KotoR 3: Ideas and Suggestions

[Haitoku]

If K3 is developed properly to its potential, it could be the best SW game ever made, and heck, it could even be better than some of the movies

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If you're thinking of the new trilogy, then that won't be hard at all.

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I'm I the only one who thought that both KOTOR destroy either trilogy in terms of story? :ph34r:

[DAWUSS]

My thoughts on K3 (which I'm writing out in a full story at the moment) basically starts off with the Exile and T3-M4 arriving on the Jedi Temple on Coruscant where she goes to inform the Jedi Council (currently trying to figure out how many there will be at the moment) that she's going to find Revan in the Unknown Regions. She leaves T3-M4 behind (as Kreia foretold) as the Ebon Hawk vanishes from the skies of Coruscant.

 

Enter Bynne Miba, a 32 year-old Republic Senator from Corellia who is trying to hold a crumbling Republic in one piece. And during this time, there are Senators who want to take advantage of a crumbling Republic for their own agenda, and there are those who, like Miba are attempting to do what they can to keep the Republic intact (though aren't as corrupt about doing it as Goto).

 

Basically it'll deal with the stories of the Republic and the story of Revan and the True Sith

[Dark Moth]

If K3 is developed properly to its potential, it could be the best SW game ever made, and heck, it could even be better than some of the movies

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If you're thinking of the new trilogy, then that won't be hard at all.

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I'm I the only one who thought that both KOTOR destroy either trilogy in terms of story? :ph34r:

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K1 did. K2 didn't.

[Gabrielle]

My thoughts on K3 (which I'm writing out in a full story at the moment) basically starts off with the Exile and T3-M4 arriving on the Jedi Temple on Coruscant where she goes to inform the Jedi Council (currently trying to figure out how many there will be at the moment) that she's going to find Revan in the Unknown Regions. She leaves T3-M4 behind (as Kreia foretold) as the Ebon Hawk vanishes from the skies of Coruscant.

 

Enter Bynne Miba, a 32 year-old Republic Senator from Corellia who is trying to hold a crumbling Republic in one piece. And during this time, there are Senators who want to take advantage of a crumbling Republic for their own agenda, and there are those who, like Miba are attempting to do what they can to keep the Republic intact (though aren't as corrupt about doing it as Goto).

 

Basically it'll deal with the stories of the Republic and the story of Revan and the True Sith

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Sounds like a good idea so far.

 

Except the Ebon Hawk part. I think it was time it was retired.

[Dark Moth]

I think the Ebon Hawk is here to stay. It's going to be a running theme, like the droids and the Millenium Falcon in the movie trilogy.

[Gabrielle]

I think the Ebon Hawk is here to stay.  It's going to be a running theme, like the droids and the Millenium Falcon in the movie trilogy.

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*sigh* I suppose it would be true to stick with a gimmick.

[DAWUSS]

I left the Ebon Hawk with the Exile (primarily as I have not much use for it), and I have no intention of giving it to the Corellian Senator. Perhaps it could be retired mid-game or something, I don't know yet

[Haitoku]

If K3 is developed properly to its potential, it could be the best SW game ever made, and heck, it could even be better than some of the movies

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

If you're thinking of the new trilogy, then that won't be hard at all.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

I'm I the only one who thought that both KOTOR destroy either trilogy in terms of story? :ph34r:

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

K1 did. K2 didn't.

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Wrong, K2 especially, since it doesn't have a Star Wars storyline... since those always suck.

Edited January 20, 2006 by Haitoku

[Wild Storm]

Carth doesn't need a woman companion - he needs a slap upside the head. Or a mother. Just someone to tell him to stop sulking and acting like an adolescent.

 

Disciple just... needs to get a life.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yeesh. I dozed off for awhile. Anyway, after your planet has just been blown to smithereens (not like Alderann of course) which took down your wife and presumbly, your mother. Your going to be pretty pissed and sulky. Seriously. Wouldn't you be a just a little depressed if someone vaporized your mother and wife?

[Dark Moth]

K1 did.  K2 didn't. 

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Wrong, K2 especially, since it doesn't have a Star Wars storyline... since those always suck.

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Right. K1's storyline was actually interesting and complete. K2 could have been better than its predecessor, but wasn't. And no, I didn't care about it not being a "star warsy" story, I just thought it was poorly written.

