In What aspect is Kotor I better than II?

[PedanticTwit]

i don't recall the dialog light/dark alignment to be any different in k1, the only difference is in one of Malak's last lines, kinda "you're no jedi nor sith" or something like that, actually i thought k2 was totally grey, even kreia at the end says you're no real jedi/sith, the grey crystal was the most powerful, and when you do something smart yet not exactly ls/ds you actually see a difference (party member reactions).

 

The ... grey ... crystal? Wheee! A whole +5% effectiveness. ... PrC choices anyone? ... Let me put it this way, I felt more straightjacketed into the trichotomy of Naif/Jerk/Wuss by the dialogue options in the sequel than in the first. The next time I play through, maybe I'll figure out why. Furthermore, the third option in that trichotomy was reinforced in what actually happened throughout the game. How many times during that game did I feel as if I were being tied to a railroad car by an inexperienced DM? Oh, three or four off the top of my head. I'm sure there were more, but ... There is no excuse for forcing the main character to get knocked out on three separate occasions despite being immune to whatever trick was being used or just being too much of a bad ass for, say, Kreia to knock out with one shot. It's like the section in KotOR 1 where you first fight Malak. I am pretty sure that everyone who played that felt the same way about absolutely spanking him three times in the space of a minute and then being told to run like a little sissy.

 

And anyway, if they had really been paying anything more than lip service to the notion of grey jedi, then there would have been a grey ending, a selection of grey PrCs, and some powers that actually are easier to use when neutrally aligned. For a game with a mentor who is outwardly grey until the end, they give you remarkably little reward for "playing into" the storyline.

 

I didn't feel cheated by being grey in the first game. When I first got to Malachor without a PrC, I was totally confused. In fact, I was pretty much enraged by the fact that despite the manual's statement to the effect that the option to take on a PrC would be given at a crucial point in the story, it was actually entirely dependent upon alignment. I didn't finish the game for another month because the very thought of playing it made me angry.

[Knights&Darths]

the main theme of k2 is about jedi not being gods, and that real power lies in our own strenghts, not in the Force. imho the Exile was no wuss, it's just that in k1 everyone but the main char was, it wasn't realistic, and at times annoying

(the Genoharadan sounded so powerful yet they came to face you on Tatooine without some nuclear bomb or any sort of traps knowing who you were, just some stupid thugs)

. i mean you're a jedi but you're not invulnerable, if i throw the right amount of electricity at you, you go down like a fried chip, and what's wrong with that?

 

as for prestige classes, i don't know, maybe they thought it was stupid to make Kreia ask the Exile "you jedi or sith? i have to give you the prestige class", it makes sense that's a matter of alignment. still i see it too, there should have been more difference in playing grey in terms of classes and battle.

Edited February 10, 2006 by jinger

[DarthMethos]

And anyway, if they had really been paying anything more than lip service to the notion of grey jedi, then there would have been a grey ending, a selection of grey PrCs, and some powers that actually are easier to use when neutrally aligned.  For a game with a mentor who is outwardly grey until the end, they give you remarkably little reward for "playing into" the storyline.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I can understand your insight. I need more clearification about that last line. I think your statement about they give you remarkably little reward for "playing into" the storyline. has some weight, but I think it goes beyond being a gray character. I wonder if this could be analyzed in further context?

 

I'm not nieve. I think this issue is more complex than what everyone is writting. I could be wrong. Otherwords, I see something, but I don't want to admit it. I need further convincing. <_<

Edited February 10, 2006 by DarthMethos

[DGwar]

I think that they both had similar good and bad things to them. KOTOR 2 played a little easier (combat) than 1 but 1 had a more solid story line and when you finished you actually felt like you where done.

[Tha Cunnysmythe]

Anyone else find KOTOR 2 easy once you got your lightsaber? It just hacks through everyone with ease. I kept thinking that they were giving me a grace period of fodder, but it never ended.

[Lancer]

I think everyone is trying to make this comparision a bit too pendantic and philosophical. I mean, it really is very simple and all comes down to the following:

 

KOTOR1 was a carefully finished product with a finished, good storyline and great plot twist.

 

KOTOR2 was rushed, with a half-a$$ed storyline and undeveloped main villains (again, because it wasn't even a finished product).

 

Therefore,

KOTOR1 was easily better than the second.

Edited February 10, 2006 by Lancer

[Jediphile]

One thing I liked better in K1 were the treasure drops. I *hate* it when I can physically see my enemies wearing certain armors and using specific weapons against me, and yet these are magically gone afterwards - that's bad roleplaying.

