Jade Empire Bombed

[EnderAndrew]

That said, misquoting someone's post on purpose to make it seem theyw rote something is against forum policy. therefore, you are reported.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You said my statements were false, and lated called the mythical.

 

Saying that I made false statements is the same thing as calling me a liar.

 

Back-pedalling is not a skill in TOMBS, btw.

[alanschu]

"Why wouldn't they? They've had great sellers before.

 

I doubt they went into the development of Jade Empire thinking they only wanted to release a smaller title. MDK 2 would fit that bill."

 

JE is not BG-NWN-KOTOR for obvious reasons. Figure out the differences on your own. Thankyou for playing. 

 

And, once again, according to said article, BIO is happy with JE's sales so it seems to be whatever their expectations were JE surely didn't 'bomb'. Game over.

 

Baldur's Gate wasn't even Baldur's Gate until Baldur's Gate got released.

 

I don't know how much of a draw games like BG and NWN are for being a D&D world. I don't play D&D but I really liked Baldur's Gate, it's sequel, and Neverwinter Nights.

 

Are you saying that Baldur's Gate sold as much as it did because it was in an "established" (i.e. cult favourite) game setting? If that's the case, then I don't think you give Bioware enough credit then.

[Volourn]

"You said my statements were false, and lated called the mythical.

 

Saying that I made false statements is the same thing as calling me a liar.

 

Back-pedalling is not a skill in TOMBS, btw."

 

I asked for proof. That's not saying they were false. And, no, I didn't call you a liar. I said you lacked prove of the existence of BIO quotes.

 

Yet, you said I had no proof that BIO was happy with JE's sales even though I gave proof in the think in the very first post of this thread that they are happy with JE's sales, and they even give their reasoning for their happiness - JE is an original IP, and therefore happy that they managed to seell 500k+ units of the game.

 

 

"Baldur's Gate wasn't even Baldur's Gate until Baldur's Gate got released.

 

I don't know how much of a draw games like BG and NWN are for being a D&D world. I don't play D&D but I really liked Baldur's Gate, it's sequel, and Neverwinter Nights.

 

Are you saying that Baldur's Gate sold as much as it did because it was in an "established" (i.e. cult favourite) game setting? If that's the case, then I don't think you give Bioware enough credit then."

 

D&D has upwards of 10 million players playing the pnp version. That's an already built in possible audience for D&D games. Some people, like myself, will buy almost anything with the D&D logo. Heck, that's why I bought BG. Before BG, I didn't know who the heck BIO were. They weren't even my radar as far as games go.

 

And, it's not about giving BIo credit because it doesn't chnage the quality of BG. You also seem to forget that BIO's first game - SS - sold 200k units. While not flashly, that was decent for their first game. JE being their newest game has the history of BIO behind it which is why it easily outsold SS; but to assume that JE would sell as much as BG is silly because JE's only built in audience are BIO fans who do not exist in the same numbers as the D&D license or the SW license.

 

Unlike BG which I bought b/c of the D&D name, my interest in JE wa sbecause of BIO. However, as 'big' as BIO is they don't have as large a fan base as D&D does. This is why expecting JE to sell as much as BG or NWN doesn't work logically.

 

And, wow. You liked NWN?

[213374U]

Amazing. People still haven't figured out how Volo's arguements go.

 

Volo: <random statement> R00fles!

User X: "Uh, no, not really."

Volo: "PROOF PLEASE!?!1"

User X: "Okay, here you go" *presents proof*

Volo: "That's not proof, game over, next, thanks for playing, R00fles!"

 

[Child of Flame]

"Classic baiting.

 

Reported."

 

LOL As you wish, but there is no baiting go on.

 

 

 

"I am claiming that everyone is thread is lying, but I can't possibly conceive that Bioware would be anything but sincere in saying the game is a commercial success despite poor sales.  If they say the game did well, then surely it did!  There is no possible agenda, and surely Bioware isn't put in a situation where they have no choice but to stand behind their product.

