Atreides Posted December 22, 2005 Posted December 22, 2005 Curious (bordering on irritating) kids have thousands of questions. One of them's "Why does ice have a greater volume than the water it froze from?" Quite a basic question really. Well we know that in the process of becoming ice, water molecules shed their kinetic energy, huddle closer together, semi-lock into place and stop vibrating as much. Lovely, but why does ice increase in volume - the opposite of what you'd expect? I guess the most natural reaction would be air gets trapped in it and leave it at that. But the kid wants more. "Where's the air come from? If it's from the water, shouldn't the water's volume already take that into account? Would other elements behave the same way? Why or why not?" The annoying kid looks at you with shining (and naive) eyes, while you think of your answer. You briefly consider bribing the kid with a piece of candy to bother someone else, but you try to answer the question... Can you answer the qustion? Btw, there's no wikipedia in the real world, so no researching. Plus the kid's waiting and you discover that you're out of candy. Spreading beauty with my katana.
karka Posted December 22, 2005 Posted December 22, 2005 (edited) Well, since i'm an electrical and electronics engineer i know a lot about electricity, semi-conductor materials, programming, etc. But i do know nothing about biology or chem(well i only know semi-conductor releated subjects). So unfortunately i can't answer your qusetion Edited December 22, 2005 by karka
Gromnir Posted December 22, 2005 Posted December 22, 2005 explanation we got were related to the shape water molecules. when temp hits freezing, water molecules line up in a hexagonal prism pattern... thinks of snowflakes but on a really large scale. instead of flowing together, the molecules is held apart. *shrug* never really spent much time learning 'bout crystallization... that were more of a chemical thing. in any event, gets a nice picture o' a snowflake and show a child just how much empty space the snowflake takes up with it fancy design and ice is sorta a mass of lots of really tiny snowflakes. liquid water molocules flow together and gets less space than snowflakes crystals. is probbly wrong, but that is how it were explained to Gromnir way backs in early chemistry classes. HA! Good Fun! "If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927) "Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019)
kumquatq3 Posted December 22, 2005 Posted December 22, 2005 Because Lord Poseidon, Master of the Deep, wills it as such.
Kaftan Barlast Posted December 22, 2005 Posted December 22, 2005 because when the great graphics programmer made the feature that switches the particle-based water into the ordinary polygon ice, the great producer didnt give him enough time to tweak it so that the relative volume of the particles corresponded with the volume of the ice created. " DISCLAIMER: Do not take what I write seriously unless it is clearly and in no uncertain terms, declared by me to be meant in a serious and non-humoristic manner. If there is no clear indication, asume the post is written in jest. This notification is meant very seriously and its purpouse is to avoid misunderstandings and the consequences thereof. Furthermore; I can not be held accountable for anything I write on these forums since the idea of taking serious responsability for my unserious actions, is an oxymoron in itself. Important: as the following sentence contains many naughty words I warn you not to read it under any circumstances; botty, knickers, wee, erogenous zone, psychiatrist, clitoris, stockings, bosom, poetry reading, dentist, fellatio and the department of agriculture. "I suppose outright stupidity and complete lack of taste could also be considered points of view. "
Cantousent Posted December 22, 2005 Posted December 22, 2005 Ice floats on water. It's not the only thing. Fionavar's Holliday Wishes to all members of our online community: Happy Holidays Join the revelry at the Obsidian Plays channel:Obsidian Plays Remembering tarna, Phosphor, Metadigital, and Visceris. Drink mead heartily in the halls of Valhalla, my friends!
Gromnir Posted December 22, 2005 Posted December 22, 2005 alternative answer: God likes his scotch on the rocks. unfortunately, when he first made ice that was as dense as liquid water his ice cubes would always sink to the bottom of his tumbler, and that just didn't sit well with the Almighty. ice cubes is 'posed to jingle-jangle nicely as one gently jostles their scotch, and cubes is 'posed to cool the scotch at top from whence one is actually drinking. so, late on the sixth day God made ice less dense than liquid water, but as it were getting close to quitting time he had to scrap the unicorn and dragon projects... and he did a half-arsed job on the platypus. HA! Good Fun! "If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927) "Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019)
Judge Hades Posted December 22, 2005 Posted December 22, 2005 He was drunk when he made the platypus. No other explanation for it.
Diamond Posted December 22, 2005 Posted December 22, 2005 I guess the most natural reaction would be air gets trapped in it and leave it at that. That's the right answer due to the nature of ice-cream production process (so it is kinda "foamy"). Otherwise it wouldn't be as soft as it is.
Diamond Posted December 22, 2005 Posted December 22, 2005 How does that qualify one in "knowing science" though?
kirottu Posted December 22, 2005 Posted December 22, 2005 Ice floats on water. It's not the only thing. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> "Dead bodies float also." *menancing look* That should stop those children and their questions. This post is not to be enjoyed, discussed, or referenced on company time.
Cantousent Posted December 22, 2005 Posted December 22, 2005 "I know science." -- Dak'kon Fionavar's Holliday Wishes to all members of our online community: Happy Holidays Join the revelry at the Obsidian Plays channel:Obsidian Plays Remembering tarna, Phosphor, Metadigital, and Visceris. Drink mead heartily in the halls of Valhalla, my friends!
Atreides Posted December 22, 2005 Author Posted December 22, 2005 I think they keep stirring the mixture in an ice cream machine. Or a sorbet machine. Spreading beauty with my katana.