 

If the idea is that the equipment was damaged beyond repair, then fine, but not *all* of it *every* time! K1 may have cut down the weapons of a group of attacking Sith, but there was a very high probability of finding at least one of their lightsabers afterwards. Not perfect perhaps, but better than K2, which seemed closer to Diablo 2 where you have swarms of insects dropping heavy plate armors as random loot

Edited February 11, 2006 by Jediphile

[Knights&Darths]

true, i hate to find stims on a droid <_<

[Guest The Architect]

My Reviews...

 

K1

 

Gameplay 9

Graphics 7

Sound 10

Replay Value 9

Appeal 10

 

Overall: 9.0/10

 

K2

 

Gameplay 9

Graphics 6

Sound 10

Replay Value 10

Appeal 10

 

Overall: 9.0/10

 

Looks like my personal ratings tell me there both equal. By the way, you don't have to agree with my scores so don't get worked up and argue with me, everybody's got an opinion.

[Darth Blivion]

the main theme of k2 is about jedi not being gods, and that real power lies in our own strenghts, not in the Force. imho the Exile was no wuss, it's just that in k1 everyone but the main char was, it wasn't realistic, and at times annoying

(the Genoharadan sounded so powerful yet they came to face you on Tatooine without some nuclear bomb or any sort of traps knowing who you were, just some stupid thugs)

. i mean you're a jedi but you're not invulnerable, if i throw the right amount of electricity at you, you go down like a fried chip, and what's wrong with that?

 

as for prestige classes, i don't know, maybe they thought it was stupid to make Kreia ask the Exile "you jedi or sith? i have to give you the prestige class", it makes sense that's a matter of alignment. still i see it too, there should have been more difference in playing grey in terms of classes and battle.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

This is also the reason I think Kotor 2 did a hell of a better job of setting up the boss fights than in kotor 1. I've just played both games this past two weeks, and I stand by my opinion, kotor 2's story line was better than the first's. I'm not denying that the Sion and Nihilus characters could have done with a little more expounding, or that the Malachor seemed a little disjointed (k1 had the awful starforge), but kotor 2's main story had a lot more purpose and creativity.

Edited February 11, 2006 by Darth Blivion

[Choetan45]

If you buy a Star Wars game people expect a Star Wars-type of story. If you wan

[Deadly_Nightshade]

the main theme of k2 is about jedi not being gods, and that real power lies in our own strenghts, not in the Force. imho the Exile was no wuss, it's just that in k1 everyone but the main char was, it wasn't realistic, and at times annoying

(the Genoharadan sounded so powerful yet they came to face you on Tatooine without some nuclear bomb or any sort of traps knowing who you were, just some stupid thugs)

. i mean you're a jedi but you're not invulnerable, if i throw the right amount of electricity at you, you go down like a fried chip, and what's wrong with that?

 

as for prestige classes, i don't know, maybe they thought it was stupid to make Kreia ask the Exile "you jedi or sith? i have to give you the prestige class", it makes sense that's a matter of alignment. still i see it too, there should have been more difference in playing grey in terms of classes and battle.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

This is also the reason I think Kotor 2 did a hell of a better job of setting up the boss fights than in kotor 1. I've just played both games this past two weeks, and I stand by my opinion, kotor 2's story line was better than the first's. I'm not denying that the Sion and Nihilus characters could have done with a little more expounding, or that the Malachor seemed a little disjointed (k1 had the awful starforge), but kotor 2's main story had a lot more purpose and creativity.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

except for the ending...

 

Deadly_Nightshade

[Dark Moth]

I don't know how one can say that K2 had better boss battle setups than in K1. In K1 they did a good job in making you feel like the Sith were a constant threat. In K2, though, you had nihilus who made no appearances after his first scene until the end, Sion who seemed to have no real use and was a complete wuss in the end, and Kreia whose main motivation was to get revenge (OMG!!! That's so creative!!!) and to kill the force (OMG!!! That's so lame!!!).

 

Also, as for NPC's, in K2 the NPC's were even less balanced then they were in K1. The PC became way too powerful, and you had characters like GO-TO, Atton, Mandalore, and HK-47 who really were pretty useless. And in K2, I had a Consular/Jedi Master build and I still breezed right through the game while only dying twice (once as Atton). Even Kreia wasn't really difficult. At least Malak presented some kind of a challenge.

Edited February 11, 2006 by Mothman

[Knights&Darths]

In K1 they did a good job in making you feel like the Sith were a constant threat.

sure, Revan indulged in any kind of leisure activity (including Bastila) while Malak was burning down the galaxy. anyway in k2 it's made clear that these sith are subtle backstabbing assassins, they don't reveal themselves, otherwise the republic and the jedi would have fought'em.

