Shocking News! Daikatana dude leaves Midway!

[Cantousent]

Troika was shameless in blaming Atari and WotC for ToEE. If your game can't make the grade without a brothel, then there's not much to your game in the first place. I agree that children should not be invulnerable, but I've understood that to be more of an international problem than a WotC guideline problem. In either case, if the publisher insists on such a rule, then follow the guideline and make the game. ...Or is it central to the game that the players be able to murder children? I didn't realise that the ability to visit a brothel and murder children were central themes in ToEE.

 

Sure, I can understand that any design team wants to remain creatively unfettered by any outside source. In the end, however, no design team has full license to do everything they desire. All games are published and, even if the publisher wanted to give them full lattitude, resources are finite.

 

This business about guidelines is just silly anyhow. While my opinion of Sawyer and his work varies, I never thought he was unreasonable over the guideline issue. My understanding was that he thought the guidelines would actually prevent his game from finishing development. Troika blamed the publisher and licensor after the fact for their shortcomings. Those aren't equivalent.

[alanschu]

MANY games are made in a year or less and come out being extremely fun to play. Why? Because the devs work within the time limit, and not against it so they can use it a crutch. Go figure.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

And which games would those be?

[GhostofAnakin]

MANY games are made in a year or less and come out being extremely fun to play. Why? Because the devs work within the time limit, and not against it so they can use it a crutch. Go figure.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

And which games would those be?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

He already told you which games, "Many". That's enough for Volourn to throw a r00fles at and say he won the argument. "

[Llyranor]

R00FLES!

[Volourn]

"And which games would those be?"

 

Search button is your friend.

[EnderAndrew]

Seriously, Jade Empire probably had well over 2 years, if not 3, and they were using an existing engine and the game still came out horribly short.

 

KOTOR:2 is just as long, if not longer than KOTOR:1 with tons of new features, and had less than a year for development. During the early development they didn't even have a full team hired.

 

Most of the problems are Q/A related, and LucasArts took 3 months off that.

 

Stop acting like children and blaming Obsidian for it. You're just making yourself look foolish.

[Volourn]

"Seriously, Jade Empire probably had well over 2 years, if not 3,"

 

At least you ar ebeing more reaSOnable than SP's silly 10 year notion.

 

 

"and they were using an existing engine"

 

No, they didn't. The Jade Empire is a new engine build specifically for JE. Where do you guys get these mythical notions?

 

 

"and the game still came out horribly short."

 

20-30 hours isn't 'horribly' short. And, the only reason why either KOTOR is longer is ebcause of Inventory Matrix. JE concentrates on actual content; not stupid inventory, or unneeded mass battles. That's a good thing; not a bad thing.

 

 

"During the early development they didn't even have a full team hired."

 

Good for them. That's pretty much true for any game's development.

 

 

"Most of the problems are Q/A related, and LucasArts took 3 months off that."

 

Most of the problems are combat, story, and inventory related. KOTOR2 is a good game; but as an Obsidian fnaboy you overrate it.

 

 

"Stop acting like children and blaming Obsidian for it. You're just making yourself look foolish."

 

A. I like KOTOR2. I liked it pretty much as much as I liked KOTOR1.

 

B. I'm blaming Obsidian for its problem because it is their fault. Theya re the dveloper so they get blamed for its weaknesses. It sure is nice of you to give Obsidian credit for everything that was done right with the game; but won't give them any blame for the wekanesses instead heaping it all on LA who seemed to have no problem QA'ing KOTOR to keep the bugs for that game at a reasonable level. Go figure. Pathetic.

 

C. Stop trolling, and calling those who disagree with you 'children' just because they have a differing view.

 

CHILD.

[Diogo Ribeiro]

"and they were using an existing engine"

 

No, they didn't. The Jade Empire is a new engine build specifically for JE. Where do you guys get these mythical notions?

 

While the engine was new, wasn't it built on Aurora tech, much like Knights of the Old Republic? I was under the assumption that they've stated they used Aurora, or aspects of it, as bases for both Knights and Jade Empire.

[EnderAndrew]

I remember when Volourn used to be funny.

 

Jade Empire looks, feels and plays exactly like the Aurora engine, and you're telling me it is a brand new engine from scratch?

 

"We have an existing engine, and it plays exactly how we want Jade Empire to play. Let's write one from scratch that plays the same way just to waste time!"

 

That sounds like the type of thing you'd say.

 

I liked KOTOR:2 more than KOTOR:1 because of the dialogue. I also had no problems with the game once it was on my XBox's HDD. I never had any lockups, bugs or glitches. Well, I noticed that after Mira was in my party, she still stood around on Nar Shadda, so there existed two Miras for a moment, but honestly that was the only glitch I saw.