 

Game over!  Man, I come up with the best arguements in the whole wide world!"

 

Asking for proof is not the same thing as calling someone a liar. You should know the difference.

 

That said, misquoting someone's post on purpose to make it seem theyw rote something is against forum policy. therefore, you are reported.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Do any of the mods even look at your reports anymore? You report someone in practically any thread you post in. And 'misquoting someone else's post' is against forum policy?

 

That's a new one to me.

[jaguars4ever]

All right guys - let's settle this issue once and for all:

 

While we can theorize that the producion cost was in the $5-10 million range, the $5million gradation in range fails to allow for any accurate derivation of actual profit/loss data; and hence is unavailable to us. We seem to be gauging the status of "commercial success" based on revenue alone, that is, the quantity sold ~ 500k, and it's inherent income thereof.

 

Now there seems to be a discrepancy when ascertaining success by this method. While Volo suggests 500k copies is relatively good for any game, Ender is flat out rebuffing it as poor performance for game sales in general.

 

Both of you can't be right.

[alanschu]

Since I never addressed your first post:

 

R00fles! What a joke! 500k+ copies is pretty darn good. Why do certain people continually say that JE bombed? What a mythical myth! This so called 'price lowering' means nothing espicially since wher eI am it is still $50+. R00fles!

 

And, oh, BIO has never said that their URE game is a first person shooter thingof migjig. Stop trying to say it is when you have no proof. R00fles!

 

BIo has 3 games so far that have semi announced (I bet they have a 4th theya re keeping really under wraps) 2 xbox games (inlcuding JE2 - you know the game that bombed so bad it alreayd has a sequel on the way), and DA for PC.

 

Anyways, source is the following: http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/646/646723p1.html

 

The link you specify specifically states that they have 4 development teams.

 

 

As for the FPS RPG, Bioware's own response was "It's inevitable."

 

 

As for the Bioware comment, they might be happy. But all that is moot if Microsoft isn't happy. Unfortunately they couldn't be bothered to comment.

[Volourn]

"Do any of the mods even look at your reports anymore? You report someone in practically any thread you post in. And 'misquoting someone else's post' is against forum policy?

 

That's a new one to me."

 

They do, actually. Eldar even asked it to eb cooled in public. Heh. Actually, 99% of my 'reports' are on one guy- Ender. I haven't reported too many others. And, yes, misquoting someone on purpose (by editing what theyw rote while pretending its an actual quote) is against board policy. I used to do it myself then someone complained, and I got chastized for it so meh.

 

 

"The link you specify specifically states that they have 4 development teams."

 

Aye. I;m not following here. Is this in reference to me stating that BIo likely has another secret project theya ren't mentioning? Like I said, it's really top secret.

 

 

"As for the FPS RPG, Bioware's own response was "It's inevitable.""

 

Yes. Inevitable. That doesn't neccessarily mean that this particualr game is a fps rpg. BIO has not confirmed that. In fact, BIO has made it a point to point out that the URE is very capable of powering a 3rd person view rpg. Of course, the URE game *could* be 1st person; but it doesn't have to be.

[kirottu]

Now there seems to be a discrepancy when ascertaining success by this method.  While Volo suggests 500k copies is relativley good for any game, Ender is flat out rebuffing it as poor performance for game sales in general.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I think 500k copies would enough for smaller titles, but for a developer like Bioware it just doesn

[EnderAndrew]

There is no settling of any arguements with Volourn. I'm just walking away.

[alanschu]

D&D has upwards of 10 million players playing the pnp version. That's an already built in possible audience for D&D games. Some people, like myself, will buy almost anything with the D&D logo. Heck, that's why I bought BG. Before BG, I didn't know who the heck BIO were. They weren't even my radar as far as games go.

 

So? I didn't even know it was a D&D game until I played it. I just heard it was a good game. Given the sales of Baldur's Gate compared to other D&D games, I think it appealed to more than just the D&D crowd.

