How did KotOR fail?

[Karzak]

Do you expect any more than ten of one thousand fan (by that the normal population)'s suggestions to make it into a game? You shouldn't, because fans make a lot of conflicting and/or stupid suggestions. Not to mention differing from game design/theme or improbable in development scheme.

exactly. krazy seems to now be suggesting that 'cause all the suggestions ain't used in games that bio is ignoring the fans... which is just as silly as his "thief" or "uncaring" silliness spouted earlier.

 

HA! Good Fun!

LOL, still don't get it grommy? Just because something is suggested on the boards and then is in the game doesn't mean the suggestion is why it is in the game, D&D is a pretty limited area.

 

You have to be smart enought to think a little deeper, to look at what the big, often posted suggestions were and to see Bio didn't listen.

 

Of course an egotistical fanboy like you will never admit that. You will keep saying that Bio couldn't have come up with an old D&D staple like an intelligent sword without your help

[Gromnir]

talk 'bout ego. 'cause they didn't put in what YOU wanted, then you thinks that fans was ignored.

 

HA!

 

Gromnir wanted an intelligent and Crazy Chaotic Neutral sword that would have dialogues with party as comic relief. could bio come up with a similar thing on their own? sure they coulda'. doesn't change fact that we got what we wanted.

 

another example... bio said for months and months that they weren't gonna put a strategic pause in nwn... noted that as game was designed for mp that strategic pause not work so well. eventually enough folks asked for pause and they end up getting pause.

 

sorry, but the guy suffering from ego is krazy. he not get what he want, so bio is bad. what a joke.

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Karzak]

talk 'bout ego. 'cause they didn't put in what YOU wanted, then you thinks that fans was ignored.

 

HA!

 

Gromnir wanted an intelligent and Crazy Chaotic Neutral sword that would have dialogues with party as comic relief. could bio come up with a similar thing on their own? sure they coulda'. doesn't change fact that we got what we wanted.

 

another example... bio said for months and months that they weren't gonna put a strategic pause in nwn... noted that as game was designed for mp that strategic pause not work so well. eventually enough folks asked for pause and they end up getting pause.

 

sorry, but the guy suffering from ego is krazy. he not get what he want, so bio is bad. what a joke.

 

HA! Good Fun!

LOL, I see you still have trouble putting two and two togather. There wasn't any fan requests for a talking sword in BG2, I don't remeber you asking for one and I know you ain't the most honest person around so I kinda doubt your claim.

 

You saying Bioweenies listen to one small suggestion by you and ignore the big ones? Talk about a big ego! You funny.

 

Where is the rust monster in BG2?

 

As far as pause in play, it wasn't put in because of the fans requests silly boy, Bio spent months saying they weren't going to put it in even though it was one of the most requested things, it was put in during QA when it was seen it was needed. Fans had no say one way or the other.

[Drakron]

I remenber that.

 

Also were are cloacks that is very requested feature and its already been done by fans?

[Karzak]

I remenber that.

 

Also were are cloacks that is very requested feature and its already been done by fans?

They gotta save something for the next expansion

[Gromnir]

krazy either has bad memory... or is just flat out lying. you take pick.

 

*shrug*

 

pause was added 'cause of qa? HA! no doubt you was working at bio to be knowing this? di and others will recall when and how pause was added, so this little fib we not really need to address.

 

oh, and even your pet sargy recalls us asking for an intelligent, talking and crazy sword for bg2... though he seems to be confused in that he recalls us being angry at results. maybe you two kids should get together and come up with a common fabrication.

 

the sword thing seemed like a relatively simple addition and it made our top ten list that we posted numerous times... a list that included rust monsters and slaad and powerful critter's Gate ability, fewer empty and useless areas, and better npc dialogues, 'mongst other things. lots of other folks made similar requests... which is one reason why bio did away with empty and useless areas, and why npc dialogues was further developed. wasn't 'cause Gromnir asked... was 'cause lots of folks asked for similar things.

 

rust monsters not make it 'cause takes lots of effort to give all objects a metallic or non-metallic quality. we not under some kinda delusion that biowarians was ignoring a requested critter just 'cause they is jerks.

 

what ego to be thinking that just

[Volourn]

He's still bitter about theif 2 weapon style.

 

I guess BIO decided ona whim to add multiple henchmen HOTU, and it wasn't included because of the masses of people asking for it.

 

As has been mentioned, BIo's biggest problem is not that they don't listen to the fans; is they listen to the fans TOO MUCH.

[Drakron]

Grommir,

 

Pause in play was added after bioWare moved from BIS forums, it was a relative late adition after QA circle started.

