New NWN2 OC estimate of 30-40 hrs

[Spider]

First off, I was not lying, have never lied to you guys, and have no intention of lying in the future.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I just wanted to apologize if you felt I was accusing you of lying. I started to explain how my posts came about, but then I realized that it only came across as a vague attempt at justification. So I won't. Let's try again.

 

If you felt I accused you of lying, I am truly sorry. That was never my intent and I am sure you're a very nice and honest guy.

[Dark_Raven]

Mr. Chapman rules.

[Cantousent]

Hey, he was willing to defend himself, which is good. Now, if Chapman will stick around and brave a few questions about the title, then he will rule.

[Volourn]

Actually he does rule. he likely cna get anyone of us ban that he wishes to. :D

 

Now, that's real power (well, internet wise anyways ).

 

Though some thoguhts on the possible death rules for the OC would be a nice tidbit.

[Gromnir]

First off, I was not lying, have never lied to you guys, and have no intention of lying in the future.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I just wanted to apologize if you felt I was accusing you of lying. I started to explain how my posts came about, but then I realized that it only came across as a vague attempt at justification. So I won't. Let's try again.

 

If you felt I accused you of lying, I am truly sorry. That was never my intent and I am sure you're a very nice and honest guy.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

don't apologize. nathan has been trying to further qualify his "30-40+ hours of gameplay" estimate since he made it not long ago at the bio boards.

 

*shrug*

 

in any event, all those thumb's up icons is gonna dissapear and be forgotten if we not get "30-40+ hours of gameplay."

 

am not impressed with developer honesty in any event. after all, in spite of the fact that we is all knowing who made the initial 20 hour estimate, no obsidian developer will address it save for in oblique fashion as nathan did above. am understanding that the developers cannot tell us some stuff... and that they doesn't even know other things, but they dances 'round other topics with 'bout as much grace as a leperous and morbidly obese fat man... who has maybe had too much to drink.

 

the dm client? oops. we weren't gonna tell you 'bout that til... later.

 

30-40+ hours of gameplay? well, i think that we might possibly get 30-40+ hours, but that doesn't mean that some speed players can't get only 10-15... and the game isn't finished yet so i can't say for sure what is hours of gameplay and i am just the qa guy so...

 

20 hours quoted in a german rag? well, i am not syaing that fergie did or din't say 20, but even if he did he ain't really qulaified to do so.

 

...

 

it is the nature of Gromnir's business that we gotta deal with bs all day and every day. we got a real talent for sniffing out such stuff, but honestly, we thinks nathan were telling truth when he said 30-40+ hours... but am losing some respect given the way he tries to qualify and hedge after the fact. we gaves him every opportunity to back away from making such a public estimate, but he did not do so. you made the estimate, and whether that were a mistake or not we expect you to sack up and take whatever good or ill comes of it.

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Volourn]

You won't let the German-Codex scenario go at all, will you?

[Gromnir]

and why won't fergie/obsidian simply admit? that would be the honest thing to do.

 

in any event, Gromnir is always surprised at how little it takes for a person with a developer tag to impress the masses.

 

*shrug*

 

HA! Good Fun!

[213374U]

snip

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well, it certainly is nice of you to come by and explain your previous declarations, but I don't think it's such a good idea. You can't provide an accurate estimation of the length of the game given you're just the QA guy and stuff, which could be interpreted by some like Grom as a way of discrediting your previous comments and getting your ass covered. You are going to draw flak for this. And in the event the game is actually 30-40 hours long, you are going to draw flak from those that beat it in 20. Now, I'm not saying any of this is your fault, but surely you see how commenting on game length isn't the same as discussing max supported resolution for instance, where the game either meets the announced specifications or it doesn't. And folks around here are going to be taking your words as gospel... regardless of your intent.

 

As much as I like having devs around to chat with, I'd much rather discuss specifics, not vague personal valorations that may or may not be realistic in the end, even more when those depend on playing styles.

 

Heh. No wonder devs don't much post around these parts...

