Oblivion First Impressions

[Hassat Hunter]

You don't need 80+ disposition for most things. In fact, 65+ seems to be fine, I usually do it till maxdisp (70+) for all quest people as Speechcraft is my major (and it takes me 20 secs)... maybe I missed some 'special' bits, but that's what you get if you don't have high speechcraft.

 

That's what I said... around 50+ for info unlocks, but you NEED 80+ for quest-updates. Not very surprising... since that was the same value used in MW.

 

And the curse get's worse;

 

I have upped in being a Vampire, and now sunlight starts to fry my furry skin . That is seriously going to toughen up exploring/shopping... maybe I should find a heal for this after all

 

 

And for SS; some more info on the Blue Screen of Death Termination;

It ALWAYS (meaning if it happens it happens then, NOT it happens every time a quest updates) happens when a quest is being updated. In all the crashes I had by blue screen enemies were nearby when the update happened, but I am unsure if that is a requirement too... I'll keep an eye out for any other errors happening this way and the details surrounding these crashes.

Edit; The crash is like Freelancer's one if you go through Jump Gates with EAX on. But there it was always happening; here it seems totally random

Edited March 28, 2006 by Hassat Hunter

[Cantousent]

My heal is the bomb. The idea that heal spells don't do any good is just silly. The simple fact is, magic replenishes quickly, healing while running backwards gives you breathing room, and running out of magic doesn't result in death. Running out of health does.

[Tigranes]

, but you NEED 80+ for quest-updates

 

No, you don't. That's my point. I have never bribed anyone, and sometimes didnt even bother persauding up to 70. Over two dozen quests, no problem. Maybe you need to bribe in rare sitautions, but that's ok.

 

Eldar:

I had the same problem as well, especially since it's hard to aim spells in 15fps (RAM hasnt arrived yet). basically you have to be between the sons and the goblins when they approach, so that they target/follow you. Not an attractive preposition for mages, but oh well. I think the sons were about 2 hits from death when I was done.

 

[Hassat Hunter]

 

You finished the Corrupt Guards quest in the Imperial City?

 

 

Also another quest forced me a 80+ persuasion, but I have forgotten which one that was...

And maybe you just think that I say you need 80+ for Any convo updates on quest; but I am just talking about it that when a NPC does not wan't to give you the info right away and it is quest-specific you need 80 or more disposition to unlock that option. Just like Morrowind...

Ofcourse this is not used in most quests; but if it is used, you now know your goal

 

Edit; spoiler! Not quote :">

 

can understand that for some particular quests you would need 80+ disposition, but you seem to imply that this is commonplace

 

Just mentioned that if there was a "locked convo option" it needed 50-60 if it was just chatter, and 80 if it was quest-specific. But I probably could have written it a bit better than I did...

And it was pretty common in the MW-quests... but I only have finished 8 in Oblivion so far so just stating from what I have seen/experienced etc. without knowing if it IS used often worldwide. But when used these numbers seem to be always the same...

(PS. Why do some only allow persuasion minigames to around 65-70 and others to 80-85?)

Edited March 28, 2006 by Hassat Hunter

[Tigranes]

Yes, I understand that. Such as when people say "I can only speak to friends concerning this matter". I can understand that for some particular quests you would need 80+ disposition, but you seem to imply that this is commonplace: and seeing as I've visited every major city and have completed over 25 quests, you'd think that I would have noticed if that was the case. I haven't seen a single quest where, for ANY part of the quest - starting, wringing information, persuading them, whatever - that you needed such a high disposition. Certainly not so high that you need to bribe. Hell, in one quest I was given a Charm scroll to use to persuade a person, but I just speechcraft'd to max disposition and it worked fine.

 

I can't remember if it was 80+ in Morrowind, but my point is you usually don't need to bribe.

 

EDIT: Some can be persuaded up to nearly 90, it seems. I never had to go over 75 though. It might be that you have been focusing your enquiries in, say, the Imperial City. And you might have a lower Personality. It also hurts disposition if your weapon is drawn. 8 quests probably aren't a very good sample, but it's a pity you have to bribe so early in the game when gold *is* scarce.

Edited March 28, 2006 by Tigranes

[Dhruin]

Those of us with low scores in the appropriate stats need to bribe from time to time to get started at all. I wouldn't call it commonplace but it does happen.