Sion who seemed to have no real use and was a complete wuss in the end, and Kreia whose main motivation was to get revenge (OMG!!!  That's so creative!!!) and to kill the force (OMG!!!  That's so lame!!!)

well, on that front Sion was much better than Malak i must say, Malak's last words drew him as the cheapest excuse for a sith lord, saying things like "you're the bad one who turned me to the dark side, i am nothing, leave me alone", the battle with Sion was great, not for the lightsaber swings, sooner or later he would've won, he was defeated in belief (following HK's advices and eroding his will), which is the coolest thing you must admit. and Sion's last words didn't sound pathetic, he was truely convinced that it wasn't worth it to keep clinging to the Force and accepted defeat, without whining and crying like Malak. as for Kreia, she *never* wanted revenge, until the end she didn't give up hope for the jedi masters to understand, proof is that she waited before revealing herself, then came to defend you. neither she seeked revenge against the sith, they just were to be stopped, there was no other option (other than death), even Sion says she would accept him back coz'she is betrayal, it's the most important aspect of Kreia actually, and she herself particulary insists that vendetta is weakness and after all, she learned true strength when she was compelled to live without the Force. and just personally, i think Kreia's feelings towards the Force were most impressive for a jedi master or a sith lord, i really didn't aspect that much.

Even Kreia wasn't really difficult.  At least Malak presented some kind of a challenge.

Malak was easy, you just need force breach to cancel his force immunity and release the captive jedi, Kreia has the vitality of a thousand rancors, and she's a consular (best will saves), she doesn't even need force immunity.

[moreKOTORplz]

K1 no expectations

 

K2 huge expectations

[Deadly_Nightshade]

K1 no expectations

 

K2 huge expectations

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

AND???

 

Deadly_Nightshade

[moreKOTORplz]

and we all know what hype does to any product.

 

a game of the same quality that is not hype will always rank better then the over hyped game.

 

i'm not saying K2 was better then K1, but K1 was such a suprise it raised the level of the game even higher.

 

K2 was constantly ranked around 8.5 and 9 K1 9-9.5 but most people put K1 far ahead of K2.

[Dark Moth]

sure, Revan indulged in any kind of leisure activity (including Bastila) while Malak was burning down the galaxy. anyway in k2 it's made clear that these sith are subtle backstabbing assassins, they don't reveal themselves, otherwise the republic and the jedi would have fought'em.

For one thing, its a game, okay? So it won't be totally realistic. And you could do the same kinds of leisurely activities in K2. In K2, the Sith never made any appearances until Korriban. In K1, you had the Sith fighting you on every planet, including the cutscenes which let you in on what Malak was doing, you had to go to their own planet, and you even had fighters chasing after you periodically whenever you left a planet. And of course, you ended up being caught by them at one time! Nothing of the sort in K2. You didn't even see them until the end, unless you did Korriban early.

 

The Sith in K1 were free to reveal themselves because Tatooine and Kashyyk were both planets outside of Jedi grasp. Jedi were needed elsewhere and so couldn't fight the Sith there even if they did know. And as for Manaan, it was a neutral world, so Jedi couldn't fight the Sith there either. In K2, the biggest threat to the galaxy seemed to be mercenaries, cause that's mostly what you fought.

 

well, on that front Sion was much better than Malak i must say, Malak's last words drew him as the cheapest excuse for a sith lord, saying things like "you're the bad one who turned me to the dark side, i am nothing, leave me alone", the battle with Sion was great, not for the lightsaber swings, sooner or later he would've won, he was defeated in belief (following HK's advices and eroding his will), which is the coolest thing you must admit. and Sion's last words didn't sound pathetic, he was truely convinced that it wasn't worth it to keep clinging to the Force and accepted defeat, without whining and crying like Malak. as for Kreia, she *never* wanted revenge, until the end she didn't give up hope for the jedi masters to understand, proof is that she waited before revealing herself, then came to defend you. neither she seeked revenge against the sith, they just were to be stopped, there was no other option (other than death), even Sion says she would accept him back coz'she is betrayal, it's the most important aspect of Kreia actually, and she herself particulary insists that vendetta is weakness and after all, she learned true strength when she was compelled to live without the Force. and just personally, i think Kreia's feelings towards the Force were most impressive for a jedi master or a sith lord, i really didn't aspect that much.

 

You're completely misinterpreting Malak's last words. His thoughts weren't of blame or "whining", but of repentance and reflection. He was wondering what would have happened had he not chose that path. And even if it was of blame, he admits himself that he has to take responsibility for his own actions after you speak to him. Sion, for one, does a complete flip-flop by at first priding himself in NOT being Kreia's student and then being worried if she liked him or not. You want to talk about whining, there's some for you. As for Kreia, of course she wanted revenge. She felt betrayed by both the Jedi and the Sith and wanted to get back at them. It was because of this that she developed a hatred of the force and both light and darkside (even though she was evil) and wanted to blame the force for all evil in the universe. She wanted the Sith and Jedi to accept her views, but failed to realize that she was in fact wrong and her own views were self-defeating.