 

 

it is the nature of Gromnir's business that we gotta deal with bs all day and every day.

Well Grom, BS is the lubricant in human relationships after all... we all give and take our fair share. :D Edited May 27, 2006 by 213374U

[Volourn]

"You are going to draw flak for this."

 

Eh. They're gonna get flak no matter what. Afterall, Obsidian is saying how greta the game is. It's a guarantee that *somebody* will dislike the game so they'll give Obsidian flak ove rit.

 

Saem with duration. Some will finish in 30-40 hours, others in the 60+ hour range, and some in less than 20 hours.

 

This is stuff you cna't win; but I'd rather read what they have to say so we can se 'where they're coming from'.

 

[213374U]

Eh. They're gonna get flak no matter what. Afterall, Obsidian is saying how greta the game is. It's a guarantee that *somebody* will dislike the game so they'll give Obsidian flak ove rit.

My point exactly.

 

But posting in such an unconvincing manner and about stuff that can't very well be verified even after the game goes out (but can easily be "proven" false) only gives more material to criticize, without actually providing any reliable information on the game.

[alanschu]

It seems the lack of posting was giving people plenty to criticize about.

Edited May 27, 2006 by alanschu

[213374U]

It seems the lack of posting was giving people plenty to criticize about.

Criticism about the lack of devs posting here at the OE boards or lack of posting about NC's previous comments? "

[alanschu]

Criticism about the lack of devs posting. Particularly in response to the German-Codex incident.

[213374U]

Well... that incident also involved a fair load of vagueness, right? If so, read above.

 

If not, oops.

[Gromnir]

Eh. They're gonna get flak no matter what. Afterall, Obsidian is saying how greta the game is. It's a guarantee that *somebody* will dislike the game so they'll give Obsidian flak ove rit.

My point exactly.

 

But posting in such an unconvincing manner and about stuff that can't very well be verified even after the game goes out (but can easily be "proven" false) only gives more material to criticize, without actually providing any reliable information on the game.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

other obsidian developers were real careful not to make specific estimates 'bout time. however, fergie actually were the one who screwed up first by makings the 20 hour estimate. in any event, was a no-win situation once nathan made his 30-40+ estimate.

 

what to do? stand solid on the 30-40+ bit? heck no. no doubt some other obsidians pointed out to nathan the foolishness of developers making hour estimates AFTER he blurted out "30-40+ hours." HoW shoulda' taught the obsidians just how dangerous such over estimations were... but nathan did point out that he weren't with bis during the HoW debacle.

 

maybe the best thing to do after making an unfortunate and ill-advised hour estimate is to try a little damage control: point out that "30-40+" can mean so many different things to so many different people.

 

whatever.

 

when the dm client were killed the bio board population went nuts. how did obsidian respond? a couple days later we find out that the dm client is back in... sorta. now the dm client is gonna be released contemporeaneous with nwn2. should be a lesson to boardies.

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Atreides]

N.Chapman

 

[alanschu]

when the dm client were killed the bio board population went nuts. how did obsidian respond? a couple days later we find out that the dm client is back in... sorta. now the dm client is gonna be released contemporeaneous with nwn2. should be a lesson to boardies.

 

The DM Client was never killed according to Obsidian.

[Cantousent]

ridiculous. Once the genie is out of the bag concerning game length, Obsidian is going to take flak no matter what. They are going to be forced to address the question of game length before they release the game. Chapman giving his thoughts on the matter is perfectly legitimate.

[alanschu]

I agree.

 

If it was never stated prior, people would still complain that it's too short.

[213374U]

ridiculous.  Once the genie is out of the bag concerning game length, Obsidian is going to take flak no matter what.  They are going to be forced to address the question of game length before they release the game.  Chapman giving his thoughts on the matter is perfectly legitimate.

Never said otherwise. But giving out very unspecific and rather subjective info isn't the best way to address the issue.

 

 

I agree.

 

If it was never stated prior, people would still complain that it's too short.