[Gromnir]

The hype was enormous plus Morrowind scores were pretty high (especially early) and this is a step forward in many areas so I don't find the scores surprising...GameSpy went 4/5 yesterday, which seems closer to the mark to me.

 

I must say it's an odd phenomenon - I have a laundry list of complaints and individual elements fail to impress when examined or compared with other games...but the whole is rather enjoyable.  I find myself wanting to get home from work and fire it up, despite the shortcomings.  Not sure if that will last...time will tell.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

if Gromnir was sure that space rangers 2 copy protection would not kill our dvd drive we would probably have already stopped playing oblivion. morrowind 1.2 is ok, just nothing special... surely not greatest-game-in-5-years special.

 

as to the influence minigame... am playing a character with an okie dokie personality and we ain't not yet noticed any difference 'tween dialogues received with or w/o doing the persuade game. we typically save 'fore convos with key personages.

 

*shrug*

 

black & white got some of the wtf kinda reviews... but am trying to think of another game where the weight of critical support is so heavily and inexplicably (as far as Gromnir is concerned) in favors of a game. is just wacky.

 

btw, do they even give half stars at gamespy? if not then we ain't impressed with their restraint... and their review had some odd criticisms. not mind seeing a game marked down for flaws, but some of their "immersion" complaints bugged the heck out of Gromnir. ask 5 different people what is important for "immersion" and you will get 5 different answers. reviewers should never EVER complain 'bout immersion. complain 'bout specific instances of stoopid ai or counter intuitive physics or such, but "immersion" is an absolutely meaningless term. any reviewer who uses such a term looses 10 cred points with Gromnir.

 

bah.

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Llyranor]

Gamespy does give out half-stars.

[Dhruin]

if Gromnir was sure that space rangers 2 copy protection would not kill our dvd drive we would probably have already stopped playing oblivion.  morrowind 1.2  is ok, just nothing special... surely not greatest-game-in-5-years special.

 

SR2 is one of my favourite games in recent times. I won't try to convince you one way or the other on Starforce, so I guess that's one that will go untried.

 

as to the influence minigame... am playing a character with an okie dokie personality and we ain't not yet noticed any difference 'tween dialogues received with or w/o doing the persuade game.  we typically save 'fore convos with key personages.

 

I don't want to overstate it. I have a low personality (there's a free hit for someone...) and five or so times I've not been able to talk to NPCs without bribing and/or extra dialogue has opened up. It tends to be an all-or-nothing thing from what I've seen. I refuse to use the stupid persuasion game, so I've only bribed a couple of them and let the other quests go.

 

btw, do they even give half stars at gamespy?  if not then we ain't impressed with their restraint... and their review had some odd criticisms.  not mind seeing a game marked down for flaws, but some of their "immersion" complaints bugged the heck out of Gromnir.  ask 5 different people what is important for "immersion" and you will get 5 different answers.  reviewers should never EVER complain 'bout immersion.  complain 'bout specific instances of stoopid ai or counter intuitive physics or such, but "immersion" is an absolutely meaningless term.  any reviewer who uses such a term looses 10 cred points with Gromnir.

 

bah.

 

HA! Good Fun!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Yes, they have half-stars. It's not a perfect review - just closer than the 9.6s or whatever elsewhere. And yes, immersion is a difficult term but I think it's OK if you are careful and explain the reasoning. Then again, you'd probably say that makes it redundant and you may be right.

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

My heal is the bomb.  The idea that heal spells don't do any good is just silly.  The simple fact is, magic replenishes quickly, healing while running backwards gives you breathing room, and running out of magic doesn't result in death.  Running out of health does.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Which heal spell are you using ?

[Llyranor]

Okay, finished the Dark Brotherhood questline. The Silencer quests were on the whole disappointing (merely simple 'kill this person' quests, with most of that time spent travelling to said locations), but the conclusion made up for it. While I liked the actual ending, the PC's participation in it was pathetic. Again the issue of complete linearity pops up and the PC is just everyone else's lapdog.

 

The roleplaying opportunities in terms of uncovering the traitor at Lucien's necrophilia site was right *there*. "One of you is a traitor! Behold, proof!" Causing paranoia amongst them would have been nice. But noooo, let's tag along to see the night mother, who I know is a target. Getting her as bait *would* be a good option, but not as the ONLY one. The PC basically doesn't have any involvement in the quest at all, other than being there. Worse yet, once the traitor tries to kill the night mother, who does he attack? Me, of course. I jump out of his reach and just wait, while he attacks the night mother to no avail. There's really no opportunity to get her killed, not even if I help him. Nope, the only outcome is the traitor's death and me becoming da boss. This kind of design is all too pervasive throughout the game.