 

And, it's not about giving BIo credit because it doesn't chnage the quality of BG. You also seem to forget that BIO's first game - SS - sold 200k units. While not flashly, that was decent for their first game. JE being their newest game has the history of BIO behind it which is why it easily outsold SS; but to assume that JE would sell as much as BG is silly because JE's only built in audience are BIO fans who do not exist in the same numbers as the D&D license or the SW license

 

Jade Empire was also a game that was actually marketted. It was also on a gaming console, which is a much more proven seller than a PC is for gaming (hence the giant shift of PC developers now making console games).

 

In fact, when you put it like that, the 500k seems less impressive. Bioware was able to make a new game with zero reputation (and a handful of programmers), and successfully sell it on the "dying" PC game platform. Then, after a few multimillion sellers, they release a game that, despite having a near flawless reputation for quality and infinite more name recognition and marketting power (ala Microsoft), they only exceed their first game by 300k?

 

Ouch.

[Archmonarch]

I completely agree.

 

The storytelling wasn't groundbreaking, the story itself was weak, and the combat was weak.

 

The one thing they did well was create a beautiful world.  Too bad we saw very little of it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Agreed. This is what I have been saying all along.

 

 

I am claiming that everyone is thread is lying, but I can't possibly conceive that Bioware would be anything but sincere in saying the game is a commercial success despite poor sales.  If they say the game did well, then surely it did!  There is no possible agenda, and surely Bioware isn't put in a situation where they have no choice but to stand behind their product.

 

Game over!  Man, I come up with the best arguements in the whole wide world!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Volourn, meet Commercialism. Commercialism, meet Volourn.

 

Amazing. People still haven't figured out how Volo's arguements go.

 

Volo: <random statement> R00fles!

User X: "Uh, no, not really."

Volo: "PROOF PLEASE!?!1"

User X: "Okay, here you go" *presents proof*

Volo: "That's not proof, game over, next, thanks for playing, R00fles!"

 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I hold out hope that the idiots can be saved through logic and reason. So far all experiments have proved to the contrary. Volo has been one of my main research subjects.

[alanschu]

Aye. I;m not following here. Is this in reference to me stating that BIo likely has another secret project theya ren't mentioning? Like I said, it's really top secret.

 

It was just that you mention that they have 3 games, but "bet" there's likely another one out there. Well duh, Bioware themselves stated it in the link themselves.

 

Yes. Inevitable. That doesn't neccessarily mean that this particualr game is a fps rpg. BIO has not confirmed that. In fact, BIO has made it a point to point out that the URE is very capable of powering a 3rd person view rpg. Of course, the URE game *could* be 1st person; but it doesn't have to be.

 

Given the response when asked about it shortly after acquiring the Unreal Engine, if I had to predict if it would be a FPS or not I'd choose FPS.

[jaguars4ever]

I think 500k copies would enough for smaller titles, but for a developer like Bioware it just doesn

[alanschu]

I don't think that production costs are in the fixed range of 5-10 million.

 

Even then, that's a pretty big range, given the upper end is double the lower end.

 

In any case, I'm not sure exactly what posting your question is trying to solve though.

[jaguars4ever]

I don't think that production costs are in the fixed range of 5-10 million.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That is the figure Ender quoted. At any rate, the prod. cost has steadliy been increasing every year.

 

--

 

In any case, I'm not sure exactly what posting your question is trying to solve though.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Volo states 500k is teh r0x0rz!

Ender states 500k is teh sux0rz!

 

Only one can be teh Pwnmeister which makes the other is the dirty h4x0r!!1!

 

See? :D

[kirottu]

I don't think that production costs are in the fixed range of 5-10 million.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That is the figure Ender quoted. At any rate, the prod. cost has steadliy been increasing every year.

 

--

 

In any case, I'm not sure exactly what posting your question is trying to solve though.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Volo states 500k is teh r0x0rz!

Ender states 500k is teh sux0rz!

