial. But I did spend a good few hours in conjunction with some structural engineers who are friends of mine reviewing the available material.

 

I hate to point it out, but the US givernment are people too. It's a pretty damn serious accusation to be making just for amusement's sake, if you ask me. I mean, doesn't the very beginning really say it all? General suggests something on not even half the scale of 9/11 in the seventies, and has his *** fired so quick you could blink and miss it.

[Bokishi]

Interesting: the pentagon was pretty weird because of the lack of a black trail, and the documentry pointed out the little explosions that could be seen elsewhere as the tower came crashing down. I should watch another WTC video to make sure that those little explosions weren't added in.

[alanschu]

1) I thought the Pentagon crash was suspicious until I took the trouble to learn about the engineering physics. Then it's still interesting and counter-intuitive but entirely consistent.

 

2) There's no way on God's green earth you could involve an entire planeload of randomly selected muntas in a conspiracy like this and expect none of them to resurface unless you killed them all.

 

Like most conspiracy theories its all good fun until you look too closely.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

That's what I feel as well. It seems like too huge of a conspiracy that not more than a few people would have come out to talk about it.

[mkreku]

The funny thing is, when they broadcasted the burning towers live in Sweden, my dormmates (at the time) were looking anxiously at the disaster shown on the screen, going, "What if the towers collapse??" and I, in my infinite wisdom (of having studied structural engineering for four years), calmingly said, "Don't worry, buildings that huge are designed to withstand even a direct hit of a Boeing.". 20 minutes later they both came tumbling down, to my great surprise. So much for ny knowledge.. all those years of studies.. in vain..

[astr0creep]

I should watch another WTC video to make sure that those little explosions weren't added in.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

They weren't.

 

I very clearly remember seeing explosions just before the towers crumbled down in a relatively clean way, live on tv. I was even taking notes...

It actually shocked me more than the impacts of the planes because my first thought was that they destroyed the towers in a controlled fashion(they both fall straight down, pro-demo style) to avoid collateral damage to other buildings and killed all those people in the process.

 

I haven't seen the footage of the explosions until Loose Change and everytime I tell someone they just think I'm crazy. I could be but not about this.

[Hurlshort]

If this were true, it would be impossible to keep all the necessary personel quiet about it. This is a massive undertaking. It's just like the JFK assassination. When all the major evidence points one way, that's it. You can go looking under every rock for possible conspiracies, but that doesn't mean the most likely situation isn't true.

[astr0creep]

If this were true, it would be impossible to keep all the necessary personel quiet about it.  This is a massive undertaking.  It's just like the JFK assassination.  When all the major evidence points one way, that's it.  You can go looking under every rock for possible conspiracies, but that doesn't mean the most likely situation isn't true.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

You're an alien, aren't you?

[taks]

but I have to admit the lack of evidence at the pentagon crash site was intriguing.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

there's plenty of evidence. when conspiracists cite a "lack of evidence" that really means they are unwilling to admit the validity of the evidence that does exist.

 

taks

[taks]

Through their investigations, the jet fuel, combined with other combustibles could have reached a maximum of something like 800-1000 degrees, while the temperature needed for the structural steel to weaken to the point that it would start to bend was like 1160 degrees.  Also, the steel was designed to support 6 times what it was required to support.

the conspiracists ignore some basic physics when making this claim. first, their assumption of 800-1000 degrees is for an open air flame. this was hardly an open air flame. a better analogy would be a crucible. temperatures can easily get much higher than that in such a situation.

 

also, 1160 is the melting point of the steel (generic steel is just over 1000, higher grade building steel is probably where the 1160 came from). even if temperatures got only to 800, their assertions ignore the fact that steel weakens significantly well before even that temperature. it's not like you start heating it and suddenly it starts melting without any changes beforehand.

 

There was also something the documentary left out that I heard before about a recorded phone conversation with the guy who owned the complex where he told someone to "pull the building" which they said was a demolition term

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

his call came after the attack had already occured, and he made the statement in 2002 in an interview saying that while speaking with the fire department, the best thing to do would be to "pull it," i.e. get out of there because they've already lost enough lives. another nonsense claim made by conspiracists looking for an angle.

 

taks

Edited June 19, 2006 by taks

[Moose]

The fact they found a surviving passport, but all 4 black boxes mysteriously disappeared was also really strange. Why would they hide them like that?

[taks]

The fact they found a surviving passport, but all 4 black boxes mysteriously disappeared was also really strange. Why would they hide them like that?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

i don't know, maybe because the "black boxes" were in the front of the plane at the point of impact experiencing the full force of the impact? they are also heavy, contrasted with a passport that can waft up into the air and be blown out of harm's way.

 

taks