 

 

 

And I already finished the main storyline.

Paradise

was atmospheric enough. That dude speaking to you throughout was a nice touch. Afterwards, the climatic battle at the end could have been good, if the framerate didn't jump into a ditch. Big bad boss was a nice touch, as was its end battle with

Boromir

. That was a cool cutscene fight.

 

Final impressions: If you liked Morrowind, there's pretty much little reason to not get this game. If you didn't, then you might or might not like this game. The same open-endedness is present. Freeroaming exploration is nice. The world to explore is pretty big. It's much less bland than Morrowind's. It still retain some of Morrowind's perceived 'pointlessness', though that has to do with its sandboxy properties. For the most part (Shadowfax has pointed out some exceptions throughout this thread), the world just waits around for you to finish quests. The sense of urgency is absent for the vast majority of the game. The writing in the main storyline is a definite improvement, albeit storytelling/presentation itself is still rather weak. PC responses consist of either: 1) Morrowind's wikiawesomeness or 2) Complete sentences, of which you have to choose one out of a pool of one choice. Occasionally 2, rarely even 3. In the end, considering all that, I wouldn't say the story/writing (which I would label as decent, let's say, in contrast with Morrowind's seizure-inducing) alone would warrant someone who didn't like Morrowind to go out and get this game. It really depends on how much you like the TES series' strengths and how much you can tolerate their weaknesses.

 

Final score 7/10; a decent game, a good distraction, but not a 'classic 5 yrs from now'. I'll be keeping an eye on Fallout 3, and if the writing/storytelling improves significantly, hopefully it will end up as more than just a good distraction. It'll be interesting to see what Shadowfax can bring to it as well (if it does turn out his undisclosed project is that at all, that is).

Edited March 29, 2006 by Llyranor

[Calax]

After all that, what do I think?  I Love this game.  It's what Morrowind wanted to be.  This is the potential to which Bethesda aspired.  This is one of the best games of recent years.  You should but it, enjoy it, and thank me later for my excellent advice.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

reminds me of "Kingdom of heaven" where Balins father says he fought with an arrow in his testicle for three days.

 

and that's about all i can contribute as I don't have the game and my computer would scream bloody murder for five seconds before exploding if I tried to play it.

[Cantousent]

My heal is the bomb.  The idea that heal spells don't do any good is just silly.  The simple fact is, magic replenishes quickly, healing while running backwards gives you breathing room, and running out of magic doesn't result in death.  Running out of health does.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Which heal spell are you using ?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I use Heal Minor and Heal Major Wounds. Range rules in this game. You can frequently get the bad guys stuck in terrain features or run around in circles to kill them. On the other hand, that's what I meant when I said that this game favored FPSers. Twitch helps.

 

On the review front, I don't like number scores anyhow. If I reviewed the game, I'd be forced to cite all sorts of things I find jarring. I would do my best to give my impressions as accurately as possible. At the end, I would be inclined to mention the fact that I'm enjoying the game so much. I wouldn't give a quantitative score because there is no way to give a quantitative attribute to gaming experience.

[LoneWolf16]

I'd now like to present evidence that Radiant A.I. does indeed work.

 

Ok, so I get attacked by a Mythic Dawn agent decked out in Iron plate and hefting a big war hammer. I want the armor from a Leyawin guard, so I lead the guy over to one...it doesn't work, and the agent ends up dieing. Well, I was sure the guard would be close to death, so I decide to bash him upside the head. He goes down, and I hear a Khajiit yell something about murder. I turn to see the cat lady bend down to check on the guard, grab the agent's hammer, and proceed to whack me with it while calling for the other guards to help her.

 

I killed her of course, but it was still neat.

[Cantousent]

Oblivion is really stealing sleep from me. It makes the Through a Dream Darkly quest all the better. Aw hell, I think that's the name of the quest. I really enjoyed the hunting mission also.

I lost an NPC on that one as well.

I'm almost done with all the Mage Guild recommendation missions and I'm quite enjoying myself. I think, if I had to pin it down, that the quests make Oblivion. Morrowind just had sucky quests and drab surroundings. It's too bad, because there were things Bethesda could have done with the Morrowind scenario that would have made it much more compelling. Still, that's all done and over. They made good with Oblivion and I'm hopeful for FO3.

