Why do you hate YOUR country

[Lucius]

Well, maybe I exaggerated a little. Folkepartiet are a bit extreme though. We have Fremskrittspartiet. They have 35% now. Scary, but understandable I guess..

 

Btw, what happened to that Folkpartiet stripper ? .. I had to google her right away. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Oh yeah, the far right racist, former pron actress, lesbian MP... why, they still have her in the party... I simply don't get why they haven't booted her long ago.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Every political party needs some mechanism for grabbing headlines ...!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

She had an article posted on her website describing immigrants as a plague I think, and that we should send those convicted of crimes to Russia in order to save money...

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

Waiting ridiculous ammounts of time for console game releases.

[Judge Hades]

I am afraid that won't be enough. The government spendings on border security in the past years have increased three fold only to see an increase in the number of illegal immigrants.

 

That is why we need tougher measures that makes coming to the US illegally not worth the risk. Imprisonment and deportation seems to me a little to lenient and not a strong enough deterent.

 

Also Hades, if you check the numbers, a large portion (30~40%) of the illegal immigrants here are women and the majority of the illegals are family-oriented and hard-working people.  Don't get the wrong impression that most of them are single men and are either gang members or drug dealers.

 

And I don't particularly care. If they want to come into this country to work and live they can do so using legal means to do so. We have laws in this country and if they can't respect the laws that we have then they don't need to be in our country.

 

Secondly, they do contribute positively to many industries here. I have no problem with cracking down on the criminals among illegal immigrants with harsh measures, but a guest-worker program seems necessary; otherwise, US would be hurting itself by driving away a part of its work force. (Our unemployment rate is still around a very healthy 5% mind you.)

 

As I said, I don't care. They are here illegally and they need to be imprisoned and deported for breaking our laws. It doesn't matter if they have been here for 1 day, 1 week, 1 month, 1 year, 10 years, or even 100 years. If they are illegal then they should not be in this country, plain and simple. We have ways for people to immigrate into the US, we have laws to make sure the process is done farily, and most of all it works.

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

That is why we need tougher measures that makes coming to the US illegally not worth the risk.  Imprisonment and deportation seems to me a little to lenient and not a strong enough deterent.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

All crime is commited by the living. The sentence is death.

[Dark_Raven]

Only in America can one get away with murder, it depends on how much money you can buy yourself out of a conviction.

 

Only in America can illegals hold demonstrations about a law about them, yet they are not rounded up and shipped back to their own country of origin.

 

Only in America can you have a lawsuit against trivial things like spilling a hot drink on yourself that you bought at a fast food chain.

 

Only in America our elected officials suck, yet a lot of the population did not vote because the candidates were not someone they desired in power.

 

Canada is starting to look promising to me.

[julianw]

As I said, I don't care.  They are here illegally and they need to be imprisoned and deported for breaking our laws.  It doesn't matter if they have been here for 1 day, 1 week, 1 month, 1 year, 10 years, or even 100 years.  If they are illegal then they should not be in this country, plain and simple.  We have ways for people to immigrate into the US, we have laws to make sure the process is done farily, and most of all it works.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Obviously you have no idea how tough it is to immigrate to US through legal means. Still, it is a virtue to be reasonable and accomodating toward others (and not to mention how stupid it is to hurt others while not helping yourself.) If you want all the illegals out of the country, you are basically seeking to cripple your own economy because you know well that the unemployed work force in the US right now is not going to take over the low-paying jobs filled by illegal immigrants.

 

If you want to be unreasonable and argue that the illegals broke the law so they should be criminalized, then I suggest you also write a letter to the US congress and ask them to return the whole country to the Native Americans. I don't remember the Indians inviting the colonizers as legal immigrants to slaughter them and take their land.

[metadigital]

[Judge Hades]

Obviously you have no idea how tough it is to immigrate to US through legal means. Still, it is a virtue to be reasonable and accomodating toward others (and not to mention how stupid it is to hurt others while not helping yourself.)