 

You can argue that was "fan demand" but I argued to death about including it in BIS forums and it was no included back then.

 

We also asked about controlable henchman and nothing, we asked about acess to henchman inventory and again nothing ... they were added after players did it on expansions.

[Karzak]

krazy either has bad memory... or is just flat out lying. you take pick.

 

*shrug*

 

pause was added 'cause of qa? HA! no doubt you was working at bio to be knowing this?

LOL, that is what bio said, they said no to pause a bazillion times, then they added it cause QA, maybe they lied and it was really from fan demand, but we doubt it.

 

They said no to camera angle till someone else do it, then they add it"to not give hacked game an advantage in multiplayer". lol.

 

We know your not too honest, still sore about us catching you plagerizing eh?

 

There were a lot of things asked for, very few done, and certainly not the things the majority asked for, so obviously you smokin crack or sumptin.

 

You might have asked for an intelligent sword, matbe not, either way bio putting one in wasn't due to overwhelming fan demand, saying so is kinda a dumb thing to say.

[Karzak]

He's still bitter about theif 2 weapon style.

 

I guess BIO decided ona whim to add multiple henchmen HOTU, and it wasn't included because of the masses of people asking for it.

 

As has been mentioned, BIo's biggest problem is not that they don't listen to the fans; is they listen to the fans TOO MUCH.

LOL volo, Bio didn't add multiple henchmen, fans did.

 

You fanboys id funny!

[Gromnir]

"You can argue that was "fan demand" but I argued to death about including it in BIS forums and it was no included back then."

 

and of course nwn was released shortly after bio opened their own boards.

 

...

 

no?

 

krazy can't help making lies, but we expect more from the less fraudulent folks out there in tv land. did it take a long time to add pause? did bio initially think it was worth the effort? did bio initially resist? answers is obvious. fact that bio eventually caves to fan pleadings was also obvious. krazy now makes up some imagined qa thing... no more support for that than anything else he claims... just as he imagined all kinds o' wonderful stuff with thiefy dw. is nothing new.

 

hotu is little more than a response to all the fan pleadings. was qa responsible for getting epic levels into hotu? bio said that epic levels weren't worth the zots neither. is krazy gonna come up with some equally unlikely and unsupported notion concerning that feature?

 

for chrissakes, the biowarians even brought aribeth back from the dead 'cause of all the hard-up geeklings who complained that they couldn't really romance her in nwn.

 

the things asked for most often on the nwn boards for the expansions was epic levels, PrCs, drow/underdark stuff.

 

'course, people also asked for spellcasting PrCs... and they not get. is that 'cause bio ignores fans or 'cause bio made a choice that the effort weren't worth the payoff?

 

folks is trying to have both ways. bio ignores fans and they is jerks. bio gives folks what they want, but they is jerks when they do so.

 

silly.

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Volourn]

Really Karzak? The fans made HOTU? WOWSERS! That's news to me!

[Drakron]

It was not right after ...

 

BioWare open their forums a short time after the break up that was about 30 October 2001, due to (I presume) prume I can no longer find the anoucement of the inclusion of that feature and so I must rely on my memory.

 

NwN was released in 06/16/02 and the beta was about one month before so we have about May as to final engine gameplay decisions being made and implemented.

 

Now we all remenber that Inforgrames did not jump three days after the break up and not much work was being done (I recall a BioWare staff menber saying until Inforgrames come they were talking about if it was possible to scrap the D&D and Forgotten Realms out of the game) so let add a month and we have from November to May the time of Pause and Play was intruduced was about 6 months.

 

That is well within the inicial QA run of testing gameplay.

[Karzak]

Really Karzak? The fans made HOTU? WOWSERS! That's news to me!

Still as much of a slavering fanboy as ever I see volo. When were multiple henchmen first added to NWN?

 

Hint, it wasn't by the bioweenies.

[Karzak]

LOL, you is sounding more like little volo every day.

 

Lets see, you do a 3e expansion, and you don't think to add epic levels and PrCs yourself, but do it cause the fans ask? LOL, that is so stupid, what the hell else could they add? Oh, thats right, drow, thats a new thought in D&D games

 

You is sounding pretty funny fanboy grommy. Everything in D&D was requested as some point, but it don't mean thats why they were in any of bios games to anyone but you. Oh, and volo.

 

 

The rest of us can look at it without stars in our eyes and see the truth, Bio doesn't take fan input, but when some designers choice matches some fan input they are happy to say they did.

[Iolo]

He's still bitter about theif 2 weapon style.