Cantousent Posted December 22, 2005 Posted December 22, 2005 Good Lord, have none of you made Ice Cream at home? At home, at least, you put the cream and sugar and other stuff in a small bucket with a device inside of it for churning the mix, put that bucket in a larger bucket, put ice and rock salt in the large bucket so it's all around the small bucket, then you churn the cream until it's Ice Cream. Tasty. Fionavar's Holliday Wishes to all members of our online community: Happy Holidays Join the revelry at the Obsidian Plays channel:Obsidian Plays Remembering tarna, Phosphor, Metadigital, and Visceris. Drink mead heartily in the halls of Valhalla, my friends!
LoneWolf16 Posted December 22, 2005 Posted December 22, 2005 Oddly arousing... Ahem, anyway. I know nothing of science, save for the most basic elements, and even those I don't know too well. My vote is for candy. It's something tangible that's right in front of me, not a concept, and plus, it's all tasty-like. Yay immediate satisfaction! I had thought that some of nature's journeymen had made men and not made them well, for they imitated humanity so abominably. - Book of Counted Sorrows 'Cause I won't know the man that kills me and I don't know these men I kill but we all wind up on the same side 'cause ain't none of us doin' god's will. - Everlast
213374U Posted December 22, 2005 Posted December 22, 2005 explanation we got were related to the shape water molecules. when temp hits freezing, water molecules line up in a hexagonal prism pattern... thinks of snowflakes but on a really large scale. instead of flowing together, the molecules is held apart. I think that's about it. If I'm not mistaken, It's because of the uneven electrical charge distribution in the molecule, given the difference in electronegativity between Oxygen (with only Fluorine being more electronegative) and Hydrogen. When molecules fall into place due to the loss of kinetic energy, the strong dipoles force a structure similar to that of ionic compounds. That is, a very organized, very strong net structure. - When he is best, he is a little worse than a man, and when he is worst, he is little better than a beast.
Dark Moth Posted December 22, 2005 Posted December 22, 2005 Pretty much. The way the molecules are shaped and charged drives the molecules to arrange themselves in a particular pattern when they freeze and lock together. When joining together, the oxygens usually line up to join with the hydrogen atoms of opposite charge in another molecule, and vice versa. The way they arrange themselves expands the solid instead of condensing it. When in a liquid state, the molecules bunch themselves together so the liquid is denser than the solid, which is why ice floats on water. Candy!!!
LadyCrimson Posted December 23, 2005 Posted December 23, 2005 Somehow, I don't think those explanations will help a young child understand, very well. Maybe something more like "The space between water molecules gets bigger when water freezes." Perhaps not technically accurate but a little easier to comprehend the basic idea for children? Then you can tell them to go Google if they want more exactness. " “Things are as they are. Looking out into the universe at night, we make no comparisons between right and wrong stars, nor between well and badly arranged constellations.” – Alan Watts
213374U Posted December 23, 2005 Posted December 23, 2005 Somehow, I don't think those explanations will help a young child understand, very well. Maybe something more like "The space between water molecules gets bigger when water freezes." Perhaps not technically accurate but a little easier to comprehend the basic idea for children? Then you can tell them to go Google if they want more exactness. " Understand? Who said anything about that? My explanation was aimed at making the damn kid shut up, and if possible, make sure he doesn't ever ask me again. What, you think I actually typed "electronegativity" just for kicks? - When he is best, he is a little worse than a man, and when he is worst, he is little better than a beast.
LadyCrimson Posted December 23, 2005 Posted December 23, 2005 (edited) Understand? Who said anything about that? Not you...didn't say you specifically did, either. But.... The annoying kid looks at you with shining (and naive) eyes, while you think of your answer. You briefly consider bribing the kid with a piece of candy to bother someone else, but you try to answer the question... Trying to answer the question usually implies helping someone understand. My explanation was aimed at making the damn kid shut up, and if possible, make sure he doesn't ever ask me again. Telling them to Google and then closing the proverbial door might achieve that too. Edited December 23, 2005 by LadyCrimson “Things are as they are. Looking out into the universe at night, we make no comparisons between right and wrong stars, nor between well and badly arranged constellations.” – Alan Watts
Cantousent Posted December 23, 2005 Posted December 23, 2005 I just think my numbered friend meant to say that he's a blue meanie. Fionavar's Holliday Wishes to all members of our online community: Happy Holidays Join the revelry at the Obsidian Plays channel:Obsidian Plays Remembering tarna, Phosphor, Metadigital, and Visceris. Drink mead heartily in the halls of Valhalla, my friends!
LadyCrimson Posted December 23, 2005 Posted December 23, 2005 Hehe...a dancing blue meanie with a heart of platinum. :D “Things are as they are. Looking out into the universe at night, we make no comparisons between right and wrong stars, nor between well and badly arranged constellations.” – Alan Watts
Gromnir Posted December 23, 2005 Posted December 23, 2005 we thought our snowflake answer were pretty kid friendly. shucks. HA! Good Fun! "If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927) "Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019)
11XHooah Posted December 23, 2005 Posted December 23, 2005 (edited) Well, I know the "make your own ice cream" trick. Does that make me a scientist? :D I think that chemistry is my favorite branch of science. Nothing like playing with chemicals and bunsen burners Edited December 23, 2005 by 11XHooah War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself. --John Stewart Mill-- "Victory was for those willing to fight and die. Intellectuals could theorize until they sucked their thumbs right off their hands, but in the real world, power still flowed from the barrel of a gun.....you could send in your bleeding-heart do-gooders, you could hold hands and pray and sing hootenanny songs and invoke the great gods CNN and BBC, but the only way to finally open the roads to the big-eyed babies was to show up with more guns." --Black Hawk Down-- MySpace: http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fusea...iendid=44500195
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