KotoR 3: Ideas and Suggestions

[Gabrielle]

Indeed. Who needs genetic engineering?

[PhantomJedi]

I do believe that this thread has gotten a little out of hand and is literally a dog chasing its tail. But this thread does prove that we are diligent recylcers.

[Plano Skywalker]

the "latest" KOTOR 3 rumor: http://xbox.ign.com/mail/2005-08-30.html

[Musopticon?]

Same old, same old.

 

 

Seriously guys, if K3 is really going to happen it's in the far future for sure. How about minding other games until some real news come out?

[Plano Skywalker]

How about minding other games until some real news come out?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I do...in non-K3 threads

[Musopticon?]

Touch

[2p1k3]

Hello,

 

These are things I would like to see. I understand that LucasArts thinks of KOTOR as an ongoing franchise. So there will undoubtably be more games. Yet I think it is important for LucasArts and such to give the 'creators' of the game the time necessary to fully explore the potential for a game. I thoroughly enjoyed KOTOR I and KOTOR II but KOTOR II seemed as if it was half finished and as such I could have enjoyed it more. I think you guys have a terrific opportunity to redefine the industry again with the game concept of KOTOR III. Here are some of my own personal suggestions.

 

1.) Let Bioware and Obsidian Entertainment work together on this. Give them the time neccessary to fully explore the concept of the game; to maximize the quality of the game.

 

2.) Please have the game be twice to three times longer than either KOTOR I or KOTOR II. To give you an idea of how long I am talking about think of Final Fantasy X-2's length.

 

3.) Redo the graphics engine. The old graphics engine was awesome for KOTOR I but it made KOTOR II seem dated and as if you did not really want to do your best in making it. I

 

4.) Here are some key made-up words I am sure you will understand. Multiple Starting Points; Multiple Converging storyline points; Multiple Endings. All of these I think you should look into and invest in. People 'need' a new huge single player role-playing game that redifines the industry. RPGs now days have a single storyline and multiple subplots but the subplots almost never actually change the original storyline. Also with KOTOR I and KOTOR II it was awesome that you could be evil but the story did not change at all. I think everyone would really want an Evil character to have an almost completely different Storyline even if they end up having to do the same thing the good guys have to do in the end.

[GhostofAnakin]

4.) Here are some key made-up words I am sure you will understand. Multiple Starting Points; Multiple Converging storyline points; Multiple Endings. All of these I think you should look into and invest in. People 'need' a new huge single player role-playing game that redifines the industry. RPGs now days have a single storyline and multiple subplots but the subplots almost never actually change the original storyline. Also with KOTOR I and KOTOR II it was awesome that you could be evil but the story did not change at all. I think everyone would really want an Evil character to have an almost completely different Storyline even if they end up having to do the same thing the good guys have to do in the end.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

That would be almost like developing two different games at one time. It would probably be even more difficult than actually creating two different games since they'd have to make sure that DS choices didn't mess up the LS path and vice versa.

 

It's a good idea, just one that I don't think is very feasible.

[vaxen83]

I am inclined to think of K3 with dual storylines as the basis for that would be almost like the alignment difference reflected between LS and DS in the dialogue content. Multiple might mean having at least three or more options of the story.

 

A game like K3 will have a few shared themes which K1 and K2 had, meaning that incorporating certain things from the first two games positions allows people (especially pro players) who are familiar with the first two to be able to adjust to K3 without having to totally revise their initial interpretations of a KOTOR game. Basically, a balance between the familiar and the unexplored.

 

One thing that would add to K3 would be further refinement of just a few characters from K2 and possibly K1. The whole idea of a mass killing of the Council in K2 was not exactly one that I would consider acceptable. Seems abrupt too. The K2 idea I got was just merely blind killing.

[hawk]

I do not think it a good idea to make more then 2 endings / more starting points etc. This has been argued quiet often here, but the problem is that there is some kind of "game plan" in the kotor series. You also think about lot's of different party members?

It will be quiet some work for the developers to build a lot of storylines. Just look at Kotor II, there are quiet a lot of party members and optional ones. Obsidian didn't get a lot of time and we know how this went. When I think about it, there are a lot more problems with different starting points / party members etc.

Sure, we could make the game a lot bigger and I think that should involve a lot more planets.

I am fortunate that someone else comes up with the idea to play as Revan's son / daughter. If you pick a male character and you choose Revan to be your father it is quiet easy to build Revan's face. The developers will need two voice actors for Revan, but I figure this isn't a big problem.

