moreKOTORplz Posted January 23, 2006 Posted January 23, 2006 I also would like better-written characters this time. And I think the whole "I have to kill/hurt you to help you" theme was milked dry, so get rid of it or at least reduce it in K3. We saw that concept used for Kreia, Revan, Atton, Hanharr, and GO-TO. It got old after a while. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> the characters were solid in K2 i think. I thought kriea was well done, but i do agree the concept of good and evil is not fluid enough. I hate having to do things that counter my intention to get influence or a favorable outcome. It would be nice as you progress you could gain special dialogue skills through class progression like manipulation for example were you get DS points for corupting your peers or doing light side acts in the name of the evil.
alanschu Posted January 23, 2006 Posted January 23, 2006 I think that that is the point of the influence system. In that if you wanted to make a choice, you had to accept the consequences of not influencing someone.
DAWUSS Posted January 23, 2006 Posted January 23, 2006 I also would like better-written characters this time. And I think the whole "I have to kill/hurt you to help you" theme was milked dry, so get rid of it or at least reduce it in K3. We saw that concept used for Kreia, Revan, Atton, Hanharr, and GO-TO. It got old after a while. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> the characters were solid in K2 i think. I thought kriea was well done, but i do agree the concept of good and evil is not fluid enough. I hate having to do things that counter my intention to get influence or a favorable outcome. It would be nice as you progress you could gain special dialogue skills through class progression like manipulation for example were you get DS points for corupting your peers or doing light side acts in the name of the evil. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> If so, then perhaps there should also be times where can you can lose party members where they may leave due to influence being so far against you, they may die at your hands intentionally or unintentionally (DS if intentional), or other times where you must make a choice as to who ends up in your party (similar to Mira/Hanharr; Mical/Brianna) DAWUSS Dawes ain't too bright. Hitting rock bottom is when you leave 2 tickets on the dash of your car, leave it unlocked hoping someone will steal them & when you come back, there are 4 tickets on your dashboard.
Gabrielle Posted January 23, 2006 Posted January 23, 2006 The influence syetem is good, they need to do it better in dialogues. If you turned Mira over to DS than she should have the dialogues for it, and not complain when you do evil deeds. Since your character is corrupting them, they are not going to care after a while what happens to some fool who got in your way.
alanschu Posted January 23, 2006 Posted January 23, 2006 Definitely. The influence system wasn't fully fleshed out, and the fact that their dialogues didn't really change was a letdown. I'm not too worried about plot specific dialogues changing, but I wouldn't want Mira chastizing me for being mean, when she has more DS points than I do.
Gabrielle Posted January 23, 2006 Posted January 23, 2006 Definitely. The influence system wasn't fully fleshed out, and the fact that their dialogues didn't really change was a letdown. I'm not too worried about plot specific dialogues changing, but I wouldn't want Mira chastizing me for being mean, when she has more DS points than I do. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Not only if she has more DS than you, but she's the one that cut down the fool while you just watched. Who's hands are bloodied by the innocent now?
alanschu Posted January 23, 2006 Posted January 23, 2006 (edited) It could also make redemption of a DS to LS more interesting as well. Though stuff like that is usually better implemented as games are very often more "heroic" so to speak. But even Visas would get upset at you for being unnecessarily nice. Edited January 23, 2006 by alanschu
Gabrielle Posted January 23, 2006 Posted January 23, 2006 Visas had a long path of redemption if you were DS and trying to convert her over. The darkness in the heart is the hardest to show that there is a light at the end of the tunnel.
jclark1675 Posted January 24, 2006 Posted January 24, 2006 i would like to see more rewards or something else happen once u reach max lightside or darkside once u mastered it their wasnt a point of doin darkside or lightside lines
alanschu Posted January 24, 2006 Posted January 24, 2006 Well, your character became more powerful with full lightside or darkside. They'd get bonus attributes if lightside, and other effects if darkside. As for turning characters, I think my favourite conversation for Jedi conversion was Atton. I was hoping there was sooo much more to it though.
Judge Hades Posted January 24, 2006 Posted January 24, 2006 Why? Does he... turn on your lightsaber, if you know what I mean?
GhostofAnakin Posted January 24, 2006 Posted January 24, 2006 As for turning characters, I think my favourite conversation for Jedi conversion was Atton. I was hoping there was sooo much more to it though. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Atton seemed to accept it the best. Atleast from what I remember his responses once he went DS were the most "in character" with what one who was corrupted would say. "Console exclusive is such a harsh word." - Darque"Console exclusive is two words Darque." - Nartwak (in response to Darque's observation)
Plano Skywalker Posted January 24, 2006 Posted January 24, 2006 I don't really like "converting" people to LS or DS in-game. For one, I just don't think it is that realistic given the short amount of time that the companions have gotten to know the protagonist (and, I think it really did have something to do with who this protagonist was...otherwise, it just wasn't realistic). Also, most adventuring types are going to be pretty set in their ways and if they have some sort of epiphany, then they are probably going to stop adventuring, at least for a while. I have long said that the way to handle shipmate alignment is the same way BG does....party management...having a larger NPC pool than the max shipmate slots. That is the best way to handle alignment and crew, IMO. It also increases the replayability of the game a whole lot. What I do like is being able to influence NPCs either by agreeing with them (we all know about that approach) or by *persuading* them. It is that persuading part (in areas not related to alignment) that was not very well fleshed out. And it should be more than just finding a certain sequence of statements...the PC should be able to burn feat slots for this and should have lots of subtle techniques at his disposal..."you sound like someone who wants to sleep in the Engine Room"...OK, maybe that wasn't so subtle but tangible things, basically minor league bribes and blackmails as well as flattery (the system asks you if you want to intentionally allow Mandalore to win in the pistol range just so you can work his ego, etc) and just more chaotic dialogue options (without getting DS points!) would be very welcome in this area.