 

Only one can be teh Pwnmeister which makes the other is the dirty h4x0r!!1!

 

See? :D

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

We would need someone who is in the buisness to tell us how much money does 50$ game make per product sold. Is it really only 7% as someone said? There

[jaguars4ever]

We would need someone who is in the buisness to tell us how much money does 50$ game make per product sold. Is it really only 7% as someone said? There

[Volourn]

"I find this "orginal product = bad sales" argument kinda strange. If it really is so why has Bioware moved to making only orginal products?"

 

More control, no having to pay for licenses, and so on. And, 500k sales is not 'bad sales'.

 

 

"It was just that you mention that they have 3 games, but "bet" there's likely another one out there. Well duh, Bioware themselves stated it in the link themselves."

 

Where's the beef? I admitted this was strictly conjecture on my part based on the fact that BIO's had 'secret' projects already. Afterall, even before a porject si even semi announced there's likely to have been some work done on it.

 

 

"Given the response when asked about it shortly after acquiring the Unreal Engine, if I had to predict if it would be a FPS or not I'd choose FPS."

 

And, your prediction is fair, and acceptable. It's also completely different than what the article tries to say is 100% factual when it isn't.

 

 

"So? I didn't even know it was a D&D game until I played it. I just heard it was a good game. Given the sales of Baldur's Gate compared to other D&D games, I think it appealed to more than just the D&D crowd."

 

BG has sold 2 million copies in nearing 10 years of existence. D&D has millions of players. I think its a safe bet that the majority of BG fans have also played pnp D&D fans. Of cours,e there are those liek yourself who didn't play D&D. That's fine. That doesn't mean the typical BG player isn't a D&D player.

 

 

"Jade Empire was also a game that was actually marketted. It was also on a gaming console, which is a much more proven seller than a PC is for gaming (hence the giant shift of PC developers now making console games)."

 

BG was marketed. It also came out in a time where people weren't crying about the presumed 'detah' of PC gaming.

 

 

"Then, after a few multimillion sellers, they release a game that, despite having a near flawless reputation for quality and infinite more name recognition and marketting power (ala Microsoft), they only exceed their first game by 300k?"

 

SS has sold 200k units over 10 year. JE has sold 500k units in 6 months. There is no comparison.

 

Ouch for SS.

[Dhruin]

Quote me a quantity that any developer can state that if they sold X amount of copies, it is considered to be commercially successful in the game industry.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

We already did that. David Gaider, again:

Games do get made that don't require mass market sales. They are made by small developers, however, with fairly small budgets. A major title like NWN or DA has a lot of people working on it and a large budget... it needs to think about how it's going to achieve sales that are in the order of a million or more. Not thousands or tens of thousands or even a few hundred thousand.

 

Personally, I think JE with it's 50-80 devs, double the poly count count of KotOR and first-time-ever for BioWare motion-captured animation would count as a "major title". But hey - maybe I mistook it for a cheap budget title.

[kirottu]

And, 500k sales is not 'bad sales'.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Ah, but we don

[kirottu]

David Gaider, again:

Games do get made that don't require mass market sales. They are made by small developers, however, with fairly small budgets. A major title like NWN or DA has a lot of people working on it and a large budget... it needs to think about how it's going to achieve sales that are in the order of a million or more. Not thousands or tens of thousands or even a few hundred thousand.

 

Personally, I think JE with it's 50-80 devs, double the poly count count of KotOR and first-time-ever for BioWare motion-captured animation would count as a "major title". But hey - maybe I mistook it for a cheap budget title.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Well, that settles it then. 500k copies isn

[Judge Hades]

Why the hell should how much a game sales matter to us anyway? Are we Bioware employees? No. Do we have a vested and financial interest in JE? No. A game is either fun to play or not fun to play, and bottomline if we are just game players that is what matters most.

[Child of Flame]

I do too! Do you know how many MS stocks I have!!!

[Judge Hades]

But how much in Bioware since it was Bioware who foot the bill of production?