Edited January 20, 2006 by Mothman

[Haitoku]

K1 did.  K2 didn't. 

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Wrong, K2 especially, since it doesn't have a Star Wars storyline... since those always suck.

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Right. K1's storyline was actually interesting and complete. K2 could have been better than its predecessor, but wasn't. And no, I didn't care about it not being a "star warsy" story, I just thought it was poorly written.

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Well, I don't agree. I found KOTOR Is story to be rather shallow and pretty predictable. I played it once through and that was enough. KOTOR IIs kept me on my toes and really made me think about the things I was doing. That hole missing chunk didn't really bother me all that much...

Edited January 20, 2006 by Haitoku

[Jack the Ripper]

K1 did.  K2 didn't. 

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Wrong, K2 especially, since it doesn't have a Star Wars storyline... since those always suck.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Right. K1's storyline was actually interesting and complete. K2 could have been better than its predecessor, but wasn't. And no, I didn't care about it not being a "star warsy" story, I just thought it was poorly written.

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Well, I don't agree. I found KOTOR Is story to be rather shallow and pretty predictable. I played it once through and that was enough. KOTOR IIs kept me on my toes and really made me think about the things I was doing. That hole missing chunk didn't really bother me all that much...

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They were both good.[/argument]

 

These are my fantasies for KotOR3:

1. KotOR is great at getting the characters right, most of the time. The only honest to goodness thorn in my side in the whole franchise was Juhanti, and players were given not one, but two opportunities to kill her (thanks, Bioware!).

 

Keep doing what you guys are doing, and keep introducing us to more lovable rogues like Jolee Bindo and more well rounded bad guys I can identify with, like Darth Sion. Even without their personalities, motivations and respective histories, your Sith characters are ominous and beautiful. I was hit by a car on my eighteenth birthday, and when I first saw Sion, I thought to myself that he looked like I'd felt.

 

1a. Reoccuring characters. Duh, HK-47 must be in, and Canderous Ordo should also make another return. But also, it's been a few years, hasn't it? Mission Veo has very probably blossomed into a beautiful young Twi'lek woman by now, and I'd love to see her strut her stuff with a more buxom character model, and see how her Ponyboy tuff attitude has developed now that she's full grown and has been on her own for the past few years.

 

2. More Ayn Rand subtext. Kreia, Mira and Atton were the most compelling characters in a non-movie Star Wars franchise since Kyle Katarn got interesting in Dark Forces II. Turn the whine down on Atton a bit in the next game, and we'll all be happy campers. Apparitions of Kreia would also be nice. Hell, give us more subtext overall. I don't know what the board policy is about religion and politics, yet, but I must say this: all the dialogue about soldiers fighting an unpopular war among civilians, yet still supporting the cause they fought for? Hauntingly similar to a lot of the sentiments of veterans of the Iraq and Vietnam wars.

 

3. Firmly establish canon! Show us Revan and the Exile's true faces and sexes, give them voices. Hell, give them names. I think it would be a real kick in the pants if Bao Dur ever referred to the exile as "General Kenobi."

 

3a. The Exile should be the main character. Obsidian went to great lengths to let players know that, yes, the exile had an exciting and sorrow ridden past, with war comrades who loved him and fought for him scattered across the galaxy from Onderon to Telos, just as Indiana Jones had friends in every country from Nepal to Cairo. He had a failed love life, he ordered soldiers to their deaths, he believed in fighting real threats instead of sitting idle, considering that act to being complicit to civilian deaths by inaction. Truly a noble and romantic figure. There was no amnesiac soap opera gimmicks, no "my past doesn't matter" BS. The exile was a very well developed character in his own right, and it intrigued players to try and notice enough details to make sense about who this person was and what made him the way he is.

 

By the end of TSL, the Exile is most undoubtedly a very powerful Jedi. Nobody wants to start a game as a level twenty badass, as that would take all of the challenge out of the episode. But how does a multiple war veteran and the first official Jedi Master in the new Jedi order get busted back down to being a level one consular again? I have a theory. With his severance from his force bond to Kreia, I would assume the General would lose his leeched affinity for the force, and have to rebuild it yet again. As he's just remastering things he already knew, this could come fairly easily as our man leveled up.