 

The law is the law and it never seemed to hurt my friend who immigrated from Great Britain legally.

 

If you want all the illegals out of the country, you are basically seeking to cripple your own economy because you know well that the unemployed work force in the US right now is not going to take over the low-paying jobs filled by illegal immigrants.

 

If it happens then it happens, and those who are strong will survive and the US economy will adapt. I also beleive that the welfare system needs to be revamped. There are people who are milking the system and that needs to stop. Those on welfare can take the place of illegal immigrant workforce or they can just starve and die off. Either way they are no longer a burden on the welfare state.

 

If you want to be unreasonable and argue that the illegals broke the law so they should be criminalized, then I suggest you also write a letter to the US congress and ask them to return the whole country to the Native Americans. I don't remember the Indians inviting the colonizers as legal immigrants to slaughter them and take their land.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That is a lame assed argument. What happened 400 years ago is irrelevant. I live in the now and seek to solve the issues we have now and not what should have been done or not done 4 centuries ago.

[julianw]

The fact of the matter is that you have got some 50~80 million people living here in US without legal status. Yes, they don't pay their fair share of taxes and pose a major threat to our national security since they are very difficult for the government to moniter. But there is simply no way for you to drive them away without a great cost to the US economy and its legal citizens. Again, I want to ask you: why would you injure others at a cost of yourself? That's why Bush's guest-worker program could work. We get the illegal immigrants into the system so that they are registered and easy to find and pay their fair share of taxes and all the same while maintaining the balance in our economy.

 

As for my lameass argument, I should clarify that if you didn't do things right the first time, you probably want to learn from your mistakes and make things right the second time.

Edited April 12, 2006 by julianw

[WITHTEETH]

Only in America our elected officials suck, yet a lot of the population did not vote because the candidates were not someone they desired in power.

 

Canada is starting to look promising to me.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You can always do a protest vote for Nader.

 

As for Canada, i remember looking at it on the other side of the lake from Detroit. The grass is literally greener.

[Deraldin]

Only in America our elected officials suck, yet a lot of the population did not vote because the candidates were not someone they desired in power.

 

Canada is starting to look promising to me.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You can always do a protest vote for Nader.

 

As for Canada, i remember looking at it on the other side of the lake from Detroit. The grass is literally greener.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Well, you were in Detroit remember... Then again, you would have been looking at Windsor.

[WITHTEETH]

As for the illegal immagrant debate:

Pretty soon all those nasty baby boomers will be gone thank god, then there will be a big dip in taxes... unless we invite more here!

 

Or you can look at it through the republican perspective of how they are a target for cheap cheap labor.

[Atreides]

Nasty baby boomers!

[kumquatq3]

mmmmm........Windsor

 

You'll never find a bigger hive of scum and semi-legal prostitution

Edited April 12, 2006 by kumquatq3

[Dark_Raven]

Only in America our elected officials suck, yet a lot of the population did not vote because the candidates were not someone they desired in power.

 

Canada is starting to look promising to me.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You can always do a protest vote for Nader.

 

As for Canada, i remember looking at it on the other side of the lake from Detroit. The grass is literally greener.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I grew up near Detroit and still live in the same state. Canada is just a couple hours away.

[Dyan]

mmmmm........Windsor

 

You'll never find a bigger hive of scum and semi-legal prostitution

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

I was in Windsor a couple of weeks ago. Or was it three? Somewhere like that. Anyway, I was not in the least impressed. It seemed very sleezy to me. A friend wanted to apply to a uni there - she had an interview. Didn't seem a nice place though

[WILL THE ALMIGHTY]

um... Windsor...

 

i like my country (canada) and even more quebec but only for the culture, ppl who live there and anything else then politics and taxes.

[~Di]

Oh Lordy. Forgive me, this is a "why I hate my country" rant on a real sore point!

