The beginning of KotOR2

[Jediphile]

While we all discuss the ending of K2, I still find that there are several things that aren't explained at the beginning of the game. They have been discussed before, but I never felt there were any good answers to them.

 

Now, I know that the Exile is exposed as the last jedi, which is why the Sith and the Exchange is hunting for him, but...

 

1. Why is the Exile returning to the Republic? Clearly he is not being forced and has booked passage on the Harbinger voluntarily. A decade ago he left the jedi order and chose exile in the outer regions. Why is he coming back? He may be a pawn of a greater game, but he doesn't know that at the beginning of the game, so why did he choose to return?

 

2. Where did Kreia come from? She is unconscious, persumed dead, on the floor of the Ebon Hawk after it fled the Harbinger, but how did she get there?

 

There is nothing to suggest she was a passenger on the Harbinger, in which case she might have been on the Sith warship or the Ebon Hawk. Given her ties to the Sith, you might assume that she was on the Sith warship, except that would have placed her together with Sion after she was cast out by Sion and Nihilus.

 

And there is one clue that she might have been on the Ebon Hawk to begin with - during the prolugue T3 can find the locker key on her body. How would she have that if she was not one of the crew? But if she was part of the crew, does that mean she went to the unknown regions with Revan and then returned with T3? I doubt that, but then how does she get on board?

 

3. Who are all those people dead on the Ebon Hawk? There are bodies everywhere during the prologue, but they're never explained. Are they dead Sith invaders? They don't look much like it to me...

[Calax]

about q 2. Kreia was aboard the Ebon Hawk and ended up getting attacked by Sion while trying to reach the Exile. It ended up the Harbinger came in and found it floating about and tried to save her, and figure out exactly what happened to the "deserted" sith war ship near by (if this was a covert war, why were the sith using warships still?) the Sion wakes the Harbinger goes boom thanks to HK and you get whisked away by HK and T3 aboard the Ebon Hawk as a life boat.

I'm guessing the body's on board were those of the crew of the Harbinger trying to flee the ship. Then the Hawk got fire upon again and lost pressurization to certain portions and allowed the emittion of deadly gasses from the coolant system which, because you were in a coma at the time, didn't effect you as much but killed the Harbingers crewers trying to escape. Kreia went into her little healing trance/dead body impression and T3 with help from the computer, purged the system and promptly saves your life.

 

I have no clue as to why Exile is returning. I have even less of a clue as to why he's going to Telos.

[Jediphile]

Good points. I guess the Exile is going to Telos because once he was on the Harbinger, it really wasn't his choice anymore. It's the part about why he was going back to the Republic at all that bugs me...

 

Good points about Kreia. It may be that since Revan came to see her before going to the unknown regions, she found out about Bastila's secret orders to T3 (which appears both in DS and LS with slight differences), or maybe even Revan found out about it and told Kreia.

 

When the information about the Exile was then leaked, making the Sith and the Exchange aware of his existence, Kreia might have come seeking for him to prevent him from being captured by either side. Maybe Revan even asked her to, and it's even possible that she planned her whole vengeance against the Force at that point - it seems Revan was far more aware of the Exile's condition and significance to the Force than the Exile was.

 

If Kreia knew of Bastila's message, she might also have looked for the Ebon Hawk, knowing full well that T3 would be looking for the Exile.

 

I wonder when HK-47 was damaged, though... He seems to have lost all memory of the events of K1, except for his - ahem - dismissive comments about certain crewmembers of the Ebon Hawk... " :D

[BattleCookiee]

Just some additional notes:

 

1. If you listen to the Harbinger records, they actually said they were planning for Onderon, but broke off to Telos for the exile (Atleast that's what I remember)???

 

2. If female, the message comes from Admiral Onassi...

 

3. HK has been shot up by Revan. He tells you himself with enough influence...

[Calax]

I havent' found the shot up ref and I really dont' want to start a 9th game... so I'll take your word for it o moderator man

[Jediphile]

Just some additional notes:

 

1. If you listen to the Harbinger records, they actually said they were planning for Onderon, but broke off to Telos for the exile (Atleast that's what I remember)???