 

4. New dialogue system and full voice. Yes, even for the main PC. We aren't living in the age of rampant thirty-two bit Japanese RPGs any more, subtitles aren't good enough. Come on, give Rino Romero some work.

 

4a. Instead of clearly making it flat out obvious what our character is going to say, how about limiting responses to the four face buttons and surprising us with pithy and witty banter. Y can be for light side responses, A can be dark side, and X and B could be more neutral variations of the two. I always find it a lot more interesting when I don't know what a character is exactly going to say, like that famous line from Casablanca, "I am shocked, SHOCKED..." I won't ruin the rest of the quote for people who haven't seen the film, but that moment had me roaring with laughter. And who can forget the shock in Empire Strikes Back when Darth Vader utters that infamous line, "*I* am your father," to a disgraced and defeated Luke Skywalker? Having moments like those would really make second and third play throughs more interesting, and add more to the cinematic feel of the game.

 

4b. More animations, dammit. And better one's, too. If I see someone waving their hand around one more time like they're trying to greet me as the Sultan of Brunei while talking to me about the next FedEx quest I'm going to be doing in KotOR3, I swear to God that I will headbutt my television. The character models were totally devoid of emotion. The lip synch was okay, but the only way you could tell a character was happy or sad, distressed or humbled, was in their voice. I vaguely recall some brow furrowing. These puppets are your actors, make them act. I know Hayden Christiansen doesn't provide fantastic inspiration, but come on. Atton's death scene could have been beautiful - or, it could have been pathetic. I want to see more death animations, a lot more combat animations, realistic conversation animations, and overall be convinced that this isn't just a hodgepodge of fantastically rendered polygons on my computer, this is a character I can fall in love with, or hate, or cheer for. The voice actors are only half the battle.

 

5. New camera system for combat. Keep the traditional version, but why not add an option to activate something a bit more dramatic? When I first got into a fight on that starship in KotOR, and saw my character duck and dodge like Han Solo among all those flying blaster bolts, I thought it was brilliant. But that only fascinated me for about twelve seconds, before I started trying to make my character dodge behind walls, or move out of the way of sure to hit blaster fire, and failed miserably at it. It was boring. Eventually I, like most people, mainly spammed the flurry button or critical hit button as much as I could, and this one move is what got me through the entire game. The combat system in TSL, as it was essentially the same thing, was also boring despite all of the new animations. I'd like to see an option for dramatic camera angles to be presented during combat - zooming in on two jedi locked between their sabers in a struggle to overpower one another, showing the path of a blaster bolt from where it fired to where it hit, etc.

 

5a. I love the D&D system. You love the D&D system. We all do. But holy crap on a stick, how the Hell did my character defeat a guy with a gun sticking in his chest with the toothpick of a vibrosword he wielded? Come on. I'd like to see some *slightly* more realistic combat. A guy with a knife rushes a guy with a gun.

 

 

6. This is a bit of a stretch, but how about expanding the RPG system to after Yavin? I'd love to see a Knights of the New Republic game some day, maybe featuring the Luke and the Solo kids on one of their many little adventures. The arc wherein Anakin (SPOILER) Solo died was particularly heartbreaking, and full of exactly the right emotional content and side stories that KotOR was great at delivering in both games.

 

Edit:

 

7. I almost forgot. The Ebon Hawk. The Millenium Falcon. Two scrap heaps that seem to find trouble where ever each of them go - or is it because they are the same ship and share the same curse? Give players a sidequest storyline to upgrade chunks of the Ebon Hawk at various starports across the galaxy, showing the first of many preludes to what will one day become the toughest little bucket of bolts this side of an Imperial blockade.

 

Also, hello.

Edited January 20, 2006 by Jack the Ripper

[DAWUSS]

By the end of TSL, the Exile is most undoubtedly a very powerful Jedi.  Nobody wants to start a game as a level twenty badass, as that would take all of the challenge out of the episode.  But how does a multiple war veteran and the first official Jedi Master in the new Jedi order get busted back down to being a level one consular again?  I have a theory.  With his severance from his force bond to Kreia, I would assume the General would lose his leeched affinity for the force, and have to rebuild it yet again.  As he's just remastering things he already knew, this could come fairly easily as our man leveled up.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

My idea was to just introduce a new PC during that meantime of developing your character to where the new PC is around lvl 20-25 when you begin to take control of the Exile again.

