Hassat Hunter Posted April 25, 2006 Posted April 25, 2006 That's one of those anger moments. You play to completion, get to the ending, the game is done. Like wtf? That is it? Just be glad you got there and didn't hit "bad design" on Telos Citadel Statin, Telos Academy or the Onderon Palace... which I still call bugs despite whatever people here try to tell me... ^ I agree that that is such a stupid idiotic pathetic garbage hateful retarded scumbag evil satanic nazi like term ever created. At least top 5. TSLRCM Official Forum || TSLRCM Moddb || My other KOTOR2 mods || TSLRCM (English version) on Steam || [M4-78EP on Steam Formerly known as BattleWookiee/BattleCookiee
Judge Hades Posted April 25, 2006 Posted April 25, 2006 Players that need their hands held while playing a CRPG should not be playing a CRPG.
Darque Posted April 25, 2006 Posted April 25, 2006 If you threw away the Amulet of Kings, then later on tried to continue the main story but forgot which orifice you stuck it in, is it a bug? Would it even be bad design? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Neither. That would be a STUPID MOVE OF THE PLAYER. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Check and mate, or bug? Is it really the devs' job to make sure their players aren't complete morons? Now, even cooler would have been if doing so would have triggered another branch in the story, where you eventually find out someone picked it up, and you have to hunt it down or something. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I thought it was the developers job to make their game unbreakable.
Judge Hades Posted April 25, 2006 Posted April 25, 2006 Or his sucking up <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I don't really need to know, Craigboy2's sexual preference. NOT LISTENING!
Hassat Hunter Posted April 25, 2006 Posted April 25, 2006 Well, it's understandable and not bad design if the player exhibits an abnormal level of stupidity...since it's obvious the Amulet of Kings is needed to further the story. It's bad design if the item in question isn't obviously required later on. Like some given keys. Tried to drop all for some testing and couldn't drop one because "quest item"... due to the lack of a decent name it took me quite some time to figure out for which of my quests I needed that one... ^ I agree that that is such a stupid idiotic pathetic garbage hateful retarded scumbag evil satanic nazi like term ever created. At least top 5. TSLRCM Official Forum || TSLRCM Moddb || My other KOTOR2 mods || TSLRCM (English version) on Steam || [M4-78EP on Steam Formerly known as BattleWookiee/BattleCookiee
Judge Hades Posted April 25, 2006 Posted April 25, 2006 I thought it was the developers job to make their game unbreakable. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Unbreakable in normal gameplay, but not to player stupidity. If you are going to be stupid, live and die with the consequences.
alanschu Posted April 25, 2006 Posted April 25, 2006 Well, it's understandable and not bad design if the player exhibits an abnormal level of stupidity...since it's obvious the Amulet of Kings is needed to further the story. It's bad design if the item in question isn't obviously required later on. Like some given keys. Tried to drop all for some testing and couldn't drop one because "quest item"... due to the lack of a decent name it took me quite some time to figure out for which of my quests I needed that one... <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Hmm, they probably intended for it to be obvious. BugCount++
Cantousent Posted April 25, 2006 Posted April 25, 2006 With so many people clamoring for a truly open game in which there will be serious consequences, it makes sense that the player can dump any item, even quest critical items. Of course, that would be a terrible design in a CRPG. Sounds great to have a truly open ended game, but oh, the wailing and gnashing of teeth. Fionavar's Holliday Wishes to all members of our online community: Happy Holidays Join the revelry at the Obsidian Plays channel:Obsidian Plays Remembering tarna, Phosphor, Metadigital, and Visceris. Drink mead heartily in the halls of Valhalla, my friends!