 

I guess BIO decided ona whim to add multiple henchmen HOTU, and it wasn't included because of the masses of people asking for it.

 

As has been mentioned, BIo's biggest problem is not that they don't listen to the fans; is they listen to the fans TOO MUCH.

LOL volo, Bio didn't add multiple henchmen, fans did.

 

You fanboys id funny!

You're incorrect. There was a multiple henchmen hackpak before HOTU came out but it was a hack. It was implemented by each henchman having a henchman themselves. This means you couldn't directly control any henchman but the first one using the menus/inventory/etc. The hakpak worked around this using dialogue. HOTU is a real multiple henchmen implementation because they changed the internals. Of course, they probably wouldn't have made the change in HOTU if it hadn't been for the previous hakpack.

[Kevin Lynch]

<_< As usual, a topic hijacked by the motley crew of old-timers who argue the same points relentlessly and repeatedly, driving most everyone else away from the thread. Have some courtesy and take your off-topic posts to their own thread or into private messages.

 

Of course, maybe the new folks here haven't yet tired of the pedantic babble and find it wildly entertaining.

[tripleRRR]

The trick is to post when the thread is still on topic, then ignore it when the hardcore die hards take over.

 

 

TripleRRR

[severxsever]

How did KotOR fail?

 

 

It didn't have any Ewaks.

[Gromnir]

post before krazy does, or all is lost.

 

as for nwn and pause... qa is a process that started long time before game shipped. this is not uncommon. is not like they hold off on qa until they gots a final build.

 

regardless, you folks can keep arguing exact dates on pause and at same time simply ignore epic levels and PrCs and drow/underdark stuff and robes, and the literally hundreds of things we seen added to bio games at fan behest, or you can try to distinguish each of those things individually and find some bizarre excuse for why bio woulda' added anyway w/o no fan input. for one or two items you can rationalize to yourself... but how you can do with so many other things is requiring some powers of self delusion that is far beyond Gromnir.

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Judge Hades]

The question here is does it really freaking matter? So what Bioware put things in the game that was fan first. Not everyone uses hakpaks and other crap like that. They added material to the game so that it wouldn't require the use of hakpaks and thats the best reason to get them. WHo cares if the fans demanded them, made them first, or if they like pink flamengoes. They put it in the main game and players of the game can use them without hakpaks.

 

Besides Karzak, why do you even give a rat's ass about Bioware games? Last I checked you don't even like the games they have made.

[Volourn]

Yet, like you, he continues to buy and play them. You twoa re the biggest fanboys ever.

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

I dont see how anyone could say that KOTOR failed. Things could be improved but thats true of any game and hardly constitutes failure.

 

Biowares great strength seems to be that it can appeal to your average buyer while at the same time not alienating all but the most radical fans of the genre.

 

In which case Bioware has little to gain and much to lose by listening to such radicals.

As a business model its hard to fault the one Bioware has adopted.

[Drakron]

As a RPG it failed on several areas, as I pointed out.

 

Games that are made for the "adverage" casual player tend to be adverage at best (such as DX2:IW) and I think a lot of SWKotOR success comes from being the first Star Wars cRPG, we simply dont have other Star Wars cRPGs to judge SWKotOR and so we are forced to look at cRPGs in general and despite all NwN flaws its a better cRPG in many areas that SWKotOR.

 

Even if this article was about Squaresoft it applies to all fanboys.

 

Squaresoft has always had a particularly vocal group of fanboys. There are people who would probably fight to their death attempting to "protect" the name of this software company who doesn't give a crap about them or how much their product is worshipped by nutballs on the Internet. So why are these people so adamant about defending a game franchise? Don't they have anything else to do? Isn't there anything else in their lives or are they forced to attach their tiny egos to a successful game company and then absorb any insult to this company as if it was personally directed towards them? We've never understood the Internet fanboy mentality and probably never will.

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

Squaresoft has always had a particularly vocal group of fanboys. There are people who would probably fight to their death attempting to "protect" the name of this software company who doesn't give a crap about them or how much their product is worshipped by nutballs on the Internet. So why are these people so adamant about defending a game franchise? Don't they have anything else to do? Isn't there anything else in their lives or are they forced to attach their tiny egos to a successful game company and then absorb any insult to this company as if it was personally directed towards them? We've never understood the Internet fanboy mentality and probably never will.

LOL thats a good one.

 

I remember being at ground zero for the Kingdom Hearts battle. At the end of the day they are going to make whatever they like and do whatever they want to do. Very little reason to change when you are on the sort of winning streak Bioware and Squenix are on.