 

The biggest beef I have at this point is the dialogue. It's disjointed. I hate the speechcraft mini-game with a passion and I hate it more and more as I play. I find the other aspects more than make up for it, but I still hate it. Here's the problem: there are four choices for the mini game. I can admire, boast, joke, or threaten. Each NPC will respond with a strong positive, weak positive, weak negative, and strong negative to one of those tactics. For instance, El-Dar, the pathetic mage has a strong positive to threaten, a weak positive to boast, a weak negative to joke, and a strong negative to admire. The way the mini-game provides a clue to these responses is a wide smile to the strong positive, a faint smile to a weak positive, a slight frown to a weak negative, and a curled lip to a strong negative. The only problem is, those expressions are often out of place. For instance, El-Dar has a wide smile for threaten because it's a strong positive response. ...But he's not happy when the player threatens him. He's just easily bullied. Instead of a wide smile, he should have a fearful look on his face. Likewise, he could have a fawning look on his face for boasting. Of course, it might be difficult for the design team to accurately depict all the various expressions which is a fair statement. Even so, the expressions irritate me.

 

Likewise, I don't like the fact that folks will exhibit such massive mood swings during a single conversation. For instance, El-Dar joyously calls to you as the savour of Kvatch. He then tells you that he'll pay good coin if you avenge the death of his wife. After that, when you ask him about rumors, he tells you, in a hushed voice, that Kvatch was destroyed. Finally, he exclaims how much he loves living in the Imperial City. El-Dar doesn't need someone to avenge the death of his wife. He needs someone to provide him with Lithium Carbonate to treat his bi-polar disorder.

 

The dialogue and mini-game suck in Oblivion, but not enough to make much of a dent in my overall satisfaction with the game. However, Fallout 3 is a different story. What I liked best about the Fallout series was the dialogue. I liked playing a smooth talker with a fast gun. I relished every conversation that took advantage of a high intelligence/high charisma scores. I looked forward to seeing the story unfold by investigating different activities and discussing the results with NPC throughout the games. The dialogue system in Oblivion is simply not up to the task.

[mkreku]

One thing about the quests though: the rewards. I am currently not using a single thing I've gotten as a quest reward. The best reward I've gotten was from the dumbest, most meaningless quest in the game: Go Fish.

 

 

If you go talk to Aelwin Merowald outside Wawnet Inn (outside Imperial City), he will tell you the dumbest story ever about how he wants to retire and has saved a lot of money. If only he could get 12 more Rumare Slaughterfish scales he'd be able to live happily ever after. This could possibly be the worst quest ever, and I didn't even bother with it until I got bored of seeing it in my quest list, like ten minutes ago. It turns out that the reward for killing those twelve fishies is a ring called "Jewel of the Rumare", that gives unlimited underwater breathing (as long as you wear it)! Dumbest quest ever gives the most useful item so far. Figures.

 

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

I use Heal Minor and Heal Major Wounds.  Range rules in this game.  You can frequently get the bad guys stuck in terrain features or run around in circles to kill them.  On the other hand, that's what I meant when I said that this game favored FPSers.  Twitch helps.

 

On the review front, I don't like number scores anyhow.  If I reviewed the game, I'd be forced to cite all sorts of things I find jarring.  I would do my best to give my impressions as accurately as possible.  At the end, I would be inclined to mention the fact that I'm enjoying the game so much.  I wouldn't give a quantitative score because there is no way to give a quantitative attribute to gaming experience.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Thats not really a good thing though is it ? I dont think the intention is for you to win through poor AI manipulation.. Alchemy I find superior to healing spells, but the way potions work is rather cheap since you can pause and glub as many as you like.

 

One thing I've found is if you play the game like an MMPORG it becomes a lot easier. It's actually quite similiar in so many respects (like as you level things become that much harder to kill). Using a bow to "pull" single creatures while stealthed for example is a tried and true EQ tactic. As is charming a creature then pulling another one before the charm breaks.

 

I did the next bit of the main quest and pretty much walked it. It's amazing what a difference a 19 damage weapon makes (w00t) . I still use the old 5 damage axe for one on one encounters with non spell throwers though, isnt fast , but it pays from both a player and a character perspective.

 

Anyone who really enjoys Oblivion that much and hasnt tried an MMPORG really should. They are so similiar, it's rather eerie. The only thing missing is not sitting down to "heal up". And waiting around for spawns to pop up.