Llyranor Posted April 25, 2006 Posted April 25, 2006 See, bugs and bad design aren't mutually exclusive. If you need to have an item at one point and can't continue without it, if you 'lost' it, oops. "Game-stopping". You can't continue with the game, is it a bug? You could argue that, if only for accusing the game of not being idiot-proof. Is not providing proper idiot-proofing bug-worthy? Perhaps. Is it bad design? If you made it so that you could only accomplish it one way if you wanted to proceed, and that there was the possibility of 'failure', perhaps having alternative paths would have been nice, no? Bad design? What about bug? What about both, or neither? You could correct the 'bug', but the design could still be bad in that there's only one way to proceed. Of course, now it's idiot-proofed. Win-win, or lose-lose? Or neither? (Approved by Fio, so feel free to use it)
Dark_Raven Posted April 25, 2006 Posted April 25, 2006 If you threw away the Amulet of Kings, then later on tried to continue the main story but forgot which orifice you stuck it in, is it a bug? Would it even be bad design? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Neither. That would be a STUPID MOVE OF THE PLAYER. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Check and mate, or bug? Is it really the devs' job to make sure their players aren't complete morons? Now, even cooler would have been if doing so would have triggered another branch in the story, where you eventually find out someone picked it up, and you have to hunt it down or something. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I thought it was the developers job to make their game unbreakable. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I thought that was quality control. Hades was the life of the party. RIP You'll be missed.
LoneWolf16 Posted April 25, 2006 Posted April 25, 2006 I thought it was the developers job to make their game unbreakable. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Unbreakable in normal gameplay, but not to player stupidity. If you are going to be stupid, live and die with the consequences. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> So, the player is an idiot if they dropped a "Rusty Iron Key" they found at level 1, which would then be needed at level 50 to open one particular chest in the end game? There's two extremes there, hand holding by not allowing quest items to be dropped, or screwing the player over completely... I had thought that some of nature's journeymen had made men and not made them well, for they imitated humanity so abominably. - Book of Counted Sorrows 'Cause I won't know the man that kills me and I don't know these men I kill but we all wind up on the same side 'cause ain't none of us doin' god's will. - Everlast
Dark_Raven Posted April 25, 2006 Posted April 25, 2006 I thought it was the developers job to make their game unbreakable. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Unbreakable in normal gameplay, but not to player stupidity. If you are going to be stupid, live and die with the consequences. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Like werewolves for example? Hades was the life of the party. RIP You'll be missed.
LoneWolf16 Posted April 25, 2006 Posted April 25, 2006 Low blow, Raven. I had thought that some of nature's journeymen had made men and not made them well, for they imitated humanity so abominably. - Book of Counted Sorrows 'Cause I won't know the man that kills me and I don't know these men I kill but we all wind up on the same side 'cause ain't none of us doin' god's will. - Everlast
alanschu Posted April 25, 2006 Posted April 25, 2006 I thought it was the developers job to make their game unbreakable. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Unbreakable in normal gameplay, but not to player stupidity. If you are going to be stupid, live and die with the consequences. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> So, the player is an idiot if they dropped a "Rusty Iron Key" they found at level 1, which would then be needed at level 50 to open one particular chest in the end game? There's two extremes there, hand holding by not allowing quest items to be dropped, or screwing the player over completely... <{POST_SNAPBACK}> That would be asinine design.
Darque Posted April 25, 2006 Posted April 25, 2006 I thought it was the developers job to make their game unbreakable. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Unbreakable in normal gameplay, but not to player stupidity. If you are going to be stupid, live and die with the consequences. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Like werewolves for example? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Dark Ravowned!
Cantousent Posted April 25, 2006 Posted April 25, 2006 See, we've made the question of time in NWN2 irrelevant ourselves. Why should Feargus worry about clarifying our statements. If you don't like the wether on the Obsidian boards, just wait fifteen minutes. It'll change. Fionavar's Holliday Wishes to all members of our online community: Happy Holidays Join the revelry at the Obsidian Plays channel:Obsidian Plays Remembering tarna, Phosphor, Metadigital, and Visceris. Drink mead heartily in the halls of Valhalla, my friends!
