Oblivion First Impressions

[Judge Hades]

Maybe it is? Who knows? Ever looked at the actual code?

 

I can accept the fact it may actually be very difficoult to pull this off, but it just seems they haven't even tried...

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Shadowstrider works at Bethesda.

[Hurlshort]

Is your TV HD?

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Yes, but only capable of 480i or whatever. It is widescreen though, which rocks.

Edited March 22, 2006 by Hurlshot

[Lyric Suite]

Shadowstrider works at Bethesda.

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Perfect, this means i can get a real answer then? (w00t)

 

For startets, why doesn't B. hire more/better artists writers? That's something i never understood. Surely they have the dough by now...

Edited March 22, 2006 by Lyric Suite

[mkreku]

Maybe because the writers/artists they have right now has taken them this far. That is, one of the most successful RPG development houses in the world.

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

Bethesda do what works for them. Since it works so well there isnt much incentive to change it.

 

I'm sure the first impressions will be favourable. Its the after a couple of days impressions that interest me since thats when I'm normally shelving an Elder Scrolls game because of the mediocre story and the sameyness.

Edited March 22, 2006 by ShadowPaladin V1.0

[Cantousent]

I'm thinking of getting this game, but I'd like to hear from folks who've actually played the game rather than folks who've read someone else's review. ...And that's double for folks who haven't played or even read a review. Because this is Bethesda, we'll hear the axe grinders who've never even considered buying the game in the first place.

 

Also, is the game out on PC yet?

[Dhruin]

Simultaneous PC and X360 release...I would think most US stores would have it by now.

 

What exactly do you want to know? Everyone will have different opinions but if you want a specific area(s) covered, I'd be happy to answer as best I can.

 

For the record, I played Morrowind for around 40 hours before putting it aside - I was satisfied with that but I'm neither a fan nor a hater; it did some things well and others not so. Oblivion has obvious improvement in many areas...but it feels very much like Morrowind 2.0...if you hated MW I doubt this will convert you. For anything less than hate, it depends on your priorities I guess.

[Hurlshort]

So far the quests have been way more compelling in Oblivion than in Morrowind. I just took a side quest to help some young folks protect their farm. One of them died, and everyone was pretty bummed. I'm also trying to solve a mystery about a stolen painting. So far it's much more interesting.

[Vic]

How is the quality of the quests? I hear they're much more involved, that they tend to be more interesting, and that they have a much better narrative than Morrowind. Have you tried the stealth system at all?

 

How is the quality of the dialogue (what the npcs speak, not dialogue choices). How is the VO work, and does it seem to help with immersion? From the videos they remind me of the talking heads from Fallout.

 

Most of what I read on this forum and others are tech bits about graphics, performance, UI etc. But the few that talk about the actual content seem to be ecstatic (they are also large, mainstream gaming forums).

Edited March 22, 2006 by Vic

[Cantousent]

Okay, I enjoy the feeling the exploration and freedom in developing my character. The only problem is that Morrowind was so open ended it lacked any cohesion. It was just this large land mass inhabited by a swarm of flying bird/dinosaurs who attacked me at every step. Some folks suggest that the most enlightened players (whatever the hell that means) enjoy something completely open. Whatever. I just want a fun game that provides the story for me, and that doesn't mean wandering around looking for it.

 

The graphics were beautiful by and large. I enjoyed the look, but that doesn't mean I'm enslaved by good graphics. I like something that looks good, but great gameplay can make up the difference in a pinch.

 

The combat wasn't all that great, but I appreciate the idea of having a specific story to follow and something to accomplish. I thought magic was uninspired and so I'm hoping for a better system. On the other hand, I don't mind relying on the sword for combat if I can use the spell to supplement my endeavors.

 

While other folks hated the tomes and books, I didn't mind them. The dialogue was overall uninspired, but not nearly so bad as some folks suggest. The real problem is that the dialogue was like the world, all over the place. *shrug*

 

I would like better quests than what I found in Morrowind, but mostly I'd just like more of them. The quests weren't so terrible but for the vast distances they forced me to travel and their random, aimless nature.

 

That's all I can think of right now. Some of what I've read helps me with these issues, but I'm still listening. Except for a moment's irritation, I'd probably just spook this thread. I am quite interested, however. I'm considering buying this game before the end of the week.

[Llyranor]

If you check out Gamespot, you can see a video of the highlights of Greg K.'s 12-hour marathon of the game. There's a good 17-min of footage there.

 

Actually, it just showed mostly combat and exploration - not too much to differentiate it from Morrowind in there yet.

Edited March 22, 2006 by Llyranor

[alanschu]

setting up the draw distance is easy enough in code, the hard part is getting everything to scale correctly to distance.... Brute force can only get you so far before you have use tricks.

 

Fine, but what's stopping developers from copying whatever technique Crytek used to eliminate this problem in Far Cry?

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The fact that the code is proprietary?

[Lyric Suite]

The fact that the code is proprietary?

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I see. So no game ever is going to feature unlimited draw line aside for those made by Crytek? Is that what i'm being told here?

[LoneWolf16]

I didn't think Far Cry's draw distance was unlimited. More like just over a mile or so...

[Dhruin]

Might it not just be that it's harder to do some things when the engine has to accomodate tracking 3000 NPCs? Oblivion does AI updates for *every* NPC right across the whole gameworld.

