World Of Warcraft rant

[Calax]

Several things have been bothering me since I've played War3: Frozen Throne, and WoW. First of all, I thought the main factions were supposed to be fighting each other, it seems like they are agreeing to disagree rather than sending armies against various areas over the continents and trying desperately to wipe each other out. For example the Undead are close to Ironforge and there isn't even a hint of a military presence near by. amazingly there are orcs within walking distance but no undead. And I don't quite understand how darnassus and the newbie area up there ever came to be, I mean the tree did explode but I doubt that would have caused and entire landmass to break off. Also the Humans don't have a presence on the shores of Kalimdor to represent those who fled with Jaina and later with Lord Proudmoore (see bonus campaign for details). I would think that there would at least be something other than Theramore on that coast and it would certainly be more populated. then there's the fact that Arthas has yet to make a move against either the leftovers of the Alliance or the newly strengthened horde.

 

I also question the faction divisions, considering that the Orcs and the Humans were getting along for that last battle, I can see where the humans in Azeroth and what few remained in Lorderon would fight against the orcs but I don't see how those who were on Kalimdor would.) Also the undead wouldn't exactly be friends with the orcs considering that they were fighting each other a few years before. Sure it's the Forsaken not the Scourge but still the reaction to the undead by the orcs would be more like that the humans generally have towards the orcs rather than the "Let's get together!" reaction that they seem to have. If I had my druthers the Humans, Orcs, Dwarves, and Tauren would be the Alliance races while the Forsaken would just be there, as a neutral faction who would be affected by the action of players on the server, for example if they are constantly getting prayed upon by a certain faction then there would be some sort of response in that factions territories. The other side of the coin (the non-alliance faction) would more than likely be the Naga, Blood Elves, and what ever races you could think up of. Maybe have a few humans tossed in there to represent that a race is not always of one-heart-one-mind and the leftovers of Garithos' wannabe's. they would constantly be trying to do two things, Restore magic and Kill Arthas.

 

Anyway, out of fantasy world and into the game world. I find it immensely disturbing that several things from both games seem to have little or no effect on the game world. As I said earlier, you don't see the armies of the Alliance and Horde clashing on massive battlefields, EXCEPT in the Alterac Valley zone. The fact that they don't allow there to be roving army's (which was the feeling I got from War3) wandering around and fighting each other at every chance they got. Nor are there many bases left over from the other two wars. I would have expected the lands to be strewn with leftovers from battles fought years before this game. Also the graveyards need a little work (spirit healer? sounds like a wysp). Why not just have an Altar Like they did in War3? you pay a little bit of money to get yourself back into the game at the town (rather than outside in some god forsaken wasteland (who puts a graveyard in a god forsaken wasteland anyway?)) or you can just go find your body like in the original games. ok not games, just War3.

 

The fact that the Paladins (our holy saviors from War3) have become just plate wearing priests who can't do squat for damage, is also a question. Most of the items made for them have been based around the concept of "They are only healers. But we also made them able to resist damage! YAY AIN'T WE GREAT?" (Dev). Paladins would make for great "tanks" in that they are able to resist damage and heal themselves. Only problem is EVERY other class (including the shaman, who's supposedly their opposite) does more damage, or Heals more. I would say that this would make a great Solo character but the fact that they don't get decent defensive items and take forever to kill something really damages the idea. If your going to try to make paladins a "support" character try at least giving them a ranged DoT. They can't use bows, they can't use guns, they don't have attack spells, they pay a heck of a lot of mana for their healing abilities, they can't tank, they can't resurrect somebody while considered in combat, they aren

[metadigital]

I couldn't even finish the prologue to Frozen Throne. I played (and enjoyed) Warcraft III, obviously, otherwise I wouldn't have bought the expansion, but the wood elves were just too boring, and the game revealed as too generic (learn a new unit production tree for this race) for me to be interested.

 

Sorry, I didn't read your rant past the second sentence. "

[Gabrielle]

The title of the thread is flawed. Should read World of Warcrap.

[Dark Moth]

^^^ HERETIC!!!! Burn!!!

 

Actually, I don't own WoW. I did play Warcraft III and its expansion, and I liked both, but I'm too poor to pay monthly for an MMORPG. I wished the Pandarens were a playable race. Playing a giant drunken panda appeals to me for some reason.

