In What aspect is Kotor I better than II?

[Ancient Egypt]

True Spook

Your statement about Kotor & Kotor2 are pretty much on point.

I feel you explain it well

I feel very much the same way.

 

Mothman

I indeed agree with what you just stated as well

 

Ancient Egypt

[Grone]

More or less as Gorth stated: "KotOR II was a better roleplaying-experience, while KotOR I was the better game".

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

*COUGHS*

 

Better roleplaying-experience = better game.

 

KotORII is the best of the two in my mind.

 

See: http://forums.obsidianent.com/index.php?showtopic=33896&hl=

Edited January 3, 2006 by Grunker

[Bulgarian Jedi]

Well, both games are RPGs, so they both must be a role-playing experience.

But yes, K2 seems slightly better as role-play, but K1 is still good.

[Firebringer]

One thing I liked with Kotor 1 were all the different planets you travelled to. I found it very compelling to see a variarity of places during my time as a lightsaberwielding force user. The idea of visiting various planets is very smart and in my case enjoyable. Naturally Kotor 2 had quite a few planets which you could visit, but I wanted more of them, more places to visit.

 

As a final remark on the muched hoped for Kotor 3, I would like to see a better ending this time, but I can understand the developers. There is always a clock ticking in the background, a deadline. It is only a "small" thing to correct. Kotor1 and 2 really are two super games, no arguements from me and keep up the good work!

[daymar78]

I don't really feel there's a major difference in the role playing quality of the two games theoretically... practically I find it hard to feel like I'm really role playing if half my choices on what to do when are forced on me, several of my quests aren't doable and people or droids I interact with set up things that never come to pass or you unrealistically loop through dialogue ten times.

 

I ended up spending far more time in KOTOR2 thinking "did I miss something?" than actually being aware of what I or my character was up to. I did a lot of things because I knew it was probably what I was supposed to do next (or I was forced to do it next) without any kind of feeling as to WHY my character would be doing it at that point.

 

Also for me a "good" rpg has a worthwhile ending, doesn't mean it has to clear up everything or can't be a cliffhanger, but it should have a few minutes of movie and fill in at least the most obvious and huge "mysteries" or further the feeling of the people you've been dragging around in the party being "real" and not just extra firepower/scenery. Certainly I expected no answer to where Revan was etc. but I expected to see some kind of resolution to the whole Handmaiden/Visas Atton/Disciple issues, I expected some kind of "friends coming to help" thing at least when the mysteriously fixed Ebon Hawk comes to get you.

 

While it can be argued this isn't needed for role-playing, for me it is because with a "real" ending, even if it is open ended, I feel like I have a "real person" running around with other "real people" and not just a splotch of pixels who can hack through a bunch of enemies for no reason in order to kill someone at the end for a not-very-clear reason Game Over, and for me a good rpg ends with me feeling "connected" to the character I was playing and not with me feeling "right so guess I finished the game".

 

Long story, short point: For me KOTOR1 is the better RPG. KOTOR2 does of course have "nifty" features like the prestige class, turning your companions into jedi etc., but while I enjoy nifty features, I buy and rpg for the role playing. KOTOR2's influence system seemed a bit lacking also, for instance I've found only one way to ever gain influence with Mandalore and then there's the whole thing with the Handmaiden actually telling you less the more influence you have on her, go figure. A good idea, but one that needs more work.

 

Just so no one misunderstands me, I enjoy playing both games. I've replayed both, the start of KOTOR2 has the immersive feel of KOTOR, just towards the end it all falls away to a feeling of brainless hack and slash. I like both but KOTOR is the better game for me.

[Darth Sun_Tzu]

For me the biggest difference was the robes. The robes in k2 made gave it a better feel.

 

Yes I'm sad! I know.

[Choetan45]

First, let me start by saying I prefer Kotor1 largely for the reasons given by Mothman, 99blackbird, Volourn, Spook, and dufflover.

 

Don't get me wrong, Kotor2 had a number of good things going for it as well, but it just suffers to much from being incomplete and isn't really Star Warish IMO.

 

If you played NWN, KOTOR 1 is pretty much a straight rip-off of NWN. You need to find some artifacts to end an evil, along the way, the heroine goes evil, you have to fight her, big cinematic boss fight at the end.