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Yes, but that was because they were ordered to change course to Telos by the Admiral (whether it's Onasi or Cede), not because the Exile wanted to go there.

 

3. HK has been shot up by Revan. He tells you himself with enough influence...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

You sure about that? I've gotten pretty high influence with HK-47 and gained the bonus from learning how to kill jedi, and I never heard anything like that...

[Calax]

I used Kse to up it to full and never found it

[mrchallenge]

Remember when Sion broke out of the bacta tank? How does that fit in? Was he on board the ebon hawk along with kreia and they both feigned dead or what?

[RevanRedefined]

Remember when Sion broke out of the bacta tank? How does that fit in? Was he on board the ebon hawk along with kreia and they both feigned dead or what?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Sion was aboard the Sith Vessel that the Harbinger found and searched. Sion presumed unconscious and the sith assassins snuck on unnoticed. If you read some of the records on the Harbinger it explains it, I think some in the medical ones and on the bridge.

[Heckur]

2. Where did Kreia come from? She is unconscious, persumed dead, on the floor of the Ebon Hawk after it fled the Harbinger, but how did she get there?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Kreia was following the Harbinger with the Ebon Hawk, because she knew the Exile was on board of the Harbinger. She sent a distress signal when she was attacked by a Sith warship. Perhaps she was using the situation to lure to Harbinger to the Ebon Hawk.

 

When the Harbinger crew boarded the Ebon Hawk, they found no-one alive, according to the Harbinger's logs. Perhaps the other crew members of the Hawk were killed by the Sith warship encounter (I don't remember them wearing Republic uniforms, so I don't think the bodies T3 finds in the prolog are fled soldiers, as suggested by another poster). But Kreia has Force Stealth and was able to board the Harbinger unseen. She tells you, when fleeing Peragus, that she was able to trace your thoughts, although your were unconsious. During this rescue operation, the HK-50 droid was busy cripling the Harbinger, so its crew was distracted.

 

After Kreia had somehow move you to the Ebon Hawk, the Hawk seperates from the Harbinger and starts flying away. Moments before the jump to hyperspace, the Harbinger, taken over by the Sith, fires a shot a the Hawk and nearly destroys it.

 

Then the prolog starts....

 

I still have no idea why and how Kreia was on the Hawk in the first place.

 

3. Who are all those people dead on the Ebon Hawk? There are bodies everywhere during the prologue, but they're never explained. Are they dead Sith invaders? They don't look much like it to me...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I think they are dead crew members of the Hawk, killed by the Sith warship encounter. Kreia is no pilot and I don't think she has enough convidence in T3 to use him as pilot.

[BattleCookiee]

Remember when Sion broke out of the bacta tank? How does that fit in? Was he on board the ebon hawk along with kreia and they both feigned dead or what?

 

Sion was the only member on the sith Warship (well, he wasn't...but the only the Republic Soldiers could see), if I remember. They probably assumed the guy was dead due to his high amount of fractures.

 

Kreia was following the Harbinger with the Ebon Hawk, because she knew the Exile was on board of the Harbinger. She sent a distress signal when she was attacked by a Sith warship. Perhaps she was using the situation to lure to Harbinger to the Ebon Hawk.

 

When the Harbinger crew boarded the Ebon Hawk, they found no-one alive, according to the Harbinger's logs. Perhaps the other crew members of the Hawk were killed by the Sith warship encounter (I don't remember them wearing Republic uniforms, so I don't think the bodies T3 finds in the prolog are fled soldiers, as suggested by another poster). But Kreia has Force Stealth and was able to board the Harbinger unseen. She tells you, when fleeing Peragus, that she was able to trace your thoughts, although your were unconsious. During this rescue operation, the HK-50 droid was busy cripling the Harbinger, so its crew was distracted.

 

After Kreia had somehow move you to the Ebon Hawk, the Hawk seperates from the Harbinger and starts flying away. Moments before the jump to hyperspace, the Harbinger, taken over by the Sith, fires a shot a the Hawk and nearly destroys it.

 

Then the prolog starts....