 

One of the reasons it's so difficult for Mexicans and Latin Americans to get legal work visas is because of the immense flood of illegals. Even Ceasar Chavez, a true hero of the Mexican migrant worker, was dead set against illegal immigration. Why? Because he knew that everything he helped put into place to elimination the exploitation of poor migrant workers... legal work visas, decent wages, fringe benefits... meant nothing if illegals came in and took those jobs by doing without the legality, the decent wage, and the fringe benefits. And that is what is happening all over, in every business from hotels, to landscaping, to restaurants, to manufacturing... you name it.

 

Ah, but they pay their taxes, you say? Er, what taxes might those be? No income tax is withheld if one simply puts enough deductions on the withholding forms. The payroll taxes charged against social security numbers they have "borrowed" from USA citizens? ROFL. Those USA citizens have no end of grief when they find out that their SS numbers have been used illegally, and the IRS insists they made thousands more in income than they actually made... not to mention the misery they are subjected to when those social security numbers are used to get illegal welfare, or credit cards, or loans for which payments have defaulted.

 

Look, we are a nation of immigrants. We are NOT a nation of illegal immigrants. Most of our ancestors came here with respect for this country and for its laws. That's how it should be. The flood of illegals in some areas of this country, however, have destroyed communities. Jobs that gave people a stable economic base, jobs in construction, agriculture, restaurants and the like, suddenly aren't available to locals. Don't EVEN try the "jobs Americans won't do" bull-crud. Americans were doing those jobs, until greedy employers discovered that illegals would do them for much less, and wouldn't complain if they occasionally got stiffed on their wages altogether. Bah.

 

Now in thousands of towns across this country employers send pickups to corners where dayworkers gather, workers willing to use false documents and take lower wages. The greedy and corrupt exploit these illegal dayworkers, just as those dayworkers have exploited our country. Jobless citizens and legal immigrants move away, searching for work. Hospitals along the border have closed their doors because they cannot afford the flood of unpaid "emergencies" from across the border (mostly childbirth). So now these communities have no hospitals or clinics, and taxes soar to support the immense influx of additional children into local schools... and to pay for bilingual education.

 

I've heard it all... our economy would collapse without illegals. Prices would go up without illegals. Yada-yada. All bull-pucky. The Mexican government literally ships its citizens here because the money they send back to Mexico is that country's second largest source of revenue. That means that Mexico doesn't have to bother fixing its own economy, because the citizens of the USA are now propping up the economies of two countries.

 

Now we've got people protesting in the street, insulting our flag by waving it upside down and demanding... demanding! ... that illegals be made citizens! I wonder how Vicente Fox would like it if about ten million Americans marched into Mexico City, demanded free health care, food stamps, welfare, stole personal I.D. numbers from Mexican citizens for their own personal use, then demanded to be made citizens because, dammit, they had a right to have whatever they want!

 

This whole topic chafts me raw, obviously, because I lived most of my life in an area where the flood of illegals has destroyed not only communities, but the lives of those who came here legally to become a part of our country, not merely to exploit it.

Edited April 12, 2006 by ~Di

[metadigital]

So, ~Di, would you implement some sort of punitary mechanism against the employers (who take advantage of illegal immigrants)?

[~Di]

So, ~Di, would you implement some sort of punitary mechanism against the employers (who take advantage of illegal immigrants)?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I sure as hell would. And I'd start by scrupulously enforcing the laws already on the books requiring employers to verify the legal status of their workers, under penality of extraordinary fines, jail time or both. Laws which, I might add, are ignored as routinely as are the immigration laws themselves. <sarcasm> I wonder why. </sarcasm>

Edited April 12, 2006 by ~Di

[julianw]

Illegals do pay sales taxes, btw. It's also true that the illegal immigrants are doing the jobs Americans won't do. Our umemployment rate is below 5%, which consists of people who just joined the work force as well as people searching for higher-paying jobs. If you are against any sort of guest-worker program, I wonder if you have a better proposal for the current situation then?

[metadigital]

I don't think ~Di is against guest workers, I think she is for enforcing fair laws, so that the immigrants (illegal or otherwise) are not exploited. (But don't let me talk for you ~Di ...)

