G-Phoria: KotOR II - Did they earn it?

[Guest MacleodCorp]

G-Phoria: KotOR II - Did they earn it?

Do you think Obsidian earned best RPG?

 

Yes! A few moments ago, I just watched KotOR II win best RPG. Within the category, the competition was very limited. Their most bigest competition was 'Jade Empire', which as we all know is made by BioWare. Okay, this is not big news, but they do desirve RPG of the year. Unfortunatly, G-Phoria was edited horribly, and we could not see the developers get any awards.

 

Unlike it's predecessor, KotOR II did not desive to be in any other category. However, I do want to send out a big THANK YOU to ObsidianEnt, for their hardwork, which brought us the most contreversial storyline in the history of Star Wars gaming...

 

(I didn't know where to put this topic, for it may contain spoilers.)

(I also couldn't find another post, which was related to G-Phoria and KotOR II. However, I know it is in these forums somewhere.)

 

G-Phoria: KotOR II - Did they earn it?

Do you think Obsidian earned best RPG?

[GhostofAnakin]

Yes, yes I do.

 

It was between them and JE (for me anyways), and although JE was more polished and had a better ending, overall TSL was a better game. Again, all IMO of course.

[Krookie]

Yeah, they earned it.

[Darkside]

Agreed. It wasn't polished, but it was still a heck of a game. Congrats to everyone at Obsidian, you guys earned it.

[DAWUSS]

And it would not even been an argument if it wasn't rushed.

 

Congrats OE!

[Master_Vrook]

This half-assed game is better then 100% of all RPG's using 100% of their ass.

[DeathScepter]

Kotor 2 and JE are the only two that is worth the title of the best RPG.

[master_pendrak]

KOTOR II TSL is a good RPG story wise just the cut content would make it better, and a better ending would be the cherry on top. But hell K2 deserved the award!

[Gabrielle]

Of course.

[Maverick4101]

Kotor 2 and JE are the only two that is worth the title of the best RPG.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

I don't know about that. Tales of Symphonia was a good game, have you even played it? Anyways I do think Kotor2 deserved the win.

[jediunkown]

this really surprised me that it beat jade empire. obsidian really needs a pat on the back for a game that isnt polished.

[Dark Moth]

I only think KOTOR 2 won RPG of the year for two reasons:

 

1. Some would argue that it didn't have much competition anyway (although I still wonder how it beat JE).

 

2. It was the sequal to K1. The majority of the things found in K2 were taken straight from K1, a game that was already lauded as one of the best X-Box titles/RPG's available.

 

Not to mention that the game was half-baked. That's gotta make you wonder about the sanity of the voters or the quality of the other RPG's. So no, I really don't think they truly earned it. Sorry, Obsidian. Yay! I'm the odd one out!

[GhostofAnakin]

2.  The majority of the things found in K2 were taken straight from K1, a game that was already lauded as one of the best X-Box titles/RPG's available. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

You just described pretty much every sequel out there (FO2, BG2, IWD2, etc). I guess by your definition NO sequel will ever be as good as the original since it shares some things in common with it.

[Dark Moth]

2.  The majority of the things found in K2 were taken straight from K1, a game that was already lauded as one of the best X-Box titles/RPG's available. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

You just described pretty much every sequel out there (FO2, BG2, IWD2, etc). I guess by your definition NO sequel will ever be as good as the original since it shares some things in common with it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

No, that's not my point. Because it was a sequal to a great game it was so good. K1 was basically a new thing, K2 wasn't.

 

To disprove your point: I thought Diablo II was better than Diablo. Ha.

[GhostofAnakin]

No, that's not my point.  Because it was a sequal to a great game it was so good.  K1 was basically a new thing, K2 wasn't. 

 

To disprove your point: I thought Diablo II was better than Diablo.  Ha. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

But using your theory (as messed up as it is), the ONLY reason Diablo II was good was because it copied Diablo. If you took away all the components Diablo II shared with its predesessor, it didn't add a whole bunch.

 

Which is a pretty lame reasoning, but that seems to be the one you're using for TSL. It sucked because it used some of K1's good points, while only adding a few of its own.

 

Yeah, that makes sense.

[Master_Vrook]

Mothman is awesome. Don't smite me.

[Dark Moth]

@GOA: I'm merely trying to say that I felt K2 felt too much like K1 to really stand on it's own. Diablo II, while similar, added a ton of things to the game. Have you played both of them? Because the D2 added a ton of things to the original and many things were radically different. Besides, JE wasn't a sequal, yet it still was good.

 

Then there's the amount of things worse in K2: glitches/bugs, loading screens, lack of a good ending, etc. I don't think they improved enough on the game for it to really stand on its own. But that's my opinion, now isn't it?

 

EDIT: It's okay, Vrook. I'm calm, now. The flaming has been removed. But I apologize if I seemed like I was "smiting" you. :"> The comments in my post are now removed, since I think I over-reacted a little. I was just a little ticked at the comment you made. So sorry if I sounded too harsh, there.