 

 

Besides, I think people have gotten irritated with the whole "I once knew the Force but somehow I lost it" scenario

[Judge Hades]

The Exile can't be the main character in 3 because he or she is now a force god. Somewhere in the late 20's early 30's in level on a normal play throgh and that is without proper epic rules for Star Wars when there aren't any. I don't particularly feel like starting the game as a freaking god.

[Jack the Ripper]

The Exile can't be the main character in 3 because he or she is now a force god.  Somewhere in the late 20's early 30's in level on a normal play throgh and that is without proper epic rules for Star Wars when there aren't any.  I don't particularly feel like starting the game as a freaking god.

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Did you read my post?

 

By the end of TSL, the Exile is most undoubtedly a very powerful Jedi. Nobody wants to start a game as a level twenty badass, as that would take all of the challenge out of the episode. But how does a multiple war veteran and the first official Jedi Master in the new Jedi order get busted back down to being a level one consular again? I have a theory. With his severance from his force bond to Kreia, I would assume the General would lose his leeched affinity for the force, and have to rebuild it yet again. As he's just remastering things he already knew, this could come fairly easily as our man leveled up.

 

An alternative: You start the game as a level twenty badass, but your affinity for the force slowly leaves you. The more experience your main character gets, the more he levels DOWN. When he reaches level 5 or so, he can start building himself back up again from whatever class the player picks in the beginning of the game, like Rogue or Soldier.

 

And also:

 

8. Make the force and lightsaber use totally optional. I really loved playing a double fisted Jango Fett-esque gunslinger in TSL. In fact, I didn't use any saber forms throughout that entire play through. I barely even used any force powers either. Give characters an option to totally reject the Jedi and the Sith, and instead give him more abilities like precise shot that would further aide in Jedi hunting. Also, integrating this into the story, how an average man with slightly above average abilities could defeat force users, could be very, very interesting. It could also bring some tactics and forethought to the game, as players could set traps to lure Jedi into, kind of like the old setting up mines while cloaked method from TSL. New variations of that sort of method - like luring Jedi to cross trip wires, get slammed by a violently malfunctioning doors, or lead into a very suddenly opening airlock, etc., could also be really fun. I call this the Atton Rand strategy.

Edited January 20, 2006 by Jack the Ripper

[Weiser_Cain]

Half the fun is in building your character.

[Jack the Ripper]

Half the fun is in building your character.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I think "half" is either being very generous, or is a sad commentary on what you thought of KotOR's overall gameplay, but I agree with your sentiment that building a character can be fun.

 

But I hate characters that might as well be totally faceless and nameless. Darth Revan started two wars and brought the Sith back from extinction, and nobody remembers if Revan was male or female just a few years later? That's ludicrous.

 

I also think the character should be well established and have a rich backstory to make for interesting personal development. Further development of the character should be left entirely in the hands of the player until the next game, with the character's past actions having lasting effects on what options a character has in responding to particular situations.

 

I also think choosing a head for your character is silly. Cosmetic customization of things like hair, muscle build, tattoos, clothing, etc. isn't too ludicrous in my eyes. But if a guy is going to bring the Jedi back from the brink while being hunted by the Sith, bounty hunters, the Republic, and entire planetary militaries, I'm betting that a couple people are going to remember his basic facial features.

 

Full customization of all the characters' abilities should be available, but shouldn't be a complete necessity. Not everyone likes trying to figure out how their stats will effect the dozens of D&D algebra formulas. The auto-level up defaults were sorry in KotOR, never tried it in KotOR2. Why the Hell would I want gearhead for my soldier? A better auto level up system would be nice, maybe each time asking what aspect of their character a player would like to focus on (combat, force, intelligence), and allowing the game to make decisions from there. As much as I loved Mission's personality, she was totally useless in a fight, and I found myself using autolevel up in quite a few circumstances. That didn't seem to help her survival chances very much. She was the Robin to my Batman, in that her brightly colored clothing served little use except to draw enemy fire away from me.

