360 games even more expensive than Xbox ones

[Surreptishus]

Yes, but think on this.

 

Back when I was a kid, in the 1980's, going to a new release major movie costed $1.50 where I lived.  Now it costs $7.50.  That is 5 times as much.  A triple A title costs $40 back in the 1980's.  Now it costs $50.  That is only a 20% increase.  $1 back in the 80's was actually worth something.  Now, not so much.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Are you implying an arbitrary price increase should take place to make up for the fact that in real terms game prices have fallen?

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

Yes, but think on this.

 

Back when I was a kid, in the 1980's, going to a new release major movie costed $1.50 where I lived.  Now it costs $7.50.  That is 5 times as much.  A triple A title costs $40 back in the 1980's.  Now it costs $50.  That is only a 20% increase.  $1 back in the 80's was actually worth something.  Now, not so much.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Cinema attendance has decreased. Game sales have increased which means more competition and lower retail prices.

 

Volume is the key since the market price wont stand for large increases.

 

The whole budget games market is based around offering things at a lower price in order to attract those buyers who wouldnt , or couldnt pay full price.

Edited November 7, 2005 by ShadowPaladin V1.0

[Judge Hades]

Thing is Shadowpaladin, you aren't paying the same amount of money for the same media. Way back when $40 to $50 games came on chip based cartridges and 5 and a quarter inch discs. Now they come on DVD at no increase in price. Something is just wrong with that. The point of a business is to make money and with stagnation of prices only thing that is changing is the overall quality and length of the games being developed. If you haven't noticed, but overall game quality has become crappier and crappier since the late 1990's.

[Volourn]

"The piracy thing was a couple of pages ago so it just seemed like non sequitur rant."

 

Yes; but I hadn't yet called anyone a supporter of thieves so I had to get in it. P.S. Piracy = Theft.

 

 

"If people dont buy in the same volume at the higher prices then you just screwed yourself over."

 

Huh? How do you figure this?

 

Simple math that even a pleeblo like me cna figur eit out.

 

Sell 10 copies at $10 = $100

 

Sell 5 copies at $20 = $100

 

 

Sold 50% less copies yet made the same amount of costs.

 

Add that to less production costs, and you are gaining money.

 

So, your idea that if you sell less copies you somehow automaticlaly make less money is absolute nonsense.

 

Go buy your fictional $1 game, and your $50 corvette.

 

 

"If you haven't noticed, but overall game quality has become crappier and crappier since the late 1990's."

 

False.

Edited November 7, 2005 by Volourn

[Judge Hades]

Are you implying an arbitrary price increase should take place to make up for the fact that in real terms game prices have fallen?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

No more arbitrary than the increase of the cost of bread over the last 20 years.

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

Thing is Shadowpaladin, you aren't paying the same amount of money for the same media.  Way back when $40 to $50 games came on chip based cartridges and 5 and a quarter inch discs.  Now they come on DVD at no increase in price.  Something is just wrong with that.  The point of a business is to make money and with stagnation of prices  only thing that is changing is the overall quality and length of the games being developed.  If you haven't noticed, but overall game quality has become crappier and crappier since the late 1990's.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Not so , games are coming on DvD right now which will cost

[Judge Hades]

Well, if you don't want to pay for it then don't. I am willing to pay an increased price if there is an increase in quality.

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

Well, if you don't want to pay for it then don't.  I am willing to pay an increased price if there is an increase in quality.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Thats fine but I'd place you in a minority that would be too small to support a business model anyway.

 

If you recall what I said was that I would not pay extra for the same thing with pretier graphics. I've yet to see anything that I would call an increase in quality (beyond the visuals).

 

You can see many instances where a game will struggle at full price, but will sell like crazy once the price is lowered. Vampire sold out overnight when it went on sale for

Edited November 7, 2005 by ShadowPaladin V1.0

[Judge Hades]

The medium is irrelevant to me. Blu-Ray, DVD, HD DVD, 3.5 inch disc is irrelevant. Its the game itself that matters.

