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Story path/direction in relation to K1


What do you think of K2's story in relation to K1?  

55 members have voted

  1. 1. What do you think of K2's story in relation to K1?

    • I like the new depth it has to Revan, the Force, etc.
      20
    • Overall I like it but there are a couple of weird story elements
      9
    • Good effort but twists the original story too much
      6
    • Null - never cared about the story.
      0
    • They should've left Revan/Bastila (or Revan/Carth) live happily ever after
      3
    • Making Revan some sort of greater good Sith was stupid
      9
    • They've ruined K1 for me now...just doesn't feel the same
      0
    • I'll just ignore what happens in K2, or, they should've based it on something independent of K1 (cameo's allowed)
      5
    • (Extreme) I wish I never played K2
      3
    • Other
      0


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So why then did Obsidian transform the "remade" Revan into some Sith hunter on a wild goose chase.

 

They didn't. There was no transformation. Bioware created this character from the outset as someone on a quest (ie wild goose chase) to stop the Sith.

No they didn't - Obsidian said this.

BioWare just had this Sith Lord who went to fight the Mandalorian's, and then either while fighting them or using them as an excuse to go out and look, discovered the Star Forge and seduced by power and domination - the familar fate of fallen Jedis.

Edited by dufflover

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BioWare just had this Sith Lord who went to fight the Mandalorian's, and then either while fighting them or using them as an excuse to go out and look, discovered the Star Forge and seduced by power and domination - the familar fate of fallen Jedis.

 

It's strange to explain that part of the story, because revan was on dantooine getting maps to the star forge, but it seems like somebody would notice... of course, there is always that "invisible jedi" argument, so whatever.

 

But when he gets to the star forge map on dantooine, he is already wearing the sith lord mask... um... why? Didn't he get corrupted by the star forge or what? the ambition to gain power from the star forge?

 

revan:i want power from star forge. this mask looks like it wants to be on my face.

 

yeah, so i basically went off topic.. sorry.... ;)

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I think Revan already wore the mask as a Jedi. At least he... no, it was she... does so in my fanfic. Remember, Carth and Canderous served in the Mandalorian Wars, so they would surely recognize the KOTOR PC as Revan. (Well, maybe Canderous does, but I doubt it.)

Kreia was placed by OE as a Consular on Peragus without her own weapon. Yet, she is shown to be someone who is potentially lethal. (There is a scene of her walking in the Trayus Academy and Sith Assassins stalking her, yet they collapse fatally and her manner of draining their lives is almost superficial)

 

And OE gave Kreia a non-Jedi weapon when dueling with Sion on the Harbinger. Anyone could actually wield a vibrosword, even Atton.

Is it that hard to assume that her lightsaber was taken away by the Peragus miners who put her in the morgue?
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The whole fully clothed Revan thing on Dantooine is why it is not possible to fully say whether Revan was seduced by the Star Forge before or during the Mandalorian war. What's wrong with being a Jedi by day but secretly a Sith (with accompanying costume...) at Night?

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They didn't. There was no transformation. Bioware created this character from the outset as someone on a quest (ie wild goose chase) to stop the Sith.

 

Untrue. Bioware made Revan a true Sith wanting to conquer the galaxy. When Revan recovered his memories (Assuming light side is canonical), he chose to be a true Jedi and defeat Darth Malak. Simple: LIGHT VS DARK. This is how it should've been left. It makes the most sense. No neutral characters. That doesn't exist when you wield the force. Even Jolee was light sided and there is a difference between 'Neutral' and 'Being outside the order' and Gray Jedi are not neutral. They are mostly light sided with the simple difference that they are chaotic.

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The whole fully clothed Revan thing on Dantooine is why it is not possible to fully say whether Revan was seduced by the Star Forge before or during the Mandalorian war. What's wrong with being a Jedi by day but secretly a Sith (with accompanying costume...) at Night?
The Mandalorian Wars ended in 3,960 BBY, while Revan and Malak found the Star Forge and claimed themselves Sith Lords a year later, in 3,959 BBY. However, Revan knew about the Trayus Academy on Malachor during the Mandalorian Wars and, studying the Sith lore, was already on the path to the dark side.
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The whole fully clothed Revan thing on Dantooine is why it is not possible to fully say whether Revan was seduced by the Star Forge before or during the Mandalorian war. What's wrong with being a Jedi by day but secretly a Sith (with accompanying costume...) at Night?
The Mandalorian Wars ended in 3,960 BBY, while Revan and Malak found the Star Forge and claimed themselves Sith Lords a year later, in 3,959 BBY. However, Revan knew about the Trayus Academy on Malachor during the Mandalorian Wars and, studying the Sith lore, was already on the path to the dark side.