 

I still have no idea why and how Kreia was on the Hawk in the first place.

 

Nice theorie; but here are some notes about it:

1) Most likely Kreia didn't use Stealth, but "played dead", like in the Tutorial and Peragus

2) HK-50 confirms that he drugged you unconscious (with a large amount of Juma Juice) and brought you from the Harbinger to the Ebon Hawk

3) The damage from the Ebon Hawk was likely from the Sith Warship, or caused before, since it was already damaged when pulled to the Harbinger (could be wrong here)

 

I think they are dead crew members of the Hawk, killed by the Sith warship encounter. Kreia is no pilot and I don't think she has enough convidence in T3 to use him as pilot.

 

Most likely they were the crew from the Ebon Hawk after Revan left, and possibly killed by Kreia herself...

[Heckur]

Nice theorie; but here are some notes about it:

1) Most likely Kreia didn't use Stealth, but "played dead", like in the Tutorial and Peragus

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That's also a possibility, but Kreia tells you that she was able to trace your thoughts and locate you in the sealed compartment on the Harbinger. That suggests to me that she did actually move you from the Harbinger to the Hawk. See also the next point.

2) HK-50 confirms that he drugged you unconscious (with a large amount of Juma Juice) and brought you from the Harbinger to the Ebon Hawk

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I find that unlikely. Agreed, HK drugs you (with a delayed sedative, according to the medical terminal's log) and locks you in a sealed compartment. But then he starts to cripple the Harbinger to interrupt it's hyperspace flight and wait for outside (Exchange?) help. He tells you so on Peragus. He also tells you there, that the arrival of the Ebon Hawk caused him major distress. So why would he transport you to the Ebon Hawk? It would be more logical to just wait for the requested help.

 

Also, on Peragus he tells you that he was able to sneak on the Ebon Hawk just moments before the Hawk leaves the Harbinger. I still believe Kreia is the one who rescues you.

3) The damage from the Ebon Hawk was likely from the Sith Warship, or caused before, since it was already damaged when pulled to the Harbinger (could be wrong here)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The Hawk was probably already damaged by the Sith warship when pulled to the Harbinger, but it's hyperdrive was still undamaged. Kreia tells you that the Ebon Hawk was fired upon moments before the hyperspace jump. The shot hits the Hawk when it jumps and the damage is severe enough to destroy the hyperdrive moments later.

 

Later, on Peragus, you see the Harbinger entering the asteroid field, coming out of hyperspace. So the distance between Peragus and the Harbinger/Hawk encounter was large enough to justify a hyperspace jump.

[BattleCookiee]

2) HK-50 confirms that he drugged you unconscious (with a large amount of Juma Juice) and brought you from the Harbinger to the Ebon Hawk

I find that unlikely

 

He tells you when you talk to him on Peragus...

He seduced the exile, locked him up in the Ebon Hawk...

 

And why he fled? Because the Sith also wanted to have you, but HK didn't want to hand the Exile over to the Sith, but to his Exchange bosses...

[Heckur]

2) HK-50 confirms that he drugged you unconscious (with a large amount of Juma Juice) and brought you from the Harbinger to the Ebon Hawk

I find that unlikely

 

He tells you when you talk to him on Peragus...

He seduced the exile, locked him up in the Ebon Hawk...

 

And why he fled? Because the Sith also wanted to have you, but HK didn't want to hand the Exile over to the Sith, but to his Exchange bosses...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

So it all comes down to who you believe more...

- A unreliable murdering protocol doid who tells you he brought you to the Hawk;

- Or a manipulative ex-Jedi/Sith, who tells you that "We were able to rescue you and bring you to the Ebon Hawk", in the dialog on the Hawk when fleeing from Peragus.

 

I guess both scenarios are possible, but for neither there's hard evidence.