 

Don't forget to mention, we would like to have customizable lightsaber hilts and a golden crystal for our lightsabers.

[Darth Vossk]

Hey, iv posted a few replys every now and then about KOTOR III, (mostly because they were realy long and, basicly different versions of what i think should be the story line) but iv changed it a bit, and i would like public appinion on it (o and this is just a heads up, incase i miss spell something dont freak out unles you cant read it)

 

Ok so this is a few things i think should be changed,

First off i think that the fact you always start out as some one who has been affiliated with the jedi is getting realy, realy annoying (to me anyways) of course there have been a few games were you turned out to be a great sith lord who lost his power captured by the jedi, then brain washed to be used against the sith. ( KOTOR I) any ways i mean do the developers realize that there are people who dont give a flyin fauck about the jedi? and maby just maby whant more choice in what there character was before you started?!

 

So im sayin that you should be able to choose what your past affiliations were, and you should start out as that person. Of course you would still be able to go dark or light later on if you decided you didnt whant to be what you origanly put, but chances are you would whant to stay as a sith or a jedi. What im mostly doing here is tryng to make KOTOR III (if it is ever made) more like Star Wars Galaxies (but still not the same experience) because then it would'nt be origanle. But i mean isnt a RPG about choice, and how maby these things would affect you in real life if it were real? i mean in KOTOR II sure you could train Atton but would he act like a sith? hell no! he would be plain old Atton annoying and the replacment of Carth. Seriously its not that much to ask for, more realistic game play, and more choices.

 

Second off i guess would be the planets, why in the hell are we limited to like 6, or some small number of planets HELLO! thats about a billion planets off, i mean come on its to much of a following the leader thing. make the game more expansed like i whant to go to Trandosha and help the Trandoshans slave wookies, or i whant to go to Rodia and help the Rodians smuggle spice, or i whant to go to COURESCANT!!! i eman its the most mentioned and gone to planet in the Star Wars galaxie. But then i whant planets no one has ever been to. Once again MORE CHOICE.

 

Alright one thing that makes me pull out my hair in games like these is the conversation choices...i mean this right here just gets me (o and if for some reason the choice i make would affect how the game should play out, like i make some disicon to kill some one who plays a huge roll in the game and that some how sets in mostion events that would normaly not happen) ok this is an example of such things happening, on Duxen KOTOR II you have to choose a party leader for a seperate party that is going to attack the sith temple of Freedon Nad, (i usaly choose Atton) any ways so once i get to the bottome of the place and the Sith are doing there ritual thing they ask me if i would join the dark side? you dont say yes you just ask questions about how much more powerful the DS is then the LS. but at the end he asks you to join him, but you are left with a choice of saying NEVER ILL NEVER TURN TO THE DAKR SIDE, or I DONT SHARE MY POWER, come on if you were alowed to join that could create a whole nother story, (and i would jsut like to point out that Carth, is some times dead in KOTOR II, and sometimes he is alive) this does affect slitely how the game is played, although i dont know how to tell what to do to make him dead. any ways this is a iratating thing ot me and once again CHOICES PEOPLE CHOICES!

 

Ok i ask you have you ever looked at your clothes and said "you know these are so boring clohes they all kinda look the same but they have different names...i wonder if any thing was more origanle, or maby creative...hmm i wonder" well you probaly havent but seriosuly the armor choice in KOTOR I and II is so lame. i mean its all the same thing (maby not color wise but look wise) i mean lets look at other games that are realy origanle Star Wars Galaxies look at the line up of armor clothing, weapons, capes, hats, helmets, ect. I mean is it so hard to get realy creative armor, or maby more peices to it (id go into detail but its like 11:36 here so im kinda tired) but i mean seriosuly come on people step it up, and BE CREATIVE!!!!!!!!

 

Ok to rap it up let me jsut say this would be the most important thing to me DIFFERENT SPECIES! GOD! i cant say it enough i love being human and all but i mean im human every day, i whant to be something else when im in my world. Give me Trandoshans, give me Twei'leks, give me Aqualish, give me Ithorians, give me Zabraks, Iridorians, Gand, Kel-Dor, Gamorean, give me CHOICES!

but iv said enough for now.

 

i could go on but i will later...but i need sleep now, think of what i have said so far and tell me what you think.