I'm not big on the EU thing so what exactly does this all mean? I take it by that Trayus Academy reference you are saying it doesn't matter when they learnt about the Star Forge because they were already on the DS path? or that they learnt about it before going off, which started their DS path?

 

btw, one key factor here is that Revan knowing about the Trayus Academy and stuff is that this is stuff from K2.

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Well, if you take only the first game as canon, then Revan and Malak were still Jedi when fighting in the Mandalorian Wars and fell to the dark side later. However, even with both games taken into account, I'm not certain about the "Revan knew about the Trayus Academy" thing, since it comes from LucasArts' KOTOR Chronicles, which seem to contradict the second game.

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K2 sat on my preorder list for a long time, put there in a manic moment of glee when the game was in production. I was busy with other things and didn't find out that K2 didn't directly continue the first game until I had the game box in hand. But $50 is $50. When I played it I liked it a lot, because Kreia was done so well, and because the Revan backstory thread drew me in. I think it was a smart move on Obsidian's part--they didn't actually USE the character Bioware created, and so avoided changing him overmuch. Different authors can put their own spin on a character, without even trying or realizing it.

 

As far as Revan goes--and I still maintain that K2 is his story, from a different angle--I don't mind that Kreia made him into some glorious hero. How else would she appeal to Exile's strong sense of right and wrong? Revan had an agenda, to be sure, but no one really knows what it was. I dislike being forced into the idea that he was some Malak-evil dude just as much as halo-polishing.

 

Real people are a mass of conflicting emotions and motivations, and a hero is just an ordinary person forced into action by extraordinary circumstances. That's what I want to see; and I don't think K2 did any harm. But K3 needs to go back to grass roots. I'd rather it not be made at all than go overboard in either direction.

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I hope K3 gives us more of Kreia's backstory (the true backstory).

I hope they make an Indiana Jones type Jedi who just mentions that Kreia was an old hag full of crap and leave it at that.

 

You are my hero. :D

Likewise :D :)

Second that :)

HERMOCRATES:

Nur Ab Sal was one such king. He it was, say the wise men of Egypt, who first put men in the colossus, making many freaks

of nature at times when the celestial spheres were well aligned.

 

SOCRATES:

This I doubt. We are hearing a child's tale.

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I hope K3 gives us more of Kreia's backstory (the true backstory).

I hope they make an Indiana Jones type Jedi who just mentions that Kreia was an old hag full of crap and leave it at that.

That would be so cool. :rolleyes:

they need to make a random indiana jones npc for the sith lords restoration project and have him say that. it would make up for the rest of the game.

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Oh, and making Revan a greater-good-Sith was immensely alien to Star Wars, but might as well just have been more Kreia bollocks. She wasn't very Star Warsy herself, after all.

 

Hm, actually the seeds of Revan as "greater good Sith" or at least "road to hell is paved with good intentions" Sith are there in KOTOR1, planted by Bioware. I mean, it is right-out said that the Mandalorians were manipulated into their war by somebody outside of the known space, so to speak, that there was some great threat that used them as their catspaws. It is also never made clear how the Mandalorian situation could have been resolved if Revan didn't take matters into his/hers hands. Also, Revan was different from Malak, no brutish thug with simple thirst for power, but somebody whom people followed, selflessly, and whom even enemies admired. It has been mentioned that Revan never needed or wanted to commit wanton acts of destruction, unlike Malak. And he used the Star Forge sparingly, despite being more clever and tech-savvy than Malak. The Kashyyk Rakata hologramm strongly hints that Revan even foresaw the events of KOTOR1, too!

I don't see how all of this can be explained by a "simple" power-hungry Sith. In fact, one of my main criticisms of part 1 was that Revan's motivations and the story of his/hers fall were never adressed.

Conversely it wouldn't mean that if Revan's initial motivation was counter-acting some huge threat, s/he didn't become an evil "goal sanctifies the means" dictator by the time of their capture and s/he certainly would have intended to rule the former Republic space absolutely after the threat was dealt with.

 

My other main criticism was that Revan was never made to confront results of the actions of their previous incarnation, that everything was instantly forgiven, that all those lost lives were erased as if they have never been and somebody else was picking up the shambles. KOTOR2 adressed that to a rather satisfying degree, IMHO, though I agree that it would have been better if Revan had been the main character.

 

Finally, it was nice to have many choices that mattered within the game _and_ have the character be defined by those choices, rather than a single ad-hoc decision near the end.

 

Re: companions from part 1, I dont see how they could return as party members, apart from Canderous and the droids. And it is not Obsidian's fault, as it was Bioware who set the rest of them to be killable. While I do agree that K3 should be about Revan again, IMHO the companions should be all new, apart from those 3. Or maybe just the droids. Revan is by definition a solitary figure, without equals and without peace, who touches many lives, but can't retain anybody for long.

