The Korriban tomb, and the vision of Revan.

[EnderAndrew]

What I don't understand is why Kreia felt the Exile could be the end of the Force and she put all her eggs in the Exile's basket, when Nihilus would seem the more obvious choice.

[Jediphile]

As pretty as the "Nihilus-is-the-dark-side-of-Exile" idea is, I'm compelled to disregard it. It's not Ultima, and Exile is not Avatar. (Although there are some parallels to other characters, like Nameless One from Planescape: Torment.) Avatar killed Guardian by sacrificing his own life, and what do we see in KOTOR II? Exile kills Nihilus, who is believed by someone to be his dark side self, and still lives (even in the DS story);

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

But did we? He strikes him down, and then Nihilus disappears in some strange haze of red, while the protagonists don't even raise an eyebrow... And the Exile takes the mask, but can't even be bothered to look at Nihilus' face? Odd... After all, since they were both at Malachor V, Nihilus might have been someone he knew, perhaps even an old ally, yet Nihilus' face is never revealed. Why?

 

Exile kills Traya who is supposed to have a Force bond with him and still survives. Although the latter was explained by Lonna Vash in the deleted content.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Probably because Exile had confronted Nihilus by then. As for the Lonna Vash explanation, do you have a reference to that (sound files or in the dialogue)? I'd really like to see or hear it.

[EnderAndrew]

Nihilus could be a physical manifestation of the Exile's force wound. Never mind Revan being Revan and not realizing it. Never mind Tyler Durgen. The Exile and Nihilus can be in two locations and appear to be two seperate people, where as Nihilus was merely an extension of the Exile, whom was reclaimed.

[Sikon]

As for the Lonna Vash explanation, do you have a reference to that (sound files or in the dialogue)? I'd really like to see or hear it.

The lines are in dialog.tlk, extracted here. The corresponding voiceover is in StreamVoice/802/vash01. Basically, while it is painful to lose someone you are bonded with, it is not fatal. Such bonds are common between Masters and their Padawans; Vash herself had a bond with her Padawan, Kaah, and, despite feeling his death, survived it. Also, one side of the bond can become deaf to it and unable to feel the other's death.

 

And if Nihilus is a physical representation of Exile's wound, then Exile most have severed this wound by destroying Nihilus. Yet Kreia is interested in both Nihilus' death and the expansion of Exile's wound - things that contradict each other.

[Jediphile]

The lines are in dialog.tlk, extracted here. The corresponding voiceover is in StreamVoice/802/vash01. Basically, while it is painful to lose someone you are bonded with, it is not fatal. Such bonds are common between Masters and their Padawans; Vash herself had a bond with her Padawan, Kaah, and, despite feeling his death, survived it. Also, one side of the bond can become deaf to it and unable to feel the other's death.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Thanks for the link and the path to the voiceover.

 

And if Nihilus is a physical representation of Exile's wound, then Exile most have severed this wound by destroying Nihilus. Yet Kreia is interested in both Nihilus' death and the expansion of Exile's wound - things that contradict each other.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Why would those be opposed? Besides, I'm not so sure Nihilus is destroyed. The way he dissolves could mean anything. For example, rather than being destroyed, he could have 'reconnected' with the Exile. That way the Exile has regained his ties to the force again, and note how that conveniently coincides in the plot with the point where the Exile and Kreia separate - Kreia leaves just as the confrontation with Nihilus comes, so the bond may have been severed without the Exile ever realizing it. After all, he wasn't even aware that his connection to the force had remained lost, and that he used force powers only through his force bonds with other people.

 

What I find interesting in the cut Vash dialogue where concerning Nihilus is this:

 

"Look within for the answer. We are each solely accountable for everything in our lives. Nothing ever happens to us unless we allow it."

 

By this comment it is clear that the Exile has accepted a lot without being aware of it. What else has he accepted without realizing it?

[Darth Vagula]

I truly love games what leave mysteries like this, so that we players can argue and make up all kind a theories . Anyway i think that Visas didnt just start to serve Exile becose of his force bond ability(Remember the words what Visas said on Ebon Hawk before the last trip to Telos that she serves Exile becose she wants to not becose of the force bond.). I think she served him becose he is supposed to serve his master and Exile is part of Nihilus what makes him the master too.

[Jediphile]

I truly love games what leave mysteries like this, so that we players can argue and make up all kind a theories .

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Yeah, that's the good thing about open endings - it leaves a lot of interesting speculation. After Episode V, people were really going crazy over whether Vader was really Luke's father or not.

 

Not quite the same with KotOR2, though. KotOR2 isn't just open-ended - if it had been that would have been okay - it's unfinished and cut to pieces. The Nihilus bits all still being there is interesting, though...

 

Anyway i think that Visas didnt just start to serve Exile becose of his force bond ability(Remember the words what Visas said on Ebon Hawk before the last trip to Telos that she serves Exile becose she wants to not becose of the force bond.). I think she served him becose he is supposed to serve his master and Exile is part of Nihilus what makes him the master too.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Yes, that's an interesting aspect, isn't it? I don't think it was planned as such, since that would indicate that Visas knows of the Exile/Nihilus connection (if that presumption is correct), and I doubt she is, but it does work well to also suggest the connection on a more subtle level. It can definitely be construed as another clue.

[Sikon]

Nihilus is too dangerous to be left alive by the developers. If they make him return, it would mean their complete lack of originality, something I always hated in the lame "cloned Palpatine" series. They should have left him truly dead, like Lucas intended. I think Obsidian is wise enough not to repeat that mistake. Besides, Palpatine was cloned because fans wanted to see him once again, and I really doubt we can say the same about Nihilus.

[Jediphile]

Nihilus is too dangerous to be left alive by the developers. If they make him return, it would mean their complete lack of originality, something I always hated in the lame "cloned Palpatine" series. They should have left him truly dead, like Lucas intended. I think Obsidian is wise enough not to repeat that mistake. Besides, Palpatine was cloned because fans wanted to see him once again, and I really doubt we can say the same about Nihilus.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I don't agree. Palpatine's clones were a bit of a surprise when introduced in the "Dark Empire" comic books. And they did serve to explain something that had always bothered me in the films. I mean, take a look at ROTJ - Luke is on the Death Star II with Vader and Palpatine and there are some confrontations. Now, in spite of anything Luke does on the Death Star, the rebels do disable the generator