 

o hey also im looking for people knowlagble of Star Wars (and i mean realy observant, sees all the things people miss, and is well..."upsest" lets say like me) so make like a small quiz of like all the things of Star Wars you know and send it to me at darkwolfenstein@hotmail.com, i whant my skills to be tested.

 

P.S. i just would ike to say that i do realize that there are many choces in KOTOR but not as many as i would like. i whant it to be more realistis then life. lol if possible :D

[vaxen83]

A reason why the mass killing of the Jedi Council was executed in a manner of inappropriateness is this: SW Episode IV: A New Hope showed Kenobi as being sliced through by Vader's lightsaber and disappeared in an instant. (No sign of being vapourised through with the saber) It is hard to validate the fact that bodies of trained Jedi masters remain even after being force drained by Kreia. And I doubt that, speaking through the nature of the Force, a timespan of four millennia allows for a difference in corpses of Jedi masters decaying like the corpse of an average person. If it was an average force-user like a Jedi apprentice, then normal death without the body disappearing might be ok, but for Jedi masters? Another instance was the corpse of Lonna Vash. Kreia's body not disappearing, after the battle at Malachor is understandable as she is of DS alignment.

[Lamia]

This will be my first post on the topic of KOTOR 3. There is one burning issue for me and the KOTOR series and that is the difficulty. KOTOR 3 must have a difficulty setting that is difficult. For those that enjoy the story line above all else they can adjust to easy. But for those that enjoy both the story line and the action there must be a difficulty setting that is actually difficult.

 

KOTOR 1 was an easy game but KOTOR 2 was shockingly easy. I'm not going to the list the reasons as I believe the vast majority of people on this forum already know why.

 

I'd also like to see the abolishment of the random item system. Not only was this an adventure in cretinism it was also a hideous betrayal of safe game mechanics. Make not the next instalment in this series a playground for moronic think tanks.

[Gabrielle]

K2 was easy compared to the first. I gauge easiness by how many times I have to reload a game after all members are killed. Never had to reload K2, but K1 I had to do it a couple of times.

[Dranoel]

Suggestion 1: Get rid of the stupid lame arsed glow sticks. They suck!

 

Suggestion 2: bring back Bastila (without a lame arsed glow stick - see suggestion 1)

 

Suggestion 3: Make the game much larger with more to explore and make it feel much more epic in scale rather than four or five formulaic planets as in the last one.

 

Suggestion 4: Replace the character advancement system to make it far more customisable. (look at current mmorpgs for ideas perhaps)

 

Suggestion 5: Consider leasing the new unreal 3 engine (is it no.3?) and making a hell of a fast paced shooter with lots of vehicles weapons etc. (check against things like Half Life 2 and V:TMB for reference about what to do and what not to do!)

 

Suggestion 6: Make the storyline less predictable more varied etc.

 

Suggestion 7: Replace the music - it is old, outdated and frankly a relic of the seventies.

 

Suggestion 8: Stop wearing flares! Disco is out and it is not the time to go for Brian May style floppy hair!

 

Suggestion 9: Get a far more flexible time frame and schedule for this one! The last one was rushed and felt very incomplete. The good projects often have to extend development time to fit everything in.

[hawk]

About the idea's of Darth Vossk. You want a game to be very flexible, correct. I don't like this idea since it will hamper the storyline in this game. The Kotor games we so far have seen are like movies with lot's of choices how you wish this movie to be.

Because they are Star Wars games with Jedi / Sith (the knights of the old republic) being the main characters it will come down to a choice whether you follow the light or the dark path.

And I believe it's better to keep the "game system" the way it is rather then make it a game which is very flexible.

Don't forget both games where and are one of best RPG's ever made.

 

About Dranoels suggestions. All very well except for Suggestion 5. Okay, you can maybe make a fast paced shooter with vehicles in a mini game but it shouldn't be the main system to work with.

I have read a review stating that Kotor is all about walking, talking and fighting. Not driving / flying and blasting things to pieces.

[SamuraiGaijin]

Most of the recent ideas (Dranoel's and Darth Vossk's) leave me a bit non-plussed.

 

I like the KOTOR formula ... but think it could be improved ...

- I think you should start the game as a better-than-average Padawan, with little or no previous contact to the Exile or Revan, and then be placed in a situation where you end up saving (or conquering) the galaxy.

- Race should be selectable.

- The setting for KOTOR will continue to focus around Jedi/Sith and lightsabers ... get over it (or play another game).