 

KOTOR:1 locked up on me, and I hit the Galaxy droid.

 

KOTOR:1 overall was incredibly easy, so don't know KOTOR:2's combat. Atleast there were a few more choices with more force powers, and forms. They also made unarmed worthwhile, and made

skills worthwhile. I had no uses for skills in KOTOR:1

 

What inventory problems did KOTOR:2 have? I didn't notice any,

[Nartwak]

What inventory problems did KOTOR:2 have?

Volourn is going to say the problem was the existance thereof.

[EnderAndrew]

And surely KOTOR:1 didn't have those issues?

[Volourn]

WOW! Quick responses here...

 

RP wrote: "While the engine was new, wasn't it built on Aurora tech, much like Knights of the Old Republic? I was under the assumption that they've stated they used Aurora, or aspects of it, as bases for both Knights and Jade Empire."

 

As far as I know the KOTOR engine (I forget the name they gave it) is based off the Aurora; but JE engine is completely new. At it's most basic level it might have the Aurora; but I doubt it.

 

Endertroll wrote: "I remember when Volourn used to be funny."

 

A. You remember wrong as I am *never* funny.

 

B. You would only think I'm funny if I was responding to someone else.

 

C. Stop beinga troll and making this topic about me. Let's discuss the actual issue and not silly board personalities. Posters ar enot important. Topics are. Only trolls like you think otherwise and try to make this about a user name.

 

 

"Jade Empire looks, feels and plays exactly like the Aurora engine, and you're telling me it is a brand new engine from scratch?"

 

Anyone who has played NWN or even KOTOR series than goes on and plays JE should know that the engines are COMPLETELY different. The graphics, the combat systems, the inventory (as limited a sit is, JE does have one) the two engines are different. As different as, say, the TOEE engine is when compared to the IE.

 

 

"I never had any lockups, bugs or glitches."

 

Then why try to lay blame on non existing bugs on LA? R00fles! If KOTOR2 has no bugs than any problems are 100% Obsidian's fault as it would mean any existing problems are in Obsidian's design.

 

 

"KOTOR:1 overall was incredibly easy, so don't know KOTOR:2's combat. Atleast there were a few more choices with more force powers, and forms. They also made unarmed worthwhile, and made"

 

KOTOR was easy. KOTOR2 was even easier - a task I didn't think was possible.

 

 

"What inventory problems did KOTOR:2 have? I didn't notice any,"

 

The KOTOR series has one of the worst inventory systems ever created. Ever. Awful, awful, awful. Disorganized, messy, asanine, horrid, matrix style, and just plain bad.

 

That is all... for now.

 

 

"And surely KOTOR:1 didn't have those issues?"

 

You seem to be overrating my opinion on KOTOR1. I like it about the same as KOTOR2. It slightly edges KOTOR2 out only because of having less bugs, more interesting party companions, and a better utilized twist while KOTOR2 wins out with the awesome use of skills.

[EnderAndrew]

I would be sincerely shocked if Jade Empire wasn't built on Aurora.

 

In KOTOR:1, the only fight that was difficult was killing Bendak Starkiller with a level 2 character. I ran into several difficult fights in KOTOR:2, but most of these were when I played with other characters and didn't have Force Heal.

 

Mira fighting all those mercs in the arena was really tough, as was G0T0's yacht without my PC, and Atton taking on the Twin Suns. Some people found Sion really tough if you played Korriban early.

[metadigital]

I remember when Volourn used to be funny. ...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

He's under a lot of pressure to get my mods finished.

[Volourn]

"I would be sincerely shocked if Jade Empire wasn't built on Aurora."

 

Just to add to this, JE's engine was built solely to make prime use of the x-box unlike the Aurora or even KOTOR which was deisgned for both x-box and PC.

 

At most, the very basic level of JE empire *might* have some Aurora code though I'd be surprised if anything else.

 

Seriosuly, what about JE makes you think of Aurora when playing JE? Outside of the developer that is.

 

I mean, the graphics are completely different. The combat engines are different as JE is 100% RT while Aurora is on the 6 second rule. And everything else including character models, inventory (of course, this isn't really engine based), and mapping system are vastly different.

 

I mean,s eriosuly, what makes you think that other than that BIo developed both...

 

 

"He's under a lot of pressure to get my mods finished."

 

Nah, I was never funny. Besdies, people only find me funny when I'm not using my non existing humour on them. Afterall, it's better to be the audience than the target. "

[alanschu]

"And which games would those be?"

 

Search button is your friend.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

If I knew what the search criteria should be.