 

 

K2 was missing all of these. IMO, the last duel in K2 wasn't like K1's duel at all, none of that "we're battling while another battle is being battled above us"

 

Kotor1 is the only Bioware game I have played so far, so I don't know if the comparison to NWN is correct (but I have seen it mentioned elsewhere).

 

However, I will say that Kotor2 is very much a rehash of plot/characters and ideas from PlaneScape: Torment (PS:T). That is both good and bad; good because PS:T was a good game, and bad because PS:T and its setting doesn't have much to do with Star Wars.

 

The similarities aren't entirely surprising since Chris Avellone was lead designer on both games and I suspect a fair number of people from Obsidian may have been members of Black Isle Studios.

 

A quick rundown of the similarities:

 

The protagonist has no name but is known simply as a title:

PS:T - "The Nameless One". (TNO)

Kotor2 - "The Exile"

 

The Protagonist has a special condition which is unknown at the start of the game, but finding out what it is quickly becomes a main focus:

PS:T - TNO has lost his mortality and the game implies the Nighthag Ravel to be responsible.

Kotor2 - The Exile has lost his/her connection to the Force and the game implies the Jedi to be responsible.

 

The special and unnatural condition was caused by the actions of the Protagonist:

PS:T - TNO sought out Ravel to have his mortality removed, but a side effect was amnesia.

Kotor2 - What happened at Malachor made the Exile disconnect from the Force, side effect is that the Exile is now a wound in the Force.

 

The protagonist is hunted by shadows and has to figure out why:

PS:T - TNO is being hunted by shadows and is one step ahead of them most of the time (it is seen mostly in cut-scenes). Eventually we learn that these shadows are a side effect of TNO's special condition.

Kotor2 - The Exile is being hunted by Sith Assassins, and is one step ahead of them most of the time (they attack on Dxun for example). Eventually we learn that they are a product of what happened at Malachor and thus the Exile's condition.

 

The NPC companions seem to be bound to the protagonist:

PS:T - The TNO is tormented and therefore draws other tormented souls to him

Kotor2 - The Exile is a force-leech and draws other Force-sensitives to him/her

 

A NPC connected to the protagonist loves the protagonist for his/her condition and is also insane and wants to destroy existence in the name freedom:

PS:T - Ravel loves her "half-man" and what he has become. She wants to unravel the cage to set The Lady free, even if that would destroy Sigil.

Kotor2 - Kreia loves the Exile because of the Exile's condition. She wants the death of the Force to gain free will, even if that would be the end of the Universe.

 

The protagonist cast echoes across existence:

PS:T - Since TNO is immortal, it is someone else who dies in his stead every time he is killed (these are the shadows that hunt him)

Kotor2 - When the Exile act he/she cast echoes across existence by forcing other to act like him/her.

 

The final showdown takes place at a semi-mysterious location of the protagonist own making:

PS:T - Fortress of Regrets. To get to the final confrontation you have to fight your way through lots of shadows and deal with Ignus, before you can confront The Transcendent One.

Kotor2 - Trayus Academy. You have to fight your way though lots of Sith Assassins and deal with Sion, before you can confront Darth Traya.

 

From what I have seen, the cut ending would have made Kotor2 even more similar to PS:t.

 

There are other things, such as in PS:T you have to deal with the Trias (a Deva - a kind of angel) whom at first appear good, but really is evil. After defeating him, you can redeem him. In Kotor2 you have to deal with Atris, who also appear good, but has fallen to the Dark Side. After defeating her, you can redeem her.

 

There is also the whole thing about the various companions not being truthful about their motivations. The first companions you meet in PS:T are lying to you, which made me mistrust Kreia and Atton in Kotor2 from the start.

 

There is the similarity between Sion and Ignus. One has a shattered body, the other has become a sort of conduit from the planes of fire. Both stay alive though mysterious means and both has to be confronted in the end.

 

Both games are a journey of personal discovery, rather than epic save-the-world/universe.

 

There is the thing about dialog remaining even after you have exhausted the relevant dialog tree, and important dialog just disappearing after being talked about once. That too was carried over straight from PS:T.

 

/list

 

That ended up longer than intended. The short version of all that is that if you have played PS:T, then Kotor2 hold few surprises and vice versa.

[Gabrielle]

For me the biggest difference was the robes. The robes in k2 made gave it a better feel.

 

Yes I'm sad! I know.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The robes in K2 were better than K1s. I wouldn't even call those robes in K1. All we need now is hooded robes.

