SAVE STAR WARS RPG!!!

[Judge Hades]

People who say "WotC sucks" or they "f**ked up TSR" obviously have no clue what was going on in the background. As was said TSR was dead and broke when WotC moved in. If they didn't put their money on the line TSR would have gone bankrupt and Dungeons and Dragons, as well with all their product lines, would be dead and gone.

 

No more Gamma World, no more Dungeons and Dragons, no more Alternity, no more Forgotten Realms, no more Ravenloft, no more Planescape, no more Dark Sun, and so forth. There would be nothing.

 

WotC took over and made 3e then 3.5e, but you people seem to forget that WotC is a business and as a business they are there to make money. If a setting isn't worth the money to support then why the hell should they support it?

 

The d20 System revitalized a dying market and kept Dungeons and Dragons alive. If that makes WotC a bunch of **** then they are my type of ****.

 

EDIT: Also here is something of note, one of the reasons why WotC is dropping certain settings and such for d20 is because they are prepping to sell the d20 System. They did their work and now its time for the next stage. It would be cool if Malhavoc could buy the system from WotC.

Edited October 22, 2005 by Hades_One

[Gabrielle]

So sorry but WotC still sucks.

[Kaftan Barlast]

Also here is something of note, one of the reasons why WotC is dropping certain settings and such for d20 is because they are prepping to sell the d20 System.  They did their work and now its time for the next stage.

 

 

I heard about that, what are they up to?

[Walsingham]

I was under the impression that WotC were partly responsible for us losing BG3. Because they havered over the license they were going to grant to Black Isle. If that is true then by God they suck. Even if it is not true they gave us MtG, and can pod off.

[Spider]

I was under the impression that WotC were partly responsible for us losing BG3. Because they havered over the license they were going to grant to Black Isle. If that is true then by God they suck. Even if it is not true they gave us MtG, and can pod off.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

The reason BIS lost the BG liscence was because they couldn't pay for it. The had to chose to keep BG for consoles or BG for PC. At least that's my understanding of it.

[Judge Hades]

So sorry but WotC still sucks.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

And that is why you are ignorant.

[Judge Hades]

I heard about that, what are they up to?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

What they are doing is consolidating all of TSR's old material, franchises, Intellectual Property, licenses, as well as all the new material that belongs to them since the d20 System was released in order to sale it off. Hasbro no longer wants to deal with the PnP side of d20 for it isn't profitable enough for them. At least that was the last rumor I heard on the subject.

 

Hasbro wanted to push the 4e to boost sales but WotC told them that it would be stupid because a 4e is really unnecessary and would sell like crap. So they want to ditch it instead, White Wolf would probably be the most likely buyer but there are a lot of companies that would like the chance to own Dungeons and Dragons.

[Kaftan Barlast]

Theyve got the #1 selling RPG of all time and it still isnt profitable enough? Haha, these corporate types should be taken out and shot for the good of humanity

[Judge Hades]

Well, think about how big Hasbro is and compare the sales of DnD to the sales of its other products. In comparison DnD is pretty darn low on the totem pole.

[Gabrielle]

So sorry but WotC still sucks.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

And that is why you are ignorant.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Afraid not.

[213374U]

I don't see what's the problem with SW d20. If you don't like the setting, that's fine, but then it has nothing to do with which system is used to make a RPG out of it. Just let those of us who do enjoy the setting have a RPG set there.

 

Also, the d20 version is much better than the old d6 one, and I think that it's better to have a d20 version (much as you might hate it) than have nothing at all.

 

But hey, that's just little old logical me.

 

That said, I'm not going to sign any petitions. I'm too lazy and I know that those don't accomplish anything.

[Judge Hades]

So sorry but WotC still sucks.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

And that is why you are ignorant.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Afraid not.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Afraid so.

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

Theyve got the #1 selling RPG of all time and it still isnt profitable enough? Haha, these corporate types should be taken out and shot for the good of humanity

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

It sells well for a roleplaying game. But not in comparrison to the other stuff Hasbro deal in.

 

Problem is that aside from new editions you have to convince people that all those supplements are worth it. It's not like trading cards where you kind of have to buy into it if you want to stay competative , supplements are very much optional and most of them sell poorly.

[Kaftan Barlast]

Well, the issue here is "not enough profit". I mean, as long as youre making a profit, how small it may be, you have no reason to close down the shop. Its just logic.

 

 

..but logic doesnt seem popular with people who think with their stock portfolios

Edited October 24, 2005 by Kaftan Barlast

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

Well, the issue here is "not enough profit". I mean, as long as youre making a profit, how small it may be, you have no reason to close down the shop. Its just logic.

 

 

..but logic doesnt seem popular with people who think with their stock portfolios

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I think that attitude holds as long as you actually like the thing you are carrying. Rather than just looking at it as something that makes you money.

 

It is logical if you want to replace something in your portfolio with something more profitable. RPGs tend to spike in profitablility following a new rules set , then steadily decline. Then spike again when there is another new rules set.

 

There isnt really anything that mainstreams D&D or gets it noticed. If not for online purchasing then you couldnt buy a D&D product around where I live even if you wanted to.

[metadigital]

Theyve got the #1 selling RPG of all time and it still isnt profitable enough? Haha, these corporate types should be taken out and shot for the good of humanity

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Definition of marketing: sneaky self-centred criminally-inclined sociopaths that use meta-sociopathy to predict and control others in society.