- The game system is fine (and actually preferred for old-timers like me who don't want to learn another damn ruleset ... I grew up playing D&D, and while I haven't made the complete shift to d20, I have played the PnP version a couple of times, and it works) - there just needs to be more depth (i.e.: more than three levels of feats and powers) to the advancement, if you're going to go beyond 20th level.

- It's not a FPS, not a simulation, and not a strategy game ... if you want that, play something else.

- I agree that there should be more choices ... Light, Dark, and Grey ... more planets to visit (I'm thinking at least ten in the mid game, with at least six pieces to the main quest that can be found on more than one of the planets) ... better dialog choices.

- The supporting cast must be meaningful - I want to care about the people I'm forced to travel with.

- The story must (1) make sense (I spent over half of my first run through KOTOR II trying to figure out what the plot was), (2) make me care about it, and (3) have diversity and choice in the possible endings.

 

I get the feeling that the KOTOR story is ultimately about Revan, but honestly could care less if he/she makes an appearance, or is even a secondary focus to the next plot line. If I want to care about Revan again, I'll play KOTOR I or read some fanfic. If Revan does become a key figure in the plot, it should be as an NPC, and not until the latter part of the game.

 

I wish the music was full-quality 3d, but the SW-themed music of the games is good. It helps me believe that we're in the SW universe. Star Wars was, by the way, the FIRST movie ever with a music soundtrack throughout the movie - the music belongs in the game.

 

As far as the KOTOR fashion goes - I'd just be happy with some cool-looking (i.e.: not purple, red, orange, etc.) armor and maybe an actual helmet (instead of just a visor, sunglasses, or headband).

[hawk]

Most of the recent ideas (Dranoel's and Darth Vossk's) leave me a bit non-plussed.

 

I like the KOTOR formula ... but think it could be improved ...

- I think you should start the game as a better-than-average Padawan, with little or no previous contact to the Exile or Revan, and then be placed in a situation where you end up saving (or conquering) the galaxy.

- Race should be selectable.

- The setting for KOTOR will continue to focus around Jedi/Sith and lightsabers ... get over it (or play another game).

- The game system is fine (and actually preferred for old-timers like me who don't want to learn another damn ruleset ... I grew up playing D&D, and while I haven't made the complete shift to d20, I have played the PnP version a couple of times, and it works) - there just needs to be more depth (i.e.: more than three levels of feats and powers) to the advancement, if you're going to go beyond 20th level.

- It's not a FPS, not a simulation, and not a strategy game ... if you want that, play something else.

- I agree that there should be more choices ... Light, Dark, and Grey ... more planets to visit (I'm thinking at least ten in the mid game, with at least six pieces to the main quest that can be found on more than one of the planets) ... better dialog choices.

- The supporting cast must be meaningful - I want to care about the people I'm forced to travel with.

- The story must (1) make sense (I spent over half of my first run through KOTOR II trying to figure out what the plot was), (2) make me care about it, and (3) have diversity and choice in the possible endings.

 

I get the feeling that the KOTOR story is ultimately about Revan, but honestly could care less if he/she makes an appearance, or is even a secondary focus to the next plot line.  If I want to care about Revan again, I'll play KOTOR I or read some fanfic.  If Revan does become a key figure in the plot, it should be as an NPC, and not until the latter part of the game.

 

I wish the music was full-quality 3d, but the SW-themed music of the games is good.  It helps me believe that we're in the SW universe.  Star Wars was, by the way, the FIRST movie ever with a music soundtrack throughout the movie - the music belongs in the game.

 

As far as the KOTOR fashion goes - I'd just be happy with some cool-looking (i.e.: not purple, red, orange, etc.) armor and maybe an actual helmet (instead of just a visor, sunglasses, or headband).

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

These suggestions are IMO the best suggestions on this page.

[Dranoel]

About Dranoels suggestions. All very well except for Suggestion 5. Okay, you can maybe make a fast paced shooter with vehicles in a mini game but it shouldn't be the main system to work with.

I have read a review stating that Kotor is all about walking, talking and fighting. Not driving / flying and blasting things to pieces.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

You have never played V:TMB I take it. It uses the Source engine and is a very atmospheric (on the whole) rpg interrupted with what it hoped was going a dynamic combat system. In short combat sucks but it looks a hell of a lot better than KoTOR1&2, the rpg elements have much greater depth and it remains a monument to what could have been.