[Dark_Raven]

mmmmm........Windsor

 

You'll never find a bigger hive of scum and semi-legal prostitution

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

What do you expect when its close to Detroit?

 

Has a lot of strip clubs there. :ph34r:

[Judge Hades]

Illegals do pay sales taxes, btw. It's also true that the illegal immigrants are doing the jobs Americans won't do. Our umemployment rate is below 5%, which consists of people who just joined the work force as well as people searching for higher-paying jobs. If you are against any sort of guest-worker program, I wonder if you have a better proposal for the current situation then?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Hey, if it is legal guest worker program then I am all for it but if it has to do with illegals getting a job here then I am against it. If they want to come into the country to work, let them do so under the law. Plain and simple.

[~Di]

Illegals do pay sales taxes, btw.

 

Uh... I'm afraid I don't see what the point of that comment is to the topic at hand. I'm not impressed that illegals pay sales taxes, which even tourists pay for heaven sake and which cannot be avoided. I'm also not impressed that payroll taxes are deducted from paychecks garnered using illegal social security numbers, for all the reasons I've previously discussed.

 

It's also true that the illegal immigrants are doing the jobs Americans won't do.

 

No, it isn't true. You can say that it's true until hell freezes, but that doesn't make it so. The more accurate representation is that illegal immigrants do jobs for a wage that Americans won't accept, but in most cases it's less than a living wage for people who actually have to survive in this country's economy rather than ship money home to a place where exchange rates turn it into a small fortune.

 

The facts are that Americans and legal immigrants were indeed doing those very jobs before illegals moved in and agreed to do them for less money and without benefits. That is the truth, and it's a truth I have seen with my own eyes for more years than many here have been on the planet.

 

Our unemployment rate is below 5%, which consists of people who just joined the work force as well as people searching for higher-paying jobs.

 

It does not, however, count anyone who has been unemployed long enough to drop off the unemployment rolls. Nor does it count anyone who is on welfare. Nor does it count those legal non-citizen workers who have had their jobs taken by illegal workers. If you spoke to a large number of folks who have played by our laws, received the proper documents to be in this country and work in this country legally, I think you'd see that they too resent the illegals who flood over the borders disrespecting our laws and our country. If you read what I've already written, you know why this is so.

 

If you are against any sort of guest-worker program, I wonder if you have a better proposal for the current situation then?

 

I did not say I was against any sort of guest-worker program. We already have many such guest-worker-type programs already in place, where foreign nationals can come here and work legally. We've had this for decades. The flood of illegal workers has displaced many of them.

 

Reagan's amnesty didn't work in the 1980's, so repeating a proven loser again isn't going to work either. My plan? I've already stated it: Enforce our laws. All of them. Maintain our border security, no matter what the hell it takes. Actively deport illegals, actively prosecute employers who knowingly use illegals, and free up jobs for former welfare recipients and legal non-citizen workers at the legal wage requirements. If costs go up because a corrupted employer underpaid and exploited illegals, then costs go up. We'll deal. Believe me, the foreign guest workers already in this country will thank us a thousand fold.

 

Basing a false economy on exploitative illegal wages, then whining when caught should NOT be rewarded despite the scare tactics of the law-breaking employers who want to continue breaking laws to maximize profit.

 

Smuggling, either people or product, across a border in violation of our laws should NOT be rewarded despite the scare tactics that our economy will collapse without illegals who have no respect for our laws.

 

Creating feel-good laws that will never be enforced because of political reasons should NOT be rewarded despite the scare tactics of a corrupt government trying to blackmail USA taxpayers into continuing massive money influx to support their country, while another corrupt goverment is willing to bow to said extortion in a bid for blatant vote-mongering and corporate campaign contributions.

 

There are no heroes in this sad situation... except for the legal workers who came here, work permit or green card in hand, respecting our laws for a piece of the American dream and saw it fall to ashes when they were replaced by those who showed those same laws nothing but contempt. Too bad nobody speaks for them in this pathetic mess.

Edited April 13, 2006 by ~Di