 

You make some good points, Calax, but as for race behavior, I think that's simply because everyone's still trying to rebuild their own races (hence they aren't fighting each other in huge battles), and old hatreds are still present, esp. since there's no iminent threat from the burning legion. (hence they have no outside threat to unite them, although I'd say the undead are a threat as much as anything)

[alanschu]

He's one of the very few people I've seen that claim the Paladin isn't strong enough.

 

I suspect he doesn't know how to use his seals and judgements appropriately.

 

I've seen a single Paladin take out two higher level badguys...a warlock and a fighter. And this was all around the level 50 range to boot.

[Carnage]

The title of the thread is flawed. Should read World of Warcrap.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

(w00t) (w00t)

[Calax]

He's one of the very few people I've seen that claim the Paladin isn't strong enough.

 

I suspect he doesn't know how to use his seals and judgements appropriately.

 

I've seen a single Paladin take out two higher level badguys...a warlock and a fighter.  And this was all around the level 50 range to boot.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

have you ever seen a pack of paladins take on a Boss in an instance and win? No, they wouldn't even get that far because they can't do enough damage. Sure they can be powerful, but unless you want to hang around for six hours I would think that you would want backup on a raid. Also most of their equipment isn't meant for fighting, it's meant to put them firmly in the "surviving healers" catagory.

[alanschu]

I've never seen a pack of any one class try to take on a boss.

 

My level 33 Paladin wins pretty much all one on one fights however, whether it be PvE or PvP. The only class that can get me easily is a Priest that has manaburn.

 

If they're equipment isn't meant for fighting, then I guess fighter's aren't meant for fighting.....given that Paladin's can use the same melee weapons as a fighter.

 

The biggest disadvantage of the Paladin is the inability to pull a guy.

[Guest Fishboot]

Warriors can do plenty of damage. Mortal Strike and any 3.5+ second delay 2H weapon is gross, as is Overpower with the critical hit talent. When I stopped playing the warrior weapon of choice was the Arcanite Reaper, an axe whose main claim to fame was its monstrous 4-something second delay, which made the instant hit of MS brutal. In particular, in PvP a warrior should absolutely mash any rogue into the ground - warriors amount to "rock" to a rogues "scissors".

 

As for the capture the flag and the other battleground, they're just indicative that Blizzard has given up on immersion completely in favor of throwing in a few time tested team game archetypes - as they should.

[alanschu]

I would have preferred the Battlegrounds to be something more "warlike" such as capturing objectives or whatnot, so as to not pull out of the environment too much.

 

Capture the flag just screams "I'm a game!!!" too loudly

[Walsingham]

I should like to take this opportunity to remind you all that I have never played WoW.

 

AHAHAHHAHAHAHA!

[Hurlshort]

I love WoW. It's an absolutely stunning world, and each race and class has a genuinely unique feel to it. It also has some great quests that tell interesting storylines.

 

I also play a Paladin, he's level 45. I've heard the end game content is tough on a Paladin, but honestly I think they rock. They are the hardest class to kill in the game. They may not do the same damage as the other classes, but that's because they can outlast anyone. Also, try engineering with the paladin if your worried about ranged attacks. Nothing like a mithril bomb to start of a fight.

 

Plot holes bleh, I play to have fun. I also don't play to farm xp of get Phat Lewt. It's a social experience set in a beautiful game world.

[Musopticon?]

I love Azeroth. Too bad the games they use to represent the world seem to get more and more generic. Back when WC3 was going gold, the whole thought of orcs being the good guys and the undead practically being a disease, a wave of death, gave me moments of spontaneous cackling. Nowadays; the orcs are once again with the dumb brutes and dark forces and humans hold the flag of all that's good and honorable. Blizzard also hackeyed drow to the series. Freakin' wonderful. I hope they get to their senses when WC4 goes to pipe. Though with Bill Roper and folks gone, I doubt it.

 

[Drakron]

Several things have been bothering me since I've played War3: Frozen Throne, and WoW.

 

Lets see ....

 

First of all, I thought the main factions were supposed to be fighting each other, it seems like they are agreeing to disagree rather than sending armies against various areas over the continents and trying desperately to wipe each other out.

 

And you said you played Frozen Throne ....

 

They are at peace, there are tensions but not downright warfare.

 

For example the Undead are close to Ironforge and there isn't even a hint of a military presence near by.