[Calax]

Well I never saw the Ebon hawk causing distress convo so I can't be sure it's real. Considering that when the Harbinger picked the Hawk up everyone on board was "dead" I would guess that HK decided to make his move because he was capable of piloting, and he had a perfectly usable ship. so he drags Exile from his little cubby puts him on the Hawk but several other crewers get the same Idea (remember the Harbinger was experiancing a Cascade failure in it's drive systems for all they knew they were going to die) so they pile aboard with Kreia's dead body not being moved. then the thing takes off the "protocol" droid gets locked in a storage unit, you get put on a Med Bed, the Harbinger fires on you, and everybody dies. then Prologue begins. I'm just running by the seat of my pants based on what I remember from the game. Feel free to pick it apart.

[BattleCookiee]

1) Sorry,

Kreia did indeed saved your life. I re-listened to HK's convo and this is said:

 

He locks you up in the Cargo Hold of the Harbinger, while the ship gets "sabotaged"

Then the Ebon Hawk docks and breaches the Cargo Hold, before leaving

HK-50 got on the Ebon Hawk before it flew off...

Additional EDIT: Probably the times I played Kotor2 I assumed his "Drugged with Juma Juice and stuffed in the Cargo Hold" was based on EH's Cargo Hold, since he doesn't say which ships cargo hold. But the Ebon Hawk breached thereafter makes certain that wasn't the case :">

 

And about HK being blown up by Revan:

 

"What of them?"

"Statement: (sigh) Master, that is a question that has a extremely complicated answer"

"You see, I do not believe my master knew who he was most of the time, which led to some confusing situations that could have otherwise been avoided"

"Clarification: Suffice to say had his ups and down, and in my opinion travelled from a high point in his life to a low point, and then back again to a his true potentional"

"He developed qualities such as mercy, compassion and even love for others, it was really rather revolting"

"Still, my master had some remarkable efficient droid-like qualities which I admired. He, too, suffered memory problems, as I did"

"Statement: Oh, yes master, as indicated upon my re-assembly my central control cluster is damaged, making recalling my previous stored assasination protocols difficult"

"I hope, that over time I shall eventually reach the status and skill I once possesed before I was damaged"

"Recollection: The last thing I remember is having my core wiped from the last 5 years, I believe my master was responsable"

"Answer: Even with my memory imperment (spel?) I recall that my master was about to embarge on a dangerous journey"

"Conjecture: I believe there was something about my masters destination that he did not wish me to know"

"Answer: I am somewhat dissapointment that my master did not choose to take me along, ofcourse, where-ever my master traveled destruction and death were assured"

"Speculation: But I suspect I wasn't the only one left behind, so there is some statisfaction that the disrespect was spread through the rest of his whiny, simpering (spel?) meatbag allies"

 

There is more, but this should be enough...

[Heckur]

After the previous posts, I was no longer sure about what exactly happened on the Harbinger, so I looked up some dialog fragments.

 

When the Exile first meets the Hk-50 droid on Peragus:

[Exile] - But how did I get from the Harbinger to here?

 

[HK-50] - Recitation: Following the unusual set of coincidences that led to the cascade failure in the Harbinger's systems, we were boarded by a small freighter with unknown ID codes.

 

[HK-50] - It appeared that this freighter had been attacked, and the captain wanted to study it. This freighter appeared to still be spaceworthy.

 

[HK-50] - Your cargo compartment was breached, and you were taken on board the freighter shortly before the Harbinger's systems began to go critical.

 

[HK-50] - I, too, managed to board the freighter before the Harbinger's destruction. We were most fortunate to have survived, master.

 

Just before the fight with HK-50:

[Exile] - You found me. Obviously I didn't do a good job.

 

[HK-50] - Admission: It was a matter of chance, Master. I happened to be serving as a protocol droid on the Harbinger when you booked passage. After that, it was a simple matter to sabotage the Harbinger and call for a retrieval.

 

[HK-50] - Irritated Statement: However, when the Ebon Hawk appeared and salvaged us from the wreckage, I was forced into a series of rapid recalculations, culminating in our current situation.

 

On board the Ebon Hawk, after fleeing Peragus:

[Exile] - How did you know I was on board the Harbinger?

 

[Kreia] - You were difficult to find, but... coincidence was on our side. When I learned that you were on the vessel, I knew the Sith would not be far behind.

 

[Kreia] - When we intercepted the Harbinger, it was crippled, drifting in space. It was a simple matter to board the vessel and rescue you.

