How did KotOR fail?

[Darque]

It's an insanely popular RPG, and in my opinion one of the best made... but it still has it's faults... every game does...

 

So how exactly did KotOR fail for you? We have to give the devs ideas on how to not screw up the next one right?

[Drakron]

What to start with ...

 

Well lets start with mini games, they were dificult and/or anoying without adding anything to the game experiance.

 

Now in relation to gameplay they could have made it a FPS and its play the same, skills were made relative useless and every class could do everything, it destroyed most of replay factor.

 

Also planets were simply too many with too little.

[Judge Hades]

I have to agree with Drakron. Those were many of the same problems I had as well as Bastilla stealing the show. I mean, it seem that the PC was really not needed at certain points of the game.

[Atreides]

To me the mini-games were okay, sometimes addictive like Pazaak. They weren't integeral to the main story, so if a player didn't like them they could just ignore them.

 

The problem as far as the mini-games was making the starship shootout on board the Hawk compulsory to the continuation of the game. Some players couldn't cope and understandably they were upset when they couldn't progress.

 

Other than that, there's not many significant things wrong IMO.

 

Btw, put in DDR, Guitarfreaks or something as a minigame

[Kevin Lynch]

If I was to pick one problem out about KotOR, it'd be the lack of character customization and development choices. Replayability with very different types of characters is crucial for enjoyment of an RPG for me, and I found that after a couple of times through KotOR, I didn't really have any interest in running through it again simply because my character would end up being much like a previous one.

[Volourn]

Ultra crap controls. :angry:

[mkreku]

Agh, I have to agree with Volourn about the controls. Why not give it MOUSELOOK, hello?!

 

Anyhow, the part that disturbed me the most were the miniscule maps. I like to explore, get lost, get back on track and so on. That's mostly where I find enjoyment in games. KotOR was so incredibly simple I could probably have walked through the entire game blindfolded. At times it just felt like one long corridor with little rooms (worlds) placed behind doors here and there.

[Darque]

Mouselook would have been golden.

 

I remember flipping my character around to get the best views on each map.... sucks to have all that scenery and no way to appreciate it.

[~Di]

Hmm... my first thought was that KotOR didn't fail; it did exactly what I perceived it wanted to do, and did it brilliantly.

 

And yet if I was in charge of the KotOR world, there would have been some changes. Bastila, for example, and the obvious parallels in story between NWN and KotOR, which were blatant enough to make me spew coffee in spots.

 

I wish KotOR had more replayability, but realize that wasn't possible inside the strict regimen of such a rich, detailed story. I would have kicked the aggragating mini-games that HAD to be accomplished to push the game forward. I hate twitch mini-games. Hate them, hate them, hate them. Oh, yes, I WAS the champion swoop racer in all the universe... but that was through my choice. I don't want to be forced into twitchy mini-games in order to survive the game itself.

 

I would have made Carth my lover. Enough of this teasing crap. You enthalled with me, Carth baby? Strip down and show me. (Okay, I'm bad... but y'all asked).

 

The controls were not bad, and the combat was fun. Kind of. For a while. There were a few memorable battles at the end game that made me flush with excitement, but mostly combat was just a casually enjoyable queing of various moves to see the result. There are a few other things too, but despite it all, KotOR was a magnificent gaming experience. I just wish it was one I could enjoy more than once.

 

No, I won't do the dark side. Why is another topic.

[Atreides]

You could force Carth to strip with Force Persuade, but that would lead to the Dark Side.

[Drakron]

I wish KotOR had more replayability, but realize that wasn't possible inside the strict regimen of such a rich, detailed story.

 

Well that is not true, it is possible as many games done without losing the focus of the story.

 

Let me put this away.

 

What happen if BioWare actually implemented "diplomacy" and "intimidate" insated of the generalist "persuade" and make Guardians having intimidate as a class skill and Consulars having diplomacy.

 

Well there are many parts of the game were see diplomacy and intimidation and so since there was a seperation those parts would play diferently since the "dump points in Persuade, the only skill that matters" would not been possible.