[DAWUSS]

The Exile can't be the main character in 3 because he or she is now a force god.  Somewhere in the late 20's early 30's in level on a normal play throgh and that is without proper epic rules for Star Wars when there aren't any.  I don't particularly feel like starting the game as a freaking god.

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My idea was to play someone else up until the area where you would be around that level so when the Exile does join the party, she's not the unbalanced individual

[Yoshi]

I think the PC won't be neither Revan nor Exile. However, it is possible that at the end of the game they will join our party in order to destroy the archvillain (The Dark Lord of the true Sith posssibly).

 

I must admit that it's strange... since there can be only one Dark Lord at a time, yet someone had to rule the remnants of the true Sith after Great Hyperspace War. So... what with Exar Kun? The title was given to him by the spirit of the mighty Marka Ragnos (and other Sith spirits!). The spirits must have been aware of the fact that on the Unknown Regions are his 'brothers', who survived the war. So, if there was a Dark Lord of the true Sith, how could they give the title to Kun? :/

[Jediphile]

The Exile can't be the main character in 3 because he or she is now a force god.  Somewhere in the late 20's early 30's in level on a normal play throgh and that is without proper epic rules for Star Wars when there aren't any.  I don't particularly feel like starting the game as a freaking god.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

My idea was to play someone else up until the area where you would be around that level so when the Exile does join the party, she's not the unbalanced individual

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Yes, I was thinking along similar lines, which is why I prefer a new jedi character whose quest it eventually becomes to find the Exile and Revan.

[Judge Hades]

I hat this "true" part of when you guys talk about the Sith. You are either a sith or you are not.

[Jediphile]

I think the PC won't be neither Revan nor Exile. However, it is possible that at the end of the game they will join our party in order to destroy the archvillain (The Dark Lord of the true Sith posssibly).

 

I must admit that it's strange... since there can be only one Dark Lord at a time, yet someone had to rule the remnants of the true Sith after Great Hyperspace War. So... what with Exar Kun? The title was given to him by the spirit of the mighty Marka Ragnos (and other Sith spirits!). The spirits must have been aware of the fact that on the Unknown Regions are his 'brothers', who survived the war. So, if there was a Dark Lord of the true Sith, how could they give the title to Kun? :/

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I suppose we could argue that this was a early stage in a plan for the true Sith to weaken the Republic enough to later invade it. The next stage was then the Mandalorian Wars, which led to dissent in the jedi order that become the Jedi Civil War, and so on and so forth...

 

EDIT: Mea culpa - I forgot that we're in the KotOR era, which means that the "only one Dark Lord" doesn't apply since it wasn't established until several millennia later. In fact, the Sith empire fell exactly because both Marka Ragnos and Naga Sadow were the Dark Lord and the same time, didn't it?

Edited January 20, 2006 by Jediphile

[Jediphile]

I hat this "true" part of when you guys talk about the Sith.  You are either a sith or you are not.

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It's a bit of a misnomer. It doesn't that they're not Sith, just that they are descendants of the ancient Sith and never served Exar Kun or Ulic Qel-Droma or even Darth Revan or Malak. But we need a term to identify them as such, and since they are what remains of the old Sith empire, "true Sith" is not so bad... Doesn't mean they're significantly different from Exar and the others, though.

[Yoshi]

Wooops... you're mistaken. Lord Kaan (1000 BBY) proclaimed all most powerful memebrs of the Brotherhood of Darkness DARK LORD OS THE SITH (stupid for me, but... it's canonical)*. Prior to that moment there could be only one Dark Lord... and other were merely Sith Lords (who eventually created a Sith Council as portrayed in Dark Horse Comcs concering the Great Hyperspace War).

 

So, there is a problem with the title. If there was a dark Lord of the true Sith... then Revan was an usurpator. :D

 

*So Palaptine was a Dark Lord of the Sith, Maul, Tyranus and Vader also... However, Palpatine held the title of Sith Master, the others - Sith Apprentice.

Edited January 20, 2006 by Yoshi

[Elyk sith maurder]

i also think it would be realy cool if after you beat the game you unlock like a twi-lek you play the game as a twi-lek and you have new diologe options and once you beat the game as a twi-lek you could play as another alien but that would take a lot of memo but at least it will give me something to get me to find out (w00t)