 

[Kreia] - {Sighs}Unknown to me, however, the Sith were already on board. Just as we made the jump to hyperspace, they fired upon us, nearly destroying the Ebon Hawk.

 

[Exile] - How come I don't remember any of this?

 

[Kreia] - Whatever occurred on board the Harbinger had rendered you unconscious. Though your thoughts were faint, I was still able to find you... sealed in one of the cargo holds.

[Jediphile]

"Recollection: The last thing I remember is having my core wiped from the last 5 years, I believe my master was responsable"

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I've actually heard that conversation from HK-47, this the above part I had forgotten. Thanks for pointing it out. Seems Revan did indeed sabotage HK-47 on purpose, which also serves to explain why he is damaged in the cargo hold of the Ebon Hawk.

 

As for Kreia's statement that the Ebon Hawk boarded the Harbinger and retrieved the Exile, I consider her comments to be something less than truthful given what the captain of the Harbinger notes in his log:

 

Crewman: "Everyone on the Ebon Hawk was dead, sir... we're starting autopsies within the hour."

 

Captain: "What about that Sith corpse we retrieved from the warship?

 

Crewman: "'We haven't had a chance to fully examine it, sir - he looks human, but he's... fractured in several places.'

 

Captain: "Keep me posted. Something's wrong here, and I want to know where all those Sith on the warship went."

 

 

Another log tells us:

 

Captain: "Report."

 

Crewman: 'The Sith warship is empty, sir - we attached a umbilical and sent three strike teams through it, and there's no sign of a crew... or its commander.'

 

Captain: "There's no one on board? What about the escape pods?"

 

Crewman: "They're still in their berths, sir - this place, it's empty - it's like a ghost ship."

 

Captain: "Then who was firing at the freighter?"

 

Crewman: "We don't know, sir - the freighter's empty, too, we did a clean sweep, and nothing except a lone T3 unit, badly damaged. Did you still want it tractor beamed to the Harbinger?"

 

Captain: "Search the freighter and the warship one more time - if they're clean, then we'll tractor the freighter over."

 

Crewman: "Yes, sir."

 

Captain: {To himself, a little quieter}"No idea why the admiral thought that freighter worth all the effort, but we'll find out."

 

 

Now, from this it is quite clear that there was a battle between the Ebon Hawk and Sion's Sith warship, that the Ebon Hawk was damaged, and that the Harbinger arrived just in time to interrupt the battle before the Sith could capture, destroy or board the Ebon Hawk.

 

Now, the Harbinger is a pretty heavily armed ship, I think. If you look at the end battle of K1, you'll see that the Harbinger is the same class of ship that the Republic uses as capital ships during the battle to destroy the Star Forge (same type of ship that Dodonna and Vandar were on). That being the case, the Sith warship probably found itself outgunned, so instead they activated their stealth units and infiltrated the Harbinger. Besides, they were here for the "last Jedi" too and probably always intended to lure the Harbinger into a trap. When the Ebon Hawk showed up, however, they had to remove the "competition". Note that the Harbinger received a distress call from the Ebon Hawk being under attack, which doesn't fit with what Kreia tells the Exile.

[Heckur]

While both the Sith and Kreia were looking for the Exile, Kreia had an advantage on the Sith: she could locate the Exile by sensing his/her thoughts. The Sith however were at that time not able to sense the Exile, because he/she was weak in the Force. And since the Exile was locked in a sealed compartment, stealth Sith units had a problem opening it unseen, to check for the Exile. So although they were perhaps on board the Harbinger earlier than Kreia, they couldn't locate the Exile earlier.

 

And besides being able to use stealth, Kreia has another advantage on Sith: she can make herself undetectable for other Force users. Something she clearly demostrates in cut-scenes with the Disciple. Maybe she used this to bring the Exile to the Ebon Hawk unseen.

 

Although HK-50 knows where the Exile is, he has no option to bring the Exile to the Ebon Hawk without being seen, because at that time the Harbinger is swarmed by Sith units.