[Masta Revan]

I thought OE did a pretty good job except for the ending and I hope they really do learn from there mistakes. Congrats OE!

[SteveThaiBinh]

Obsidian don't seem to be too enthused by their victory. You'd think it would be plastered across the home page, but no.

 

As we're not discussing the game in detail, this probably belongs in the General Discussion forum.

[GhostofAnakin]

@GOA:  I'm merely trying to say that I felt K2 felt too much like K1 to really stand on it's own.  Diablo II, while similar, added a ton of things to the game.  Have you played both of them?  Because the D2 added a ton of things to the original and many things were radically different.  Besides, JE wasn't a sequal, yet it still was good. 

 

Then there's the amount of things worse in K2:  glitches/bugs, loading screens, lack of a good ending, etc.  I don't think they improved enough on the game for it to really stand on its own.  But that's my opinion, now isn't it? 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

But that's just my point. You disregard that K2 had a bunch of new features, such as Influence, more Force powers, more use of skills, prestige classes, the addition of gender-based NPC party members, the addition of alignment-based NPC party members, deeper NPC party members, 5 of the 7 planets were new, etc.

 

Had K2 had none of what I listed, instead having a new story and NOTHING else, then I'd agree with you to say that K2 was too much like K1 to stand on its own. But since it took many aspects of K1 and improved upon them, plus adding new features that K1 didn't have, that's enough to make it stand on its own.

 

Sure it's your opinion, and of course you're entitled to it. But it's when you throw in false facts to back up your opinion (ie. trying to say that K2 really didn't add much that K1 didn't already have) is when I take issue. Because like or hate the game, you simply can NOT argue with the above improvements and features that K2 brought to the table.

[Dark Moth]

Yeah, but when you stack all the nice new stuff against the stuff that got worse in the sequal, then I don't think it can stand on it's own. We shouldn't have to sacrifice quality for new stuff. In K2, you had a plotline with many holes, a bad ending, incomplete sidequests, a boat load of glitches, longer loading screens, and even an influence system that wasn't well done according to some people. And some would argue that the characters in K1 were deeper than K2 characters. And if you look at the sheer amount of stuff that was the same: graphics, combat, some animations, ranged combat that still sucked, repeated environments (korriban and dantooine), others, then a lot of it did feel like K1. Even the basic line of the plot felt similar: start off on a planet, you're forced to go to another planet after that, then you're given your main quest to find 4 things (Star Maps/Jedi Masters), then face the bad guys in a final showdown.

 

That is why I say they didn't improve enough on the game in the first place. But that doesn't mean I think a sequal should never win an award. I try to look at the games objectively, and when I compared K2 to JE, I thought JE was more deserving in the fact that it was a new idea, a complete game, and I thought a good RPG. Now, if JE wasn't so good and every other RPG was crap, then yes I would have said K2 should have won, simply for lack of competition. But then, does that still mean they truly earn it?

[GhostofAnakin]

Yeah, but when you stack all the nice new stuff against the stuff that got worse in the sequal,  then I don't think it can stand on it's own.  We shouldn't have to sacrifice quality for new stuff.  In K2, you had a plotline with many holes, a bad ending, incomplete sidequests, a boat load of glitches, longer loading screens, and even an influence system that wasn't well done according to some people.  And some would argue that the characters in K1 were deeper than K2 characters.  And if you look at the sheer amount of stuff that was the same: graphics, combat, some animations, ranged combat still sucked, and others, then a lot of it did feel like K1. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Bad ending? Agreed.

 

Plotline had many plotholes? Disagreed. It had some. If you can point out what you believe to be plotholes, you'd better list off quite a few since you insist the word "many". So if you name one or two, this proves yet again you exaggerate.

 

Incomplete sidequests? As far as I can remember, there were two. The fuel thing and the two bounty hunters on the surface of Telos. Oh and the Jedi redemption on Dantooine. None of which had a MAJOR effect on the overall game.

 

boatload of glitches? Again, define "boatload". In my play through I ran in to ZERO glitches. Zero. That's not to say they don't exist, but again you use words like "many" and "boatload" so I'd like to hear some examples. And again I'd hope you give enough examples to justify an exaggeration term like boatload. In other words, your list better take up half the page otherwise that's another exaggeration on your part.

 

Longer Loading screens? Debateable. I didn't notice a difference. But even if I gave you this one, who cares? You're comparing the game to JE for Game of the Year, don't forget, so even IF K2 had longer load screens than K1, that's irrelevant since JE had even longer by a MILE loading screens, especially in that arena portion when you had to sit through half a minute long load screens after every fight.

 

Influence not working right? Wrong. It works as Obsidian intended. It's not Obsidian's fault that some people thought it would work a different way. But regardless, this one is subjective and thus can't be used as "proof" one way or another.