[Darth Sun_Tzu]

For me the biggest difference was the robes. The robes in k2 made gave it a better feel.

 

Yes I'm sad! I know.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The robes in K2 were better than K1s. I wouldn't even call those robes in K1. All we need now is hooded robes.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The plot/story of k2 may not have been as star warsy as the first and may have been incomplete but the robes made up for all that. Recently i played through both games in order to help me put together the complete story but while i was playing k1 all i wanted to do was get to k2 for the robes.

 

Has any made a mod for k1 so that you can have the k2 robes? And if not, WHY not? <_<

[Daaave]

For me the biggest difference was the robes. The robes in k2 made gave it a better feel.

 

Yes I'm sad! I know.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

KoToR 2 robes owned.

[Grone]

To Choetan45, this post is not meant as a flame, but as a clarification, because I simply don't think that Obsidian deserves to be called thieves.

 

The protagonist has no name but is known simply as a title:

PS:T - "The Nameless One". (TNO)

Kotor2 - "The Exile"

 

This is not true. The Nameless One can

Edited January 8, 2006 by Grunker

[Indev Noor]

Kotor 1's story was complete. The designers also purposely strived for recreating the magic of the original trilogy, and a cinematic feel.. that latter of which was only partly achieved.

 

Too many areas were butt ugly, and things could have been fleshed out more. That said, it really only needs a facelift, the artwork for certain things and certain areas and the interface from Kotor2 will do nicely. Then it will be one kickass game.

 

it is linear and simplistic but that is going along with the movie experience. The player does not have to think or try too hard, just let the story unfold. However, I noticed that many of the worlds, for instance Manaan, could have, with development, been self-contained games in and of themselves. Imagine a game entirely set upon Manaan with the same basic story, or better. Then, imagine such games for each of the planets, then tied all together into one big Kotor. That would rock. That would be truly epic. That would almost certainly be one godly game.

 

That said, the developers did a good job in developing the skeleton of the planets enough so that such fleshing out was not necessary for a passable enjoyable experience. They did a good job seizing upon the bare essentials.. unfortunately imo too bare, especially w/ regards to artwork for certain things.

 

The cinematic effect was pulled of quite nicely though, both in story elements and also in breathtaking vistas.

 

I had hoped not to write pages and pages of review.. I wouldn't even read it. But let's continue :D

 

Kotor 2 showed its Black Isle legacy pretty strongly. It also seems to draw upon System Shock 2. Can say Aliens, Star Control et al., Mission Critical too. It had great promise and there were several points especially relatively early in the game where I thought in ecstasy and with great joy 'I love this game.' Peragus had potential for an Aliens or System Shock 2 experience; was merely ok but that is ok as well since it is only the beginning. I liked the situations I found myself in, the broken ship, the mysterious station, Telos arrest, getting shot down, and there is good humor and excitement. I loved having my own new empty ship even moreso than Kotor 1. Nar Shadda was pretty cool and Onderon is badass, space battle, mysterious moon landing, and Onderon planetfall, although I would have preferred even more gigantic battles.

 

That said, I didn't think much of the characters, despite clever words, and the story is unfinished unfortunately. Dantooine and Korriban are rehashed. This game was well made and detailed, it had fun and awesomely cool parts, but it was not finished. Kotor 1 was not as detailed but it was finished

Edited January 8, 2006 by Indev Noor

[Guest The Architect]

KOTOR was complete, KOTOR II wasn''t. If KOTOR II was complete then I'd say that it's better than KOTOR. Both these RPG's are brilliant, yet they are so different from one another. Both these games stories, characters, etc are outstanding but what I think made KOTOR II potentially better (If it was complete) was that KOTOR felt too 'childish' (But I'm aware that the game's main target audience were little kids). And one problem with KOTOR was that (for me anyway) they made the big plot twist (spoiler) way too obvious which is another reason to suggest that the game was aimed at kids. They should of tried to conceal the spoiler alot more, there were too many clues and I figured out what the spoiler was when you have that vision just after you rescue Bastila from the Black Vulkars.

 

Yet with KOTOR II, it felt more adultish, it was more in depth...deeper, darker (I prefer darker tones, it's more appealing to me) and it was so philisophical which is one of the biggest successful elements of Star Wars, philosophy, debate all those type of 'what if?' things. But IMO KOTOR is definately not as good as KOTOR II. I think the reason why some people say KOTOR's better is because some people like the 'in your face' obvious story and like a complete game and the epic feel but for me personally, the philosophy of KOTOR II is far more interesting than your typical epic. Not that I'm criticizing KOTOR, I love both games, I just prefer KOTOR II, it's more realistic because it's darker.