 

And another thing - that "simplicity" people here extoll, was it ever in the movies, even? Didn't the Emperor give his Empire peace and prosperity for 20 years? Wasn't Vader, while certainly much more thuggish, deeply conflicted about Luke? I agree that much of the nuance that Lucas tried to introduce in the prequels fell on its face, but it is due to external reasons. But "road to Sithdom is paved with good intentions" is certainly well and truly part of the canon now :o.

 

Speaking for myself, the "simplicity" made re-playing KOTOR1 as a dark character a dull affair and I greatly enjoyed the role-playing and nuance KOTOR2 offered. I also really liked to have an intelligent and sneaky antagonist for a change, even if in the end her story was a bit incomprehensible due to cuts. But I#d take her over a maniacally laughing thug any time, thank you!

Edited by maia
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Makes me wanna think why is it called Knights of The Old Republic then when it should be called Sith of the Past Ages. :ermm:

 

great point....the KOTOR era is not exactly the right era to be having "last of the Jedi" kind of stories. It needs to show the Jedi as strong, vibrant keepers of the peace. I think having a number of splinter groups (factions) would work wonders....the focus would be largely on the internal problems of the Jedi Order and/or the central government on Coruscant.

 

actually, the Onderon story in K2 would have been excellent material for an entire game in this era.

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Didn't the Emperor give his Empire peace and prosperity for 20 years?
No, he didn't. Just seeing the degradation of remote worlds under Imperial reign (and not only remote worlds, but even as non-remote ones as, say,

Coruscant... no, wait, "Imperial Center"

, I dare not say he granted the Empire prosperity. Neither did he grant it peace; instead, he granted it both the Clone Wars and the Galactic Civil War. Not to mention endless conflicts between the New Republic and the Imperial Remnant after Endor. Although this was certainly not how Lucas wanted it, perhaps he just wanted the heroes to live happily ever after...

Palpatine is an epitome of pure evil. There's nothing good that can be said about him. Period. Even Malak is not as evil, he deserves some compassion and is, to some extent, a tragic figure.

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I like the idea of a possible "True Sith" invasion that is hinted at greatly in K2 and it looks like the kotor series began with revan and will end with revan and everyone else is just along for the ride.

 

If you think about it, the exile in K2 almost kills off all of the most important force user's in the galaxy: Jedi council (Kriea in LS), the Sith Lords, and atris's academy. So what can be left I feel that the True Sith is a perfect path for the trilogy and will tie both K1 & K2 nicely. Now the question would be how would you integrate the PC in K3. As either a new character entirely, as the exile, or as revan. I lean towards the new character but that would need some real good story-telling and researching of the past 2 game plots. But it is doable :) . Maybe this is the ranting of a hopeless kotor freak.

 

One thing i really hope well actually a couple is that the antagonist of K3 (if there is one :- ) the Great Sith Lord if you will be well developed and seen alot ala Vader and Malak. Probably just as important to me is the romance plot. In K1 the romance played an integral part of the plot (male/female) but in K2 its almost like a pointless side quest for hopeless romantics like me :"> played no major role in the plot or maybe it was just cut-out

 

How about this just one of my ideas: Revan turns into a Sith lord once again no matter if you LS/DS in K1. He was a Sith Lord to begin with and seduced to the darkside again. Seeing that the exile was so greatly influenced by Revan maybe Reven Can take the exile as his/her apprentice. Now How bout that for a Final Kotor Duel... Face to Face with ur heroes of the past ;)

 

lol anyways that my 2 cents give me feed back or just tell me to keep dreaming

 

Oh can't forget Bastilla, bastilla, and more bastilla... at least a Cameo PlZZZ :devil:

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Edited by foxdez
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I lean towards the new character but that would need some real good story-telling and researching of the past 2 game plots.
I'm certain Obsidian will make the new character as interesting as the first two. And I want the appearances of the Unknown Regions reduced to a bare minimum. Maybe somewhere in the very final, like Malachor, when most of the plot lines already come to a logical end. The majority of action should be seen in a familiar place, namely the Republic.

And please, no romance at this time. The PCs are Jedi or what?

lol anyways that my 2 cents give me feed back or just tell me to keep dreaming
Keep lucid dreaming :(. And please spell Bastila properly... Edited by Sikon
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And please spell Bastila properly...

Just some friendly advice: Give up. If I had a dollar for every time 'Bastila' has been misspelt on this board I'd be a rich man. What puzzles me is that even the good spellers often totally misspell names from the game. :thumbsup:

^Asinus asinorum in saecula saeculorum

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