Weiser_Cain Posted January 24, 2006 Posted January 24, 2006 It is if you play as slowly as I do. Yaw devs, Yaw!!! (
Dyan Posted January 24, 2006 Posted January 24, 2006 "you sound like someone who wants to sleep in the Engine Room" <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Yes! Deciding where the NPCs stay on the ship! A definate must! :D HK47: Commentary: It is not possible to destroy the master. It is suggested that you run while my blasters warm, meatbags. Bastila to Revan: You are easily the vainest, most arrogant man I have ever met! Canderous to Bastila: Insults? Maybe if your master had trained your lightsaber to be as quick as your tongue you could have escaped those Vulkars, you spoiled little Jedi princess!
alanschu Posted January 24, 2006 Posted January 24, 2006 Why? Does he... turn on your lightsaber, if you know what I mean? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Because the conversation involving the turn was very well done. Unfortunately, I was never able to meaningfully speak to him again.
lordodark Posted January 24, 2006 Posted January 24, 2006 (edited) i want them to bring back vissas marr and handmaiden possibly as romantic intrestes to the exile if he is a npc or pc. i am anxious to see the force sesitives oin onderon. perhaps your character can be one of them Edited January 24, 2006 by lordodark
Jorian Drake Posted January 24, 2006 Posted January 24, 2006 I don't really like "converting" people to LS or DS in-game. For one, I just don't think it is that realistic given the short amount of time that the companions have gotten to know the protagonist (and, I think it really did have something to do with who this protagonist was...otherwise, it just wasn't realistic). Also, most adventuring types are going to be pretty set in their ways and if they have some sort of epiphany, then they are probably going to stop adventuring, at least for a while. I have long said that the way to handle shipmate alignment is the same way BG does....party management...having a larger NPC pool than the max shipmate slots. That is the best way to handle alignment and crew, IMO. It also increases the replayability of the game a whole lot. What I do like is being able to influence NPCs either by agreeing with them (we all know about that approach) or by *persuading* them. It is that persuading part (in areas not related to alignment) that was not very well fleshed out. And it should be more than just finding a certain sequence of statements...the PC should be able to burn feat slots for this and should have lots of subtle techniques at his disposal..."you sound like someone who wants to sleep in the Engine Room"...OK, maybe that wasn't so subtle but tangible things, basically minor league bribes and blackmails as well as flattery (the system asks you if you want to intentionally allow Mandalore to win in the pistol range just so you can work his ego, etc) and just more chaotic dialogue options (without getting DS points!) would be very welcome in this area. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Converting in KOTOR with main char is much easier becouse the main char is something important in the Force (real strong<Revan>; black hole<Exile>), and I suppose something like this will be the 3rd 'hero' too. And I like that
Jorian Drake Posted January 24, 2006 Posted January 24, 2006 i want them to bring back vissas marr and handmaiden possibly as romantic intrestes to the exile if he is a npc or pc. i am anxious to see the force sesitives oin onderon. perhaps your character can be one of them <{POST_SNAPBACK}> It would be interesting to see what changes happened on Onderon if LS/DS char wanted to open an academy there (and what ruler there is now)
lordodark Posted January 24, 2006 Posted January 24, 2006 i want them to bring back vissas marr and handmaiden possibly as romantic intrestes to the exile if he is a npc or pc. i am anxious to see the force sesitives oin onderon. perhaps your character can be one of them <{POST_SNAPBACK}> It would be interesting to see what changes happened on Onderon if LS/DS char wanted to open an academy there (and what ruler there is now) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> i think that at the begining of the game it should be possible to decide the ruler of onderon and the existece of an academy
Jorian Drake Posted January 24, 2006 Posted January 24, 2006 i want them to bring back vissas marr and handmaiden possibly as romantic intrestes to the exile if he is a npc or pc. i am anxious to see the force sesitives oin onderon. perhaps your character can be one of them <{POST_SNAPBACK}> It would be interesting to see what changes happened on Onderon if LS/DS char wanted to open an academy there (and what ruler there is now) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> i think that at the begining of the game it should be possible to decide the ruler of onderon and the existece of an academy <{POST_SNAPBACK}> YUP, and all other involved things too, as in KOTOR2 for 1st one :D
lordodark Posted January 24, 2006 Posted January 24, 2006 Question, is any 1 else sick of ppl ta;lkin bout how they wish that mission vao was bak cos she is no longer underage i mean c'mon she an animated character its a bit sad dont ya thunk???
Plano Skywalker Posted January 24, 2006 Posted January 24, 2006 Converting in KOTOR with main char is much easier becouse the main char is something important in the Force (real strong<Revan>; black hole<Exile>), and I suppose something like this will be the 3rd 'hero' too. And I like that <{POST_SNAPBACK}> didn't they have feats for Master/Lord that helped influence the party in this way? I think they did (even though you arguably did not need the feats to accomplish this). IMO, you should have to burn slots to even think about changing their alignments....otherwise, it is just too munchkinish and unrealistic. (Basically, more Mira/Hanharr situations would largely accomplish what I am talking about) The right implementation of subtle push/pull politics in areas not related to alignment would, I think, more than compensate for the lack of alignment-based influence. Alignment-based influence is the easy way out. The more nuanced stuff makes for better immersion and actually is a bit harder to implement but well worth it.
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