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

The medium is irrelevant to me.  Blu-Ray, DVD, HD DVD, 3.5 inch disc is irrelevant.  Its the game itself that matters.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Dumb though, why would you pay all that extra money only to have to swap disks.

 

I bet when you got to your 99th 3.5 swap in a couple of hours you would start to care

[Judge Hades]

You don't remember the days of the Vic 20 or the C 64, do you? Kids today are so very spoiled.

Edited November 7, 2005 by Hades_One

[Darque]

Well, if you don't want to pay for it then don't.  I am willing to pay an increased price if there is an increase in quality.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Translation: Well, if you don't want to pay for it, then don't... piracy is always an option. "

 

Maybe this is why the prices of games haven't increased, fear that piracy will increase.

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

Translation: Well, if you don't want to pay for it, then don't... piracy is always an option.  "

 

Maybe this is why the prices of games haven't increased, fear that piracy will increase.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

There will be people who will use the higher prices to justfy it.

 

Personally I just rent stuff.

 

I think it has more to do with the retail side of things keeping the prices down rather than the development side.

[Darque]

Justify?

 

I think it's pretty telling that most of your highlevel piracy areas (like the country Roshan is in) tend to have higher priced games compared to how much the gamers make.

 

There will always be piracy, but maybe this is one of the factors leading to the static game prices?

[metadigital]

...

Anyway, as I have stated a long time ago (with an avatar far, far away) these games prices are nominally similar to that of Genesis and Snes around 15 years ago. What's the big deal?

 

Although it is odd that the next gen games are at a premium - this probably reflects the dev costs (console and game) I'm guessing MS wants to make some money this time around since the Xbox was a loss leader.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

True. There was a retrospective in the latest Custom PC issue, where the journalist compared todays technology with a decade ago: swapping Office 2003 on Windows XP for Office 95 on Windows 95 and installing it from FORTY 95mm (un)floppy disks; one big difference was the cost of computers: a 486DX2 66MHz CPU, 16MB RAM and Matrox 2MB graphics card cost (in todays money)

[mkreku]

I will say this about games and prices.  Back in the days of the Commodore 64 games were $30 to $50.  Inthe days of the 486 games were $30 to $50.  Now, games are $30 to $50. 

Hmm. Either you have a faulty memory or the prices in the US have had a very different evolution than the swedish ones.

 

When I started playing games on my Commodore 128 (same as Commodore 64 but crappier) the games cost between 49 SEK and 149 SEK. Today they range from 299 SEK to 599 SEK. Console games are even worse with prices up and above 649 SEK. On average a normal game is THREE TIMES more expensive today than it was back in the eighties. I wouldn't blame that difference on inflation.

 

I remember the post where Feargus said the prices have remained constant but the development costs have gone through the roof. I still don't understand what he meant, because the prices have also gone through the roof in Sweden at least, just as development costs have.

[metadigital]

Um, Shadowpaladin, lets stay in the realm of reality here.  There is no gaurantee that a game is going to sell.  None whatsoever.  What is considered good to one may be trash to another and you can't base a business on such uncertainty.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

However making short and or poor games is a sure fire way not to sell them.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Stolen, anyone ...

Give something enough hype and it will sell.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Revenge of the Sith, anyone ...

[metadigital]

I will say this about games and prices.  Back in the days of the Commodore 64 games were $30 to $50.  Inthe days of the 486 games were $30 to $50.  Now, games are $30 to $50. 

Hmm. Either you have a faulty memory or the prices in the US have had a very different evolution than the swedish ones.

 

When I started playing games on my Commodore 128 (same as Commodore 64 but crappier) the games cost between 49 SEK and 149 SEK. Today they range from 299 SEK to 599 SEK. Console games are even worse with prices up and above 649 SEK. On average a normal game is THREE TIMES more expensive today than it was back in the eighties. I wouldn't blame that difference on inflation.