 

Now another, what happened if there was no "computer spikes" and hacking computers was *gasp* depening on skill, so indead of being a matter of how many spikes we would have DC for diferent funtion access so having high computer use would not be "uses one less spike for every 4 points in the skill".

 

Same with repair and all other skills.

 

There is little replay factor not because of the story (that is not much diferent from BG1) but because of gameplay that offers no diference.

[Gorth]

Since I haven't completed it yet, my main gripe is the controls... horrible

 

Second worst part, the not optional arcade game sequences. If they want more action in the game, add some more moves like jump, crawl etc. and let the game be an advanced Tomb Raider/RPG mix. I love the exploration part.

 

Third gripe, how about some quick weapon keys ? Like Ctrl+1 for weapon combo 1, Ctrl+2 for weapon combo 2 etc. (perhaps I've played too much Quake II)

 

Apart from that, brilliant game

[Darque]

I have to agree, the player was helped along big time.

 

They should have implemented the ruleset FAR better than they did... hopefully whoever is making KotOR 2 B) will do a FAR better job of it

[Iolo]

The implementation of Force Powers in Star Wars D20 uses skills (Force Choke and Force Lightning are both skills I think for instance) and feats and uses up Vitality Points each time you use a Force Power. There are also Wound Points on top of your VP and the Wound Points are just your constitution value I think. Would you prefer this system or BioWare's mana force powers system?

[Darque]

As I went out and bought the d20 books (about 8 of them) during and after playing KotOR... I think I will keep my original statement... Better rules implementation would be better.

 

If you're going to fake something, you might as well just start from scratch rather than use a bastardized version.

[Iolo]

That's true. I was more interested in people's opinion of the D20 Star Wars system and it's use of vitality points (AKA hit points in D&D) when using Force Powers and why you think BioWare didn't use this system.

[Darque]

Ah!

 

Ok, why didn't bioware use it? Because it was easier to implement the watered down version in the upgraded NWN engine?

 

Also, using VP to power your force powers would make you think twice about spamming force power attacks

 

Once I hit level 15 (and aquired Force Wave) if not for the VERY cool story.... I would have been bored.

 

Do you realize as a consular, I Force waved Malak to death and didn't even need to heal during the final battle?

 

This is why combat in KotOR was closer to a shooter than a more standard RPG system.

[Iolo]

I was a consular as well.

 

It's a balancing thing to use vitality points for Force Powers since Jedi classes do generally outshine non Jedi classes. If anything, BioWare's implementation was MUCH too easy.

[Darque]

Agreed to the nth degree.

 

That's what KotOR 2 needs. Balance.

[Iolo]

If Delaware is KOTOR2, my guess would be that the format and the balancing wouldn't change much. BioWare would be responsible for the engine and Obsidian responsible for the story and content. Hopefully, it would work better than the interaction beween BioWare and Floodgate did for SOTU.

 

Now if Obsidian did a Star Wars game with the KOTOR engine but it wasn't KOTOR2 that might be a different story. Imagine a PST type game by MCA and the rest using the KOTOR engine.

[Darque]

Now that could be interesting.

 

Still wish for better rules implementation though

[Iolo]

I suspect this would be the wrong forum to get the rules implementation to change. BioWare's KOTOR forums would probably be the best place. BioWare think they have a winning formula and would be unwilling to change unless they saw a lot of posts otherwise.

[Darque]

I guess we'll have to see how it plays out once it's announced... I don't want to fire off threads until I'm sure of the target

 

<edited for mixed up words... me sleepy>

[Iolo]

In all honest, if Delaware is KOTOR2, I think it will be a mixed bag.

 

Maybe you should get some sleep.

[Karzak]

Combat in KotOR was crap. For a game with so much of it they could have tried to make it interesting.

 

The way you couldn't use drain life on townspeople was annoying. In fact the whole story implementation felt forced and unnatural to my PC.