 

Really?

 

How about Dun Modr ... yes its under attack but its a dwarven stronghold.

 

 

amazingly there are orcs within walking distance but no undead. And I don't quite understand how darnassus and the newbie area up there ever came to be, I mean the tree did explode but I doubt that would have caused and entire landmass to break off.

 

If you played Frozen Throne you know Darnassus is the new tree to replace the one in mount Hyjad.

 

Its even on the manual and no, that is no landmass ... the whole island IS the tree.

 

Also the Humans don't have a presence on the shores of Kalimdor to represent those who fled with Jaina and later with Lord Proudmoore (see bonus campaign for details).

I would think that there would at least be something other than Theramore on that coast and it would certainly be more populated. then there's the fact that Arthas has yet to make a move against either the leftovers of the Alliance or the newly strengthened horde.

 

It seens the refugies moved back to Stormwind, Kalimdor cannot really support human population since there are the Night Elves, Tauren and Orcs living there and the Night Elves forests are being pushed for resources.

 

 

I also question the faction divisions, considering that the Orcs and the Humans were getting along for that last battle, I can see where the humans in Azeroth and what few remained in Lorderon would fight against the orcs but I don't see how those who were on Kalimdor would.) Also the undead wouldn't exactly be friends with the orcs considering that they were fighting each other a few years before.

 

Humans and Orcs have a long story of conflic, in the Night Elves case its a question of resources and the fact the Orcs killed their demigod and protector.

 

The Tauren allied with the Orcs.

 

 

Sure it's the Forsaken not the Scourge but still the reaction to the undead by the orcs would be more like that the humans generally have towards the orcs rather than the "Let's get together!" reaction that they seem to have. If I had my druthers the Humans, Orcs, Dwarves, and Tauren would be the Alliance races while the Forsaken would just be there, as a neutral faction who would be affected by the action of players on the server, for example if they are constantly getting prayed upon by a certain faction then there would be some sort of response in that factions territories.

 

That is a mistake, the Orcs and Tauren are Horde.

 

I dont like the Forsaken much either, I suspect they were put in to put the Horde number of races equal to the Alliance.

 

The other side of the coin (the non-alliance faction) would more than likely be the Naga, Blood Elves, and what ever races you could think up of. Maybe have a few humans tossed in there to represent that a race is not always of one-heart-one-mind and the leftovers of Garithos' wannabe's. they would constantly be trying to do two things, Restore magic and Kill Arthas.

 

That would make no sense, you trying to turn WoW into Warcraft IV and its not.

 

Naga and Blood Elves role are yet to be disclosed, they likely will show up in a expansion and as likely they will be their own fraction.

[Calax]

Paladins, all things being equal (ie at level 60) get demolished because they can't do any damage worth note. On the raids I've been on the paladins hang back and heal their allies for that very reason. At one point in the molten core, the guild I play with (I don't have an account, I use friends) got all but wiped at Lucifron, then they just had the paladins rush it with some priestly help, needless to say the paladins got turned into several piles of nothingness after doing a grand total of 1% of his life.

 

I admit I was a little bit hard on Rogues but I don't think that they should be the melee damage doers. Warriors should be the paragon of melee. this isn't to say that other classes shouldn't be competant with melee it's just that the fact that rogues and hunters are seperate classes is questionable. Rogues are usually the ones who stand behind the warrior and punt a crossbow into sombodys back. Most rogues that you find in fiction and fantasy are the type to use bows before they use blades because they are, at the most basic level, playing to win, and that will generally cause the rogue to use "cheap shots". there is a difference but there are rogues who when both classes are maxed (Warriors and Rogues) the Rogues can have more health and can do more damage, if they had plate they would be able to be a better tankers than the warriors.

 

You say I'm asking for Warcraft 4. I am, because with WoW people won't want the world to either vanish or change to the point that their stuff will become useless. And because if they did want to have a story between 3 and 4 they would have to have the leaders try to act it out in the WoW. otherwise some MMO players will yell that this screws them over, they would loose players, and ultimatly either one game or the other would be ruined because they have to dovetail them to work with eachother, meaning that they either have to have an enormus patch, or the game itself would have to have a design change to represent the different world that the players are in.