 

Plus, I figured you'd already have an idea on what these games would be and could cite at least some from memory, since you already know them :\

[Volourn]

Geez... We are discussing some of the most easy examples in another thread. Come on, people. If we are all gonna post a lot and go over the same subjects over and over again for the privlege of the newbies at least pay attention and use common sense.

 

Thank you.

[EnderAndrew]

Honestly, the whole game reeks of Aurora. The way you target someone is identical to targeting in KOTOR. Inventory is very similar. The whole menu interface is identical. Dialogue is exactly the same. The controls are very similiar.

 

Combat is honestly the only thing that seems different on any level, yet Jade Empire seems to be turn-based made real-time.

 

Have you ever noticed that you press an attack and it goes off instantly one round, but sometimes the attack won't go off until "it's your turn?"

[Volourn]

No.

 

 

"Honestly, the whole game reeks of Aurora."

 

Now the game literally smells? WOWSERS!

 

" The way you target someone is identical to targeting in KOTOR."

 

LMAO I guess it is similar to many games including the IE, FO, and a host of others. Afterall, you point at the monsters and click. R00fles!

 

" Inventory is very similar."

 

R00fles! Inventory is not even close to being the same. Heck, JE's inventory and its difference from Aurora/KOTOR is one of the more controversial issues. Some think its too simplified, some likely its refineness, et.c. It's inventory not very similar. Not even close. You might as well say it is similar to FO, BG, or heck G2.

 

"The whole menu interface is identical."

 

No, it has simialrities; but identical it is not.

 

" Dialogue is exactly the same."

 

No, it isn't though the set up is. Then again, might as well say the dialogue is similar to BG, FO, or any other RPG. Go figure.

 

"The controls are very similiar."

 

Not even in the same stratosphere.

 

 

"Combat is honestly the only thing that seems different on any level, yet Jade Empire seems to be turn-based made real-time."

 

That's nonsense. JE is 100% RT. There's nothing turn base about it. The Aurora (and the IE) are tb combat made into RT. JE is not.

 

 

"Have you ever noticed that you press an attack and it goes off instantly one round, but sometimes the attack won't go off until "it's your turn?"

 

Error error error alert! Error error error alert! There are no turns in JE. None, zilch, zero, nadda. It's RT. Did you play the game?

[EnderAndrew]

I beat the game, in 12 hours. I love how you call it 30 hours of gameplay, BTW.

 

I would hit attack, and I maxed my styles for speed right away. I took the speed character, and sometimes my guy wouldn't attack right away. He'd pause a half-second, and other times he wouldn't. I have no explanation for these pauses other than there may have been turns under the mechanics.

 

And plenty of people have argued that KOTOR was pure real-time with pause. They'd be wrong as well.

[Volourn]

"I beat the game, in 12 hours. I love how you call it 30 hours of gameplay, BTW."

 

I like how you misquote me. I said it was 20-30 hours. I simply don't believe you completed in 12 hours unless you played on super easy and skipped every single conversation and extra quest. Period.

 

 

"I have no explanation for these pauses other than there may have been turns under the mechanics."

 

You just explained it yourself. It's the speed of the attacks. There are, once again, NO TURNS in JE espicially in comaprison to the other BIO engined powered games using the Aurora, Odessy, or IE.

 

 

"And plenty of people have argued that KOTOR was pure real-time with pause. They'd be wrong as well."

 

Yes, they'd be wrong. Then again, KOTOR runs on the '6 second rule'. JE does not. That's why JE is RT, and KOTOR is not. Huge difference in how their combats are run.

[EnderAndrew]

If you have a modded XBox, I will be happy to email you my save game. I completed every single side-quest save for one that was offered to me, but required that I be close-fist to complete.

 

I also explored every map as well as I could, and read every line of dialogue. I also played every level I could of the mini-games.

 

And you haven't offered up any explanation for why attacks sometimes pause and sometimes don't. The game behaves like a RT on TB system.

[Volourn]

"And you haven't offered up any explanation for why attacks sometimes pause and sometimes don't. The game behaves like a RT on TB system."

 

I didn't have to as you did. Attack speed is the issue; not the turn. JE is not a turn base game. You are the first (and only) person to actually try to claim that it is. So, so, so silly.

[EnderAndrew]

Characters who didn't focus on speed may have assumed their characters weren't fast.

 

I picked the fast character, and bumped up the speed of all my attacks. Some attacks were instant, and others weren't. I may have been in a better position to notice the difference.

[Volourn]

Speed of attacks is the key. Not turns. You keep saying this yet trying toc laim it has to do with turn base combat when it has nothing to do with why your attacks are slow. Remember, some of the attacks are inherently slower than others ie. White Demon.

 

Picking a specific character (model), btw, has nothing to do with character advancement since they're jsut models not actual characters.