[Llyranor]

I didn't think Far Cry's draw distance was unlimited. More like just over a mile or so...

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Hmm, isn't Operation Flashpoint's even more than that?

[@\NightandtheShape/@]

The fact that the code is proprietary?

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I see. So no game ever is going to feature unlimited draw line aside for those made by Crytek? Is that what i'm being told here?

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No, that isn't what is being said... Just that a company must research of gather such technology. Now technically you can make the draw distance as I have said as big as you like, as big as your memory will allow infact, the problem comes when you render it, there are alot of common algorithms for altering meshes so that they're progressive.

 

You also have spatial partitioning etc... it's a complicated field and without knowing how either engine fundimentally works i cannot answer the question fully for you.

 

crytek may have developed an in house coding trick which allows them to have say double the draw distance without loss of performance, if that was the case from a business perspective would you sell technology that puts you apart from the crowd? You'd be an idiot if you did... So until someone else from another company figures it out(likely) or someone from crytek who coded it shares the secret(unlikely) then to an extent it will be property of that company.

 

Ususally things like this stay very private for a short while and become common practice later on X amount of years after release.

[@\NightandtheShape/@]

Might it not just be that it's harder to do some things when the engine has to accomodate tracking 3000 NPCs?  Oblivion does AI updates for *every* NPC right across the whole gameworld.

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Not sure how the AI works exactly but I'm pretty certain that the level it'd be running at for NPC X in Town Y where you aren't situated because you're in Town X will be lesser.

 

LOD AI, it was used in NWN and I expect the theory would be used here also, dunt waste what you don't have to waste, I imagine alot of ticks are saved because NPC don't have to pathfind on the same level.

 

The reason most likely has to do with progressive meshes, and verts on screen + the power of respective GFX card.

[taks]

Might it not just be that it's harder to do some things when the engine has to accomodate tracking 3000 NPCs?  Oblivion does AI updates for *every* NPC right across the whole gameworld.

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what dhruin said...

 

really, FPS games are NOT CRPG games. not in the least. the amount of side tasks devoted to things other than graphics in a CRPG are astounding. constant checks on every NPC or trigger in the area among other things. not so with FPS games. sure, they have AI, but they don't carry around the luggage of all the previous conversations you've had, nor your associations, or demeanor, or... got it?

 

in other words, there just aren't as many CPU cycles to devote to a CRPG's graphics as there with a FPU. unfortunate, and it won't ever be solved. as graphics engines advance, so do the requirements for the rest of the game. CRPGs will likely always lag behind the latest and greatest available FPS.

 

taks

[alanschu]

The fact that the code is proprietary?

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I see. So no game ever is going to feature unlimited draw line aside for those made by Crytek? Is that what i'm being told here?

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No. But you explicitly said you were confused why no one has copied it. If their implementation is what makes it run good, and other people haven't gotten it to run quite so well, then they will lag behind.

[LoneWolf16]

I didn't think Far Cry's draw distance was unlimited. More like just over a mile or so...

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Hmm, isn't Operation Flashpoint's even more than that?

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Never played that, and of course, I'm allowed to be wrong. Really wrong. I just remember something about a couple miles of visionsomethingorother in Far Cry.

[@\NightandtheShape/@]

Might it not just be that it's harder to do some things when the engine has to accomodate tracking 3000 NPCs?  Oblivion does AI updates for *every* NPC right across the whole gameworld.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

what dhruin said...

 

really, FPS games are NOT CRPG games. not in the least. the amount of side tasks devoted to things other than graphics in a CRPG are astounding. constant checks on every NPC or trigger in the area among other things. not so with FPS games. sure, they have AI, but they don't carry around the luggage of all the previous conversations you've had, nor your associations, or demeanor, or... got it?

 

in other words, there just aren't as many CPU cycles to devote to a CRPG's graphics as there with a FPU. unfortunate, and it won't ever be solved. as graphics engines advance, so do the requirements for the rest of the game. CRPGs will likely always lag behind the latest and greatest available FPS.

 

taks

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Depends how it is structured.

 

CRPG's usually suffer on the GFX engine because there is so much that goes into making them in terms of resources, not because there ain't enough ticks.

 

That luggage is based upon memory requirements and only needs to be processed fully for characters in the vicinity, other than that it's basically sounding like a huge graph(as in computer science graph).

 

I will reiterate that it is dependant upon the structure in the software, and if oblivion is running full AI for unseen characters in the same way as seen characters then the dev's are infact idiots and wasting tick, I really don't think they would dream of doing this without some major speed overhauls on searching and sorting of each AI bots memory so to speak, and the surrounding world.

[alanschu]

Even a seamless world like the Ultima games didn't have the AIs running for all people in the world at the same time. I'd be very surprised if Oblivion did.

[@\NightandtheShape/@]

Even a seamless world like the Ultima games didn't have the AIs running for all people in the world at the same time.  I'd be very surprised if Oblivion did.

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It can be done and has been done in NWN for multiplayer as previously stated, but that doesn't exactly work in the exact same fashion.

 

I also seriously doubt oblivion would be running full AI routines for the entire world.... That would be lunacy.

[Shadowstrider]

The AI is running processes at all times, whether you see them on screen, or they're in the same town as you. They are not, however, running full processes.