[Walsingham]

I'm liking that definition.

[Darque]

So sorry but WotC still sucks.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

And that is why you are ignorant.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Afraid not.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Afraid so.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Afraid not.

 

WotC is the suckiest suck to ever suck a sucktastic suck.

[Gabrielle]

How smurfy.

[Petay]

In what way?

 

EDIT: Ah, I see what your trying to smurf, smurf on!

Edited November 6, 2005 by Petay

[Gabrielle]

Smurf off.

[Jediphile]

People who say "WotC sucks" or they "f**ked up TSR" obviously have no clue what was going on in the background.  As was said TSR was dead and broke when WotC moved in.  If they didn't put their money on the line TSR would have gone bankrupt and Dungeons and Dragons, as well with all their product lines, would be dead and gone.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

True, but that doesn't mean the WOTC is the company it used to be. It was actually interested in gaming when Peter Adkinson (sp?) was still there, but after he was bought out and Hasbro took over, the company turned into the very suits they had claimed so hard for years that they were not. WotC saved D&D, yes, but nobody saved WotC...

 

No more Gamma World, no more Dungeons and Dragons, no more Alternity, no more Forgotten Realms, no more Ravenloft, no more Planescape, no more Dark Sun, and so forth.  There would be nothing.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Oh please... Let's just recap - Gamma World had long since been dead and buried, and despite talk and talk, it never came back. WOTC didn't change anything on that.

 

D&D was saved - as mentioned - but then that was the cash-cow that made investing in TSR interesting.

 

Alternity was already dead and stayed so. Shame though, that was a decent game that never got much of a chance... Not that I blame TSR or WOTC - it just never found its audience.

 

Forgotten Realms is the chief D&D world and there are far too many munchkin fanboys out there who wants to play just to meet Elminster or Drizzt to ever let it die. Money can be made that way even with crappy material (as it indeed has been), and it still sold, even when TSR dissed the author who created Drizzt, so saving FR is a no-brainer.

 

As for Ravenloft, Planescape, and Dark Sun, how much of that material has WOTC published? Oh yes, they published the stuff that TSR already had in development, but they did not support the creation of new material, and they were all promptly killed off when 3e appeared on the horizon. Ravenloft has made it back from limbo, but only because an outside company was willing to pay for the priviledge - not because WOTC developed it in any way. And needless to say, Planescape and Dark Sun are still dead. Credit where credit is due, yes, but also when its negative. You cannot claim that WOTC saved those settings. It's just not quite what happened.

 

WotC took over and made 3e then 3.5e, but you people seem to forget that WotC is a business and as a business they are there to make money.  If a setting isn't worth the money to support then why the hell should they support it?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

If a setting doesn't sell, then it goes under. Period. That's what happened to my favorite D&D setting (Mystara), because TSR royally screwed up the transition to AD&D rules... :angry:

 

The d20 System revitalized a dying market and kept Dungeons and Dragons alive.  If that makes WotC a bunch of **** then they are my type of ****.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

That's a matter of opinion. 3e sold, but I don't agree that it's D&D. It's not bad, but it is a different game in my book. I even hear people who play and like 3e saying so.

 

EDIT:  Also here is something of note, one of the reasons why WotC is dropping certain settings and such for d20 is because they are prepping to sell the d20 System.  They did their work and now its time for the next stage.  It would be cool if Malhavoc could buy the system from WotC.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Personally I just want d20 to die and fade to the winds - there are much better and far more flexible systems out there.

[Jediphile]

Think what you will of WotC, but that's not true. When WotC bought TSR, TSR was on the brink of going under. There was no money left in the company. Then they turned the company around, partially by renegotiating with the creative people that were at odds with TSR (there is a reason AD&D is called ADVANCED D&D instead of second edition).

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I do believe the original AD&D system came out before TSR went to war with Dave Arneson. It's true for later editions of the game, though.

 

I'm not saying WotC is the best thing to happen to gaming, but they did save TSR and 3E D&D was definitely a step in the right direction.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Save TSR? Yes. A step in the right direction? I couldn't possibly disagree more - WOTC tried to corner the market and kill diversity in RPGs (read this if you don't believe me). Thankfully they didn't quite succeed, and there are still good RPG systems out there.

 

WotC took a turn for the worse when they got bought up by Hasbro though.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Yep, that's exactly where it all began to go downhill...

Edited November 6, 2005 by Jediphile

[Kaftan Barlast]

I think everyone has lost perspective on what a bussiness was originally meant for:

 

 

 

The primary function of a manufacturer of RPGs is to make and supply the public with the best possible RPGs they can make.

 

 

As like how grocery stores are there to supply the people with food, the transportation company to make sure you can get where you need to go, the phone company so you can call or send data where you need to.

 

 

 

*shakes fist*

[Spider]

Save TSR? Yes. A step in the right direction? I couldn't possibly disagree more - WOTC tried to corner the market and kill diversity in RPGs (read this if you don't believe me). Thankfully they didn't quite succeed, and there are still good RPG systems out there.

 

As far as the plan with the d20 system goes, I'd agree with you. Killing diversity is a bad thing. But at the same time a product that allows other developers to focus on content rather than rules has positive effects as well. So I'm a little ambivalent when it comes to the whole d20 concept.

 

However, when I said 3e rules was a step in the right direction I meant for the D&D franchise specifically. I think that the 3e rules are a vast improvement over 2e, if for nothing else they are much easier to get into.