I think I already admitted that, no need to keep beating that dead horse. The difference is the "ZOMG U LIED!!1" crap that will pop up everywhere if the game can be completed in less than 30-40 hours. That's not a matter of complaining based on personal impressions and dissatisfaction with the game, but on unfulfilled expectations that were raised by the dev team to begin with.

 

But whatever, it's not like I'll be the target when the mud starts flying.

[alanschu]

At the same time though, if the comments of people here mean anything, it seems as though people do base their purchase decisions based on the length. Yes, it could be horribly off. But even if you're someone that can finish games typically faster than the others, you'll at least get an idea of how long the game can be.

 

It is in their best interests to not be horribly off base with their time predictions as well, if HoW is any indication.

 

Not stating a time would likely result in complaints about the lack of statement of time.

[Cantousent]

At the same time, we have to understand that there will be a reasonable amount of time for the majority of players to spend on the main quest.

 

Sure, some folks will rush through it quickly and fall under the "normal" amount of time. As much as I hate saying this, some folks will literally lie about the amount of time it took them.

 

However, if the majority of geeklings here take between 30-40 hours, the folks complaining about game length will have a damned muted voice. If they seem unfairly harsh, they simply won't get any traction. However, if the game is short for the majority, then it will also be apparent.

 

The point is, things like supported resolution, classes, and races are all specific items that have definite answers. ...But Obsidian still has to answer the questions that aren't quite so set in stone. For example, will the game be "immersive?" What the hell is immersive, anyhow?

 

Nonetheless, they'll have to answer these questions. Hell, game length is an easier one to answer than most, although it's not necessarily easy to answer at this point.

 

However, I don't think game length will be a major issue after the game is released. The way I take these comments is that the majority of gamers will probably get their 30+ hours of enjoyment and the folks with an axe to grind will largely be ignored. Frankly, if it weren't for Feargus' ill-considered comments to the German mag, I don't think game length would be an issue right now. Undoubtedly, the relatively minor issue it will be after release will owe something to this ridiculous blurb.

 

Finally, the HoW incident is why I think we can accept Chapman's comments. Why? Because Feargus doesn't want to release another free expansion because the design team dropped the ball on game length. I'm a minority around here in that I enjoyed HoW, but I know Black Isle received a lot of flak for game length.

 

My gut instinct is that Obsidian is better off catering to the long campaign crowd than the short campaign crowd. I believe they know that, and that's why they're going out of their way to assure folks that the game will have a reasonable length of 30-40 hours.

 

Game length is an issue. It will be addressed before release. Some assessment will probably be posted on the package. This issue has arisen early, but staying silent won't help at this point. If the game is going to sport single player campaign of 30-40 hours for an average haul, whatever the hell average is, then Obsidz needs to get the word to the street. If it's not 30-40 hours, then they sure as hell better be careful.

 

I've no doubt the reason they're so cautious about making the 30-40 hour claim is that, even though they believe the length will be longer, they're scared that a bunch of speed demons are going to finish it lickity-split.

 

That's just my opinion. I could be wrong, but only time will tell.

[213374U]

If you say so.

 

I'd rather have information regarding the number of sidequests, their complexity, number of NPCs with something to do, how many major areas are there going to be, etc, than something as vague as "you'll beat it in 30 hours". 30 hours of filler are still 30 hours.

[Cantousent]

Oh, I agree with that, my 1337 friend. Like I said, this is an issue right now because of that stupid Feargus' comment. I guess we can call it an "alleged" Feargus comment, but it seems pretty well established that he said something to these folks.

[alanschu]

If you say so.

 

I'd rather have information regarding the number of sidequests, their complexity, number of NPCs with something to do, how many major areas are there going to be, etc, than something as vague as "you'll beat it in 30 hours". 30 hours of filler are still 30 hours.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I'd rather have a vague gamelength.

 

Part of the gaming experience that I enjoy is discovering that stuff for myself.

 

To each his own I guess. I don't really follow the press releases a whole lot anyways, in order to avoid spoilers.