[Tigranes]

Yeah. I'm level 12 or something, done ~20 quests and cleared ~10 dungeons, no fast travel except for a couple of fedex quests (Go to Chorrol. Talk to A. Go to Cheydinhal. Talk to B. Come back to Chorrol. Talk to A. Quest Ding.) and a couple of loot trips... I got about 2-3 magic weapons worth using, and that's just +5 frost damage or something. How the crap am I supposed to kill Will-o-wisps when it takes at least 30 hits of my Dwarven Arrows or Firebolt?

 

And no, I don't want to readjust difficulty level back to normal.

 

EDIT: By the way, is there any way to get Alchemy Recipes off people or whatever? So far the only way I know of making potions is clicking one ingredient, then clicking the next slot to see if I have anything that combines together. And a stolen recipe for... Cure Disease.

Edited March 29, 2006 by Tigranes

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

EDIT: By the way, is there any way to get Alchemy Recipes off people or whatever? So far the only way I know of making potions is clicking one ingredient, then clicking the next slot to see if I have anything that combines together. And a stolen recipe for... Cure Disease. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I've found a couple of recipes on scrolls. Normally I just look at the effects of items and combine the ones I want. Unless I'm just practicing , in which case combining two foods makes a restore fatigue potion at the lowest level. It's a pretty good way to make some early cash too. Join guild, steal all their food (which isnt a criminal act once you join) and then make as many food based potions as you can. Most of the good effects wont show up until your at least at level 25 at which point healing potions are easy to make. Time consuming though.

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

I need a house how do I go about getting one ?

 

I'm carrying around a ton of stuff I "might" want to use. Thing is , it means I cant move unless I cast that anti burden spell.

[Tigranes]

Each city has somebody that sells a house. In Imperial City, go to the marketplace district and the Imperial Commercial Office or something. In most of the outlying cities it is the Count in the Castle that sells the house.

 

There is also a mod out that places Dimension Pockets (bag of holding) or Chests in Guilds that are NOT "looted" by NPCs. Use Search function in elderscrolls.com/forums.

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

Each city has somebody that sells a house. In Imperial City, go to the marketplace district and the Imperial Commercial Office or something. In most of the outlying cities it is the Count in the Castle that sells the house.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Thanks.

I havnt visited a castle yet. Supposed to go to one later for one of the quests.

[Shadowstrider]

Okay, finished the Dark Brotherhood questline. The Silencer quests were on the whole disappointing (merely simple 'kill this person' quests, with most of that time spent travelling to said locations), but the conclusion made up for it. While I liked the actual ending, the PC's participation in it was pathetic. Again the issue of complete linearity pops up and the PC is just everyone else's lapdog.

 

The roleplaying opportunities in terms of uncovering the traitor at Lucien's necrophilia site was right *there*. "One of you is a traitor! Behold, proof!" Causing paranoia amongst them would have been nice. But noooo, let's tag along to see the night mother, who I know is a target. Getting her as bait *would* be a good option, but not as the ONLY one. The PC basically doesn't have any involvement in the quest at all, other than being there. Worse yet, once the traitor tries to kill the night mother, who does he attack? Me, of course. I jump out of his reach and just wait, while he attacks the night mother to no avail. There's really no opportunity to get her killed, not even if I help him. Nope, the only outcome is the traitor's death and me becoming da boss. This kind of design is all too pervasive throughout the game.

 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

***Easter Egg Spoiler ahead***

 

Although I agree with this complaint about the Dark Brotherhood finale, there is something cool that I did manage. If you take the "Mother's Head" to Applewatch and drop it on the floor, you CAN find out who the traitor is before the actual finale. Unfortunately, nothing more could be done.

 

 

P.S. Why have I become Shadowfax?

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

Got my house. Well more of a shack really in Bravil. Does the job though and the small town means less effort in selling stuff.

 

Found some nice glass toys and the staff I created (remind anyone else of creating a lightsaber?) has soul steal so now coupled with journeyman repair I pretty much own the zone at the moment

 

I'm thinking of recruiting a rat to max out heavy armour might take a while, but should save a lot of time in the long run.

[Shadowstrider]

One more thing:

You can store things in your own house. However, if you place items in a public chest (like the aforementioned Mage's Guild), it gets looted. Kind of like reality, if you leave something out, someone will take it.