 

The action in starwars films ahs always tended towards fast paced chaotic action, something inconsistent with the KoTOR games.

 

Furthermore all the Jedi are dead at the end of KoTOR2 except the Exile and possibly Hanky (atton), Spanky (disciple) and the rest of the gang and there is no reason to believe they would have been trained at all either. Therefore a game that doesn't revolve around gay arsed light sticks is probably more plausible than one that does. Jedi have died out - get over it!

[Musopticon?]

Don't bother. I tried with your approach a few months back, but most of the fans were more interested in making a The Best Jedi, instead of having a good SW-game.

[vaxen83]

The theme of a Jedi Master's corpse disappearing away into nothingness did not have to be shown in K1 as the story did not need such effects to be integrated into any deaths of the Jedi masters. (Dantooine was razed by Malak only in terms of dialogue with Saul Karath with the PC on the Leviathan) The part of the K2 story where the race of Miralukas on Katarr was wiped out with several Jedi members of the gathering there is questionable as its actual occurrence is not really made clear.

 

The only thing I would say is that force users would inevitably be both Jedi characters/masters and Sith apprentices/lords.

 

Not too sure why the effect of integrating characters that were killed off into visions was not adopted by OE in the production of K2. This idea was actually attempted by Bioware in the movies of the Star Maps as visions of the PC as Revan. Besides, visions are in some way related to the force, as only Luke was able to see visions of Obi-Wan Kenobi and Yoda towards the end of ROTJ.

 

Vision of Obi-Wan Kenobi in ROTJ while speaking with Luke on Dagobah:

 

[GhostofAnakin]

Suggestion 1: Get rid of the stupid lame arsed glow sticks. They suck!

 

Suggestion 5: Consider leasing the new unreal 3 engine (is it no.3?) and making a hell of a fast paced shooter with lots of vehicles weapons etc. (check against things like Half Life 2 and V:TMB for reference about what to do and what not to do!)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

No and no.

[Bulgarian Jedi]

I want to say is that K3 REALLY needs most is good storyline and good characters. Technical things like the graphics, hooded robes, lightsaber hilts ,and etc. shoud not be that important.

 

I have read trough all 49 pages of the thread and now I have quite a good opinion what K3 should/shoudn't have.

 

-----== Technical and Gameplay Issues==-----

 

O.k., let us check the technical details first. In the beggining of the thread was the idea for loosing limbs during combat. Although it could make the game more realistic, I seriously doubt it will fit in the gameplay and I think it is rather pointless. Then it was the graphics question. Well, it is not the graphics that makes a RPG game like KotOR good. The Oddisey engine fitts the game good enough and I do not want another. Some of you suggested FPS( first person shooter) engines, but they are not going to improve the game much. It will take a lot of time. I think the best sollution is to inprove the current engine or leave it as it is.

 

There were requests for better item storage and journal systems. I know that carying 40+ armors, weapons, medpacks, etc. is not realistic, but I don't give a damn(sorry about this word) about it and nor should you. It is just an unnecessary concern. The journal system, on the other hand, NEEDS to be improved. I won't go into detail here.

 

Someone gave the suggestion for getting rid of the current classes, and have an padawan-->knight-->master system so the game could be more Star Wars-like. Remember, it's a RPG game we are talking about. Second, don't worry that much about that. It is fiction after all. Third, this classes Guardian, Sentinel, Consular are TRUE( there is also a fourth class called Healer). They were not created from the game developers. The same goes for the Prestige Classes. The class system is good as it is(although they could add the Healer).

 

Well, this is all I can remember now. I have to go now. Next time I will share my story and character ideas with you.

 

TO BE CONTINUED.....................

[Krookie]

Suggestion 1: Get rid of the stupid lame arsed glow sticks. They suck!

 

Suggestion 5: Consider leasing the new unreal 3 engine (is it no.3?) and making a hell of a fast paced shooter with lots of vehicles weapons etc. (check against things like Half Life 2 and V:TMB for reference about what to do and what not to do!)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

No and no.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Agreed GoA.

[Plano Skywalker]

while I like the idea of a rank progression:

Recruit>>Padawan>>Knight>>Master

 

this is really more a reward system for whatever faction you are serving more than class leveling. as long as we are playing pregens who are essentially working outside the system, I doubt we will see this kind of progression.

 

I'm hoping K4 (if there is one) will have a more straight-up, self contained story with clear-cut faction advancement. I'm not expecting that in K3.