LoneWolf16 Posted April 25, 2006 Posted April 25, 2006 That would be asinine design. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Bingo. I had thought that some of nature's journeymen had made men and not made them well, for they imitated humanity so abominably. - Book of Counted Sorrows 'Cause I won't know the man that kills me and I don't know these men I kill but we all wind up on the same side 'cause ain't none of us doin' god's will. - Everlast
Judge Hades Posted April 25, 2006 Posted April 25, 2006 Well, that is a bit of extreme there, but there needs to be a clue of an item's importance. Such as the name Amulet of Kings makes it sound important. However it was simply named ruby amulet it is fodder for the merchant to sell so I can get better armor.
Hassat Hunter Posted April 25, 2006 Posted April 25, 2006 Hmm, they probably intended for it to be obvious. BugCount++ *Sigh* That was a reply on Lovewolf's "if the objects are quite obviously linked to the plot"... in this case this key was not. If I had stored it somewhere, who knows I could even link it with the door I needed to open. Is that me being an idiot? Maybe...but I wonder how many gamers will recall the use of that one item with a name like "Iron Key" 100+ further into the game... ^ I agree that that is such a stupid idiotic pathetic garbage hateful retarded scumbag evil satanic nazi like term ever created. At least top 5. TSLRCM Official Forum || TSLRCM Moddb || My other KOTOR2 mods || TSLRCM (English version) on Steam || [M4-78EP on Steam Formerly known as BattleWookiee/BattleCookiee
alanschu Posted April 25, 2006 Posted April 25, 2006 That would be asinine design. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Bingo. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I also liked the degree of assonance present ^_^
Llyranor Posted April 25, 2006 Posted April 25, 2006 (edited) Why should you be able to open that chest at all costs? Isn't that the point of inventory management? The player prioritizes what s/he keeps. If s/he decides a key she found in said dungeon is useless and throws it away, boo freaking hoo. As alanschu says, though, asinine design LOL. Just because you don't reward stupidity doesn't mean you have completely random design. Edited April 25, 2006 by Llyranor (Approved by Fio, so feel free to use it)
Dark_Raven Posted April 25, 2006 Posted April 25, 2006 I thought it was the developers job to make their game unbreakable. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Unbreakable in normal gameplay, but not to player stupidity. If you are going to be stupid, live and die with the consequences. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Like werewolves for example? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Dark Ravowned! <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I have an excellent memory. Hades was the life of the party. RIP You'll be missed.
Darque Posted April 25, 2006 Posted April 25, 2006 I thought it was the developers job to make their game unbreakable. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Unbreakable in normal gameplay, but not to player stupidity. If you are going to be stupid, live and die with the consequences. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Like werewolves for example? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Dark Ravowned! <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I have an excellent memory. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> It is one of the Obsidz forums greatest hits :cool: (w00t)
alanschu Posted April 25, 2006 Posted April 25, 2006 Hmm, they probably intended for it to be obvious. BugCount++ *Sigh* That was a reply on Lovewolf's "if the objects are quite obviously linked to the plot"... in this case this key was not. If I had stored it somewhere, who knows I could even link it with the door I needed to open. Is that me being an idiot? Maybe...but I wonder how many gamers will recall the use of that one item with a name like "Iron Key" 100+ further into the game... <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Exactly. A hardcore bug.
Hassat Hunter Posted April 25, 2006 Posted April 25, 2006 Let's ask me this. If NWN2 had an item called "metal block"or so in the tut, would you take it with you? And then when you notice 10 hours into the game you suddenly needed this metal block to climb onto something... would YOU prefer that? Kotor1 and 2 did quest-item sorting on a good way, Oblivion does, WHY does everybody wan't the ability to screw themselves over? ^ I agree that that is such a stupid idiotic pathetic garbage hateful retarded scumbag evil satanic nazi like term ever created. At least top 5. TSLRCM Official Forum || TSLRCM Moddb || My other KOTOR2 mods || TSLRCM (English version) on Steam || [M4-78EP on Steam Formerly known as BattleWookiee/BattleCookiee
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