 

Put on top of that, that both Kreia and HK-50 tell the Exile that Kreia boarded the Harbinger and rescued him/her, I have no doubt that it has indeed happened like that.

[Jediphile]

Put on top of that, that both Kreia and HK-50 tell the Exile that Kreia boarded the Harbinger and rescued him/her, I have no doubt that it has indeed happened like that.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Agreed, but it's the way Kreia puts it after the escape, as you mentioned above, from Peragus that I question.

 

Kreia: "You were difficult to find, but... coincidence was on our side. When I learned that you were on the vessel, I knew the Sith would not be far behind. When we intercepted the Harbinger, it was crippled, drifting in space. It was a simple matter to board the vessel and rescue you. Unknown to me, however, the Sith were already on board. Just as we made the jump to hyperspace, they fired upon us, nearly destroying the Ebon Hawk"

 

Now, noting what the Harbinger's captain says in his logs, the part about the Ebon Hawk finding the Harbinger drifting in space is clearly less than true. She certainly knew that the Sith were there, since she had just been attacked by them herself and then played dead on the Ebon Hawk.

 

The log mentions that T3 was badly damaged, yet T3 is fine during the prologue, and I doubt the Harbinger crew repaired him, so now I'm beginning to wonder if Kreia didn't lie about the whole thing and manipulated it to her advantage. First she approaches the Harbinger, but then Sion's warship attacks the Ebon Hawk and damages it, killing most of the crew. The Ebon Hawk sends out a distress call and the Harbinger responds, arriving on the scene timely enough to stop the Sith attack, since the warship is now outgunned.

 

Now Kreia sees a chance to manipulate the circumstances to her advantage. She realizes that the Sith will now attempt deception and stealth over confrontation and capture the Harbinger that way, so she tries to do the same. She switches off T3 and then plays dead until the the Harbinger is brought aboard the Harbinger, and then she waits until the Sith make their move. In the ensuing confusion, she hurries to find the Exile and brings him aboard the Ebon Hawk, turns T3 back on and then flees the Harbinger. HK-50 just barely manages to get aboard. The Sith have now taken control of the Harbinger, though, and fires at the Ebon Hawk just as it makes the jump to Hyperspace, causing massive damage to the ship and knocking out Kreia, who slips into her healing meditation. T3 then saves the ship as we see in the prologue.

[Heckur]

You're right: what Kreia tells the Exile about intercepting the Harbinger cannot be completely true. The Harbinger went to the Hawk and Kreia must have known that the Sith boarded the Harbinger.

 

When starting the prologue, T3 is badly damaged. However, there is an undamaged utility droid in the storage compartment of the Hawk.

 

There is also a badly damaged HK-47 in the locked compartment. If the Republican soldiers had searched the Hawk thouroughly as they claimed, then surely they must have found him, and of course locked the compartment again.

[BattleCookiee]

Then here is the HK-conspiracy theorie (for anybody who cares)

 

(And which could also been caused by bugs)

 

HK-47 is in that Locker.

YET;

 

In the prologue HK-50 is over there, in the cutscene HK-47 can't be seen anywhere...

When you let the Sith board the Ebon Hawk when leaving Peragus, you can bash HK's door open, without finding HK-47!!!

 

And the droid thing; Isn't it the same kind of droid you can find in the Harbingers droid compartment (that locked room with 3 disabled droids, a sabotaged and a dead body)?

If it is it might have been brought onboard by the Republic Forces...

[darthbass123]

Im not so sure about that. IT was most likely a glitch.

[kalimeeri]

Regarding the Exile being aboard Harbinger, I've come to believe that Carth had something to do with it. The Harbinger is not a passenger ship; it is carrying a few diplomats who are important to the Republic. Onasi obviously had people out looking for Exile--Disciple for one--which is possibly why Exile thinks he looks familiar (although they may have met before at the Jedi Academy). Either some type of subterfuge or a very non-specific summons had to be used so as not to 'spook' Exile into thinking it had something to do with his past. Remember that the Captain had orders to keep an eye on him in particular, but not to let on.

[EnderAndrew]

I don't think so. Carth had been tracking the Exile, but I don't believe he had found him at that point.