 

Malak was easy, you just need force breach to cancel his force immunity and release the captive jedi, Kreia has the vitality of a thousand rancors, and she's a consular (best will saves), she doesn't even need force immunity.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

If you don't have those powers, then it's a little harder, isn't it? It took me a lot of trys to defeat Malak on my first playthrough. Sure, it got easy afterward, but I'm talking about initial playthough. In K2, I defeated Kreia in one try, and that's with a consular/Jedi Master build! If you have force immunity and an energy shield/energy resistance, then it's that much easier. As a guardian/weapon master, she can go down in a few slices.

Edited February 11, 2006 by Mothman

[moreKOTORplz]

i don't think the degree of difficultly was any different in the two games.

[Dark Moth]

It varies. But as a whole, opinion out there is that K2 was easier than K1.

[Knights&Darths]

For one thing, its a game, okay?  So it won't be totally realistic.  And you could do the same kinds of leisurely activities in K2.  In K2, the Sith never made any appearances until Korriban.  In K1, you had the Sith fighting you on every planet

i hate to be repeatitive but as i said it's different, in k2 it isn't about the republic, the jedi civil war is over and now the sith just silently hunt jedi (coz'they're the only real threat) and jedi are in hiding, i mean they don't know where to search anyway (otherwise the jedi would be already dead) and even if they knew, those are planets were a force user is difficult to detect, for the starmaps it was different. also, don't forget that now any sith presence in republic space has been extinct.

You're completely misinterpreting Malak's last words.  His thoughts weren't of blame or "whining", but of repentance and reflection.  He was wondering what would have happened had he not chose that path.

that was spiritual collapse, a fall, it was pathetic to hear those words from that clown so full of himself and the dark side.

Sion, for one, does a complete flip-flop by at first priding himself in NOT being Kreia's student and then being worried if she liked him or not.

only natural, he hated her because she couldn't see worth in him, he wanted her to die but he knew she was everything he was not and wanted to obtain, that's a rather typical drama behaviour :D

As for Kreia, of course she wanted revenge.  She felt betrayed by both the Jedi and the Sith and wanted to get back at them.

Kreia- Holding vendettas is a weakness. An open mind can unlock many doors.

she didn't "

Exile- So you used me to get revenge on Sion and the others.

Kreia- I used you to keep the Lords of the Sith from condemning the galaxy to death with their power unchecked.

It was because of this that she developed a hatred of the force and both light and darkside

she hates the Force because it has a destiny for us all, and it seeks balance on the blood of the helpless. she holds dear betrayal because it is the only hope for changing, for growth (see lesson of strength).

If you have force immunity and an energy shield/energy resistance, then it's that much easier.

shields and energy res. works fine with Malak as well you know :D also if you don't have force breach, say you're a darksider, a drain on the captive jedi and a plague on Malak always got him down, say you don't have powers at all, shields and good lightsabers bring him down, i butchered him with blasters already! with Traya most of the first times i found myself stunned by her force waves

[Dark Moth]

I think you fail to realize Kreia's view of the force was totally skewed. She was dillusional. Don't believe me? Just look here, and here. Please note the part it says about her being disillusioned with the force. As for her not wanting revenge, of course, Kreia's completely trustworthy and you can believe everything she says. " Yes, she wanted revenge. You'd have to be incredibly thick not to realize that.

Edited February 12, 2006 by Mothman

[Knights&Darths]

I think you fail to realize Kreia's view of the force was totally skewed.

yes i must be dumb, and you the genius, keep thinking like that

[Darth Blivion]

I don't know how one can say that K2 had better boss battle setups than in K1.  In K1 they did a good job in making you feel like the Sith were a constant threat.  In K2, though, you had nihilus who made no appearances after his first scene until the end, Sion who seemed to have no real use and was a complete wuss in the end, and Kreia whose main motivation was to get revenge (OMG!!!  That's so creative!!!) and to kill the force (OMG!!!  That's so lame!!!). 

 

Also, as for NPC's, in K2 the NPC's were even less balanced then they were in K1.  The PC became way too powerful, and you had characters like GO-TO, Atton, Mandalore, and HK-47 who really were pretty useless.  And in K2, I had a Consular/Jedi Master build and I still breezed right through the game while only dying twice (once as Atton).  Even Kreia wasn't really difficult.  At least Malak presented some kind of a challenge.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Malak was pretty easy, force storm the Jedi in their tanks before Malak can draw power from the third Jedi. Very quick, very easy. Kreia's floating lightsabers were more of a nuisance than Malak, the first time through.

[Blaise Russel]

dillusional

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

This does not mean what you think it means.

 

Regardless, they don't seem to have played the same game as I did. Kreia was not a nihilist at all; she simply rejected the Force as a universal arbitrator and definer of roles, preferring instead the individual choice free of co-ercion that is, according to the article, what the player must find to replace her apparently nihilistic philosophy!