 

K1 has deeper NPC party members? Really? How? Kreia was the deepest character, outside of the PC, in EITHER game. Mandalore, HK and T3 were the same character, thus their backstories are the same in both. Atton was MUCH more fleshed out that Carth. Visas was more interesting than Juhani. Hanharr was much more fleshed out that Zaalbar. The only interesting party members in K1 were Jolee and Bastila.

[BattleCookiee]

boatload of glitches?  Again, define "boatload".  In my play through I ran in to ZERO glitches.  Zero.  That's not to say they don't exist, but again you use words like "many" and "boatload" so I'd like to hear some examples.  And again I'd hope you give enough examples to justify an exaggeration term like boatload.  In other words, your list better take up half the page otherwise that's another exaggeration on your part.

 

http://forums.obsidianent.com/index.php?sh...ndpost&p=329328

 

(Must be atleast 5 pages if you mean a screen full for "page")

[Dark Moth]

Yeah, but when you stack all the nice new stuff against the stuff that got worse in the sequal,  then I don't think it can stand on it's own.  We shouldn't have to sacrifice quality for new stuff.  In K2, you had a plotline with many holes, a bad ending, incomplete sidequests, a boat load of glitches, longer loading screens, and even an influence system that wasn't well done according to some people.  And some would argue that the characters in K1 were deeper than K2 characters.  And if you look at the sheer amount of stuff that was the same: graphics, combat, some animations, ranged combat still sucked, and others, then a lot of it did feel like K1. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Bad ending? Agreed.

 

Plotline had many plotholes? Disagreed. It had some. If you can point out what you believe to be plotholes, you'd better list off quite a few since you insist the word "many". So if you name one or two, this proves yet again you exaggerate.

 

Incomplete sidequests? As far as I can remember, there were two. The fuel thing and the two bounty hunters on the surface of Telos. Oh and the Jedi redemption on Dantooine. None of which had a MAJOR effect on the overall game.

 

boatload of glitches? Again, define "boatload". In my play through I ran in to ZERO glitches. Zero. That's not to say they don't exist, but again you use words like "many" and "boatload" so I'd like to hear some examples. And again I'd hope you give enough examples to justify an exaggeration term like boatload. In other words, your list better take up half the page otherwise that's another exaggeration on your part.

 

Longer Loading screens? Debateable. I didn't notice a difference. But even if I gave you this one, who cares? You're comparing the game to JE for Game of the Year, don't forget, so even IF K2 had longer load screens than K1, that's irrelevant since JE had even longer by a MILE loading screens, especially in that arena portion when you had to sit through half a minute long load screens after every fight.

 

Influence not working right? Wrong. It works as Obsidian intended. It's not Obsidian's fault that some people thought it would work a different way. But regardless, this one is subjective and thus can't be used as "proof" one way or another.

 

K1 has deeper NPC party members? Really? How? Kreia was the deepest character, outside of the PC, in EITHER game. Mandalore, HK and T3 were the same character, thus their backstories are the same in both. Atton was MUCH more fleshed out that Carth. Visas was more interesting than Juhani. Hanharr was much more fleshed out that Zaalbar. The only interesting party members in K1 were Jolee and Bastila.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

So far, all examples you're giving are subjective, just like some of mine. Many people think the influence system needed work, and as I said, some people would still argue that the K1 members were deeper. You're now brandishing your opinion as fact. And if you don't believe the amount of glitches in the game, just look at these forums and you'll find them (or Battlwookie's list). Remember the 'amusing glitches' thread? Yeah. And I did happen to look at the loading screens, and K2's were as a whole undoubtedly longer.

 

Just look at the patch that came out for it, and that didn't even correct all the glitches. And you forgot about the Droid sidequest for HK-47, and the shallow romance options which many other peole didn't like, either. You can't deny that there were plotholes, esp. around the ending. And not to mention that many people feel there was a decrease in overall difficulty (even Kreia wasn't that tough, and Nihilus was just a pushover). I stand by what I said.

 

And just because you didn't encounter all those glitches doesn't mean others didn't, which you seem to think. I didn't encounter a lot of glitches either, but after looking at these forums I can tell you that many people encountered several glitches in their gameplay.

[GhostofAnakin]

boatload of glitches?  Again, define "boatload".  In my play through I ran in to ZERO glitches.  Zero.  That's not to say they don't exist, but again you use words like "many" and "boatload" so I'd like to hear some examples.  And again I'd hope you give enough examples to justify an exaggeration term like boatload.  In other words, your list better take up half the page otherwise that's another exaggeration on your part.

 

http://forums.obsidianent.com/index.php?sh...ndpost&p=329328

 

(Must be atleast 5 pages if you mean a screen full for "page")

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Not everyone experienced those.

 

I can go to the K1 forums and check out their tech forum and link more than 5 pages of technical issues people had.

 

When someone says a game has a boatload of glitches I'd expect they are glitches that the vast majority of gamers ran in to, not just some people.