 

I remember the post where Feargus said the prices have remained constant but the development costs have gone through the roof. I still don't understand what he meant, because the prices have also gone through the roof in Sweden at least, just as development costs have.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Escapist, "Death to the Gaming Industry, Part I", issue 8

[Darque]

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

uhg.... I'd love to know what factors keep increasing the creation cost.

[Diamond]

uhg.... I'd love to know what factors keep increasing the creation cost.

Competition?

[metadigital]

uhg.... I'd love to know what factors keep increasing the creation cost.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Check out the article when you have a spare ten minutes (it's only a couple of pages); Greg Costikyan posits a clear and cogent series of allegations against BIG BUSINESS and their attempts to "Hollywoodize" (my analogy) the games industry; also Part 2 gives a battle plan for us (all) to fix it. :D

[Darque]

uhg.... I'd love to know what factors keep increasing the creation cost.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Check out the article when you have a spare ten minutes (it's only a couple of pages); Greg Costikyan posits a clear and cogent series of allegations against BIG BUSINESS and their attempts to "Hollywoodize" (my analogy) the games industry; also Part 2 gives a battle plan for us (all) to fix it. :D

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Wow That was a pretty good read

 

I'm not sure I like the idea of removing the retailer and going download only though.

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

uhg.... I'd love to know what factors keep increasing the creation cost.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Higher production values. Profesional movies, movie voice actors (rather than unknown ones) higher wages etc.

[alanschu]

Give something enough hype and it will sell.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Hype takes marketting dollars. This increases the costs even more.

 

 

The main reason why I've never really complained about the cost of software in recent years is because I too have noticed that, adjusted for inflation, they are much cheaper than they were a decade ago.

 

 

 

The problem with the games industry now is that games need big time sales to recoup their costs. The development of the vast majority of games is supported by the sales of one or two big sellers. It's a gamblers market, where money is invested in a product with the hopes of it being a bigtime seller.

 

It's part of the reason why many (including game developers) have begun to fear a regression in innovation, and more rehashings of the more established genres. It also means the death of the smaller developer, as the only way to truly compete is to have tons of money to make a game that appeals to the masses. Unfortunately the masses has a fixation on art content, which is where the bulk of the cost is. A game could be flawless in every sense of the word, but whether you like to admit it or not, if it has subpar graphics it will struggle sales wise. This is because at the current cost of games compared to the development of the games, the game must appeal to the masses in order to make money.

 

 

Higher production values. Profesional movies, movie voice actors (rather than unknown ones) higher wages etc.

 

Knowing people that do work in the games industry, higher wages is likely not a big part of the equation. The games industry is not an industry to be in if you're looking to make money.

 

To answer Darque's question, the biggest increase in production costs is the excessive amount of art content. Art teams have become huge and expensive, and the only way to truly compete in a market of the masses is to have nice graphics. It's the easiest selling point of a game, and something the general public is interested in.

 

In odd cases you'll get games like The Sims that are truly unique and appeal to traditional non-gamers (more women than men play The Sims), but those are odd. And even then The Sims was virtually cancelled on numerous occassions because it was preceived as being too risky.

 

 

I'm looking forward to Spore, which utilizes algorithms for its art content and its physics model determines appropriate animations based on the physical structure of the animal. This alone will reduce the number of artists required on the game, and hopefully find a way to severe costs. Add this in to the fact that they hope to use user-created content to populate the various worlds, costs also begin to shrink.

Edited November 8, 2005 by alanschu

[Diamond]

To answer Darque's question, the biggest increase in production costs is the excessive amount of art content.  Art teams have become huge and expensive, and the only way to truly compete in a market of the masses is to have nice graphics.  It's the easiest selling point of a game, and something the general public is interested in.

 

With that said...

If a game has poor graphics, I don't play it. It's boring to look at, and completely takes away from any immersive aspect I might have while gaming.

 

"