[Sith_Apprentice]

I really liked both,

 

Kotor 1 was great, I played a light side character all the way until I discovered i was revan and that the Jedi council practically used me for thier own plans.

 

Kotor 2 was great, I found the exil to be a more, screw you attitude put towards him with the whol, impaling the centre block during the "judgment".

 

I found both to be as good as each other, except paragus worst.....level.........ever.

 

Kotor 2's ending i found was a bit of a jip over-all because you went to al lthis trouble to find out your only half-way thier, when I saw the ship flying off I thought I still had a few levels to go, then the credits hwo up and I was like WTF, but cept for that I like both games.

[Vlork]

I'm going to withhold final judgement until the RP is done, but I think I liked K2 better.

 

The characters in the first one were so archetypical. And they're the same archetypes Bioware uses over and over again. At least the character side quests were better than NWN. Rather than having to find some random amulet each of my NPCs lost, I had to meet up with a long-lost friend or relative.

 

I admit I'm not as much of a SW fan as a lot of people who play the games. Maybe that's why I like K2 better. I found the story and characters deeper and more compelling.

 

KOTOR's still a good game. But when K2 is complete, I think it will definitely top the first one.

[Volourn]

"what you say is the case, one could easily suggest that Baldur

[Gorth]

"what you say is the case, one could easily suggest that Baldur

[Grone]

"what you say is the case, one could easily suggest that Baldur

[KoToR3:hopefull]

About equal to be honest, K2 has better graphics (not body sticking robes), but thats just about it really, and anyway the body sticking robes didnt look at all bad if you were on the dark side " .

[Volourn]

"Or do you guys actually agree that KotORII has stolen the plot from PS:T?"

 

Not exactly; but it surely lifted quite a few ideas, and themes. And, some characters have a lot in common with PST characters. And, I don't think it's a coincidence.

 

But, don't worry, Obsidian isn't the first game to rip off PST. A Bioware dev did the same thing with Witch's Wake, a NWN PM.

[Nick_i_am]

Wouldn't have somthing to do with the same writer, or am I just confused?

[Blaise Russel]

[KOTOR2] isn't really Star Warish IMO.

 

I do not understand this at all.

 

If you want something 'Star Warish,' why not watch the Star Wars movies? Hell, play KOTOR again, there's your interactive Star Wars fix for when you need to play some Star Wars.

 

Why does every game have to be the same? Why does every story have to be just like Star Wars? It's been done; let's have some variety, let's have something new. Let's do something exciting and adult and non-Star-Wars with the Star Wars setting because it hasn't been done before.

[BattleCookiee]

Sure, always welcome, but not in a game that has STAR WARS in major letters on the front.

 

If you buy a Star Wars game people expect a Star Wars-type of story. If you wan't a change call it different.

 

How would you think it if Baldur's Gate III was suddenly a Futuristic FPS. Odd, no? You would think "since it has nothing to do with it they would give it a unique name"?

[Plano Skywalker]

on the one hand, I agree that K2 was not very "star warzy" but, then again, I am not really into the EU.

 

The EU lore actually has quite a different feel than the movie era. If Exar Kun can destroy the ghost of Freedon Nadd just by calling out through the Force, kill every Jedi on Coruscant and then get his spirit trapped in pyramids, then K2 can do what it did.

 

K1 had a classic movie feel....K2 had an EU feel.

[Darth Blivion]

[KOTOR2] isn't really Star Warish IMO.

 

I do not understand this at all.

 

If you want something 'Star Warish,' why not watch the Star Wars movies? Hell, play KOTOR again, there's your interactive Star Wars fix for when you need to play some Star Wars.

 

Why does every game have to be the same? Why does every story have to be just like Star Wars? It's been done; let's have some variety, let's have something new. Let's do something exciting and adult and non-Star-Wars with the Star Wars setting because it hasn't been done before.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I agree that; enough has been done with the "starwarsy" feel, that we warrant a change of climate, and Kotor 2 is exactly that change. I prefer Kotor 2 because it doesn't sacrifice story in an effort to be 'star warsy'. K2 is for the non star wars fan.