[Cathryn]

As for the capture the flag and the other battleground, they're just indicative that Blizzard has given up on immersion completely in favor of throwing in a few time tested team game archetypes - as they should.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

That's why I appreciate WoW for making itself the last MMO I will ever play...no need to play another one, it had the majority of features all the other ones did and still managed to make me hate logging in after the initial 'oooh, new stuff' wore off. Finally got me to give up MMOs all together.

[Musopticon?]

Finally got me to give up MMOs all together.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Applaudable. The less we play the less we get them. ^_^

[Cathryn]

Applaudable. The less we play the less we get them. ^_^

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Considering how many people do play I'm not keeping my fingers crossed for that. It's ok by me, pretty sure we'll always have single-player games As long as the MMO players are having fun, more power to them...it's just that most MMO players I know have a weird masochistic relationship with the game that makes me question what they do to a person's mind. If someone is having fun I am glad to hear it.

[Musopticon?]

I'd be pro-mmo, if they had all the merits of single-player, like a decent plot and no playerkillers. Not to mention a different focus. I mean, it's great to play together, but when the average Jay McGay-player is such a dork... *sigh*

[Jumjalum]

Rogues would be a lot more interesting if you could actually steal things in WoW.

[Cathryn]

Rogues would be a lot more interesting if you could actually steal things in WoW.

 

and

 

I'd be pro-mmo, if they had all the merits of single-player, like a decent plot and no playerkillers. Not to mention a different focus. I mean, it's great to play together, but when the average Jay McGay-player is such a dork... *sigh*

 

Two related things...it's often been the players who inhibit much innovation in MMOs. Looting/stealing comes up everytime someone makes a PvP game and the playerbase throws a fit over it, so it usually gets axed.

[Jumjalum]

Yeah true, it would be a balance nightmare. Even if it was limited to stealing from shops it wouldn't work, I guess they'll always be limited to opening the occasional lockbox and du3l w33lding.

[Drakron]

Two related things...it's often been the players who inhibit much innovation in MMOs. Looting/stealing comes up everytime someone makes a PvP game and the playerbase throws a fit over it, so it usually gets axed.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Wrong.

 

You think someone in a PnP game will like another player steals from his character?

 

Such behavior is looked down, DM simply do not allow that no matter how much "roleplaying" excuse the player have.

 

If that does not work with 4-6 people why sould it work with over 10,000?

 

Sould my equipment be stolen because some grief player 10 levels above me wants to get a quick source of money and picks on me?

 

Sure he might have a "roleplaying excuse" as everyone does when they go piss off everyone else, like high level go camping on a newbie area and kill off quest NPCs and player alike ... I am sure they are roleplaying "something".

 

The reason the playerbase throws a "fit" over it is because they recognize the issues that comes with it, either because it was done before and they seen the results first hand or because they see exactly what is going to happen.

 

Stealing is the WORST IDEA EVER! on a MMORPG because grief players would have a field day with it.

[Drakron]

... You say I'm asking for Warcraft 4. I am, because with WoW people won't want the world to either vanish or change to the point that their stuff will become useless.

 

WoW is not a RTS, its a MMORPG.

 

People expect the world to change with WarCraft 4 since that is the main line of the WarCraft universe, WoW is NOT the main line.

 

Nobody sould expected WoW to be anything else besides what happed at the end of Frozen Throne since WoW team is NOT in charge of WarCraft story development.

 

And because if they did want to have a story between 3 and 4 they would have to have the leaders try to act it out in the WoW.

 

That will not happen because WarCraft RTS players are not expected to be playing WoW and so not be "in the know" of what is happening, as everything the start of WarCraft 4 will explain the story that will developed over the missions and campains.

 

otherwise some MMO players will yell that this screws them over, they would loose players, and ultimatly either one game or the other would be ruined because they have to dovetail them to work with eachother, meaning that they either have to have an enormus patch, or the game itself would have to have a design change to represent the different world that the players are in.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Again no because WoW is not going to set WarCraft 4 storyline in the first place.

[Cathryn]

The reason the playerbase throws a "fit" over it is because they recognize the issues that comes with it, either because it was done before and they seen the results first hand or because they see exactly what is going to happen.

 

Whoa there...someone else pointed out that the lowest common denominator of player tends to ruin an MMO for everyone else, and I was responding to that. Because people grief/hack/bot/whatever, the rest of us get the same recycled stuff from other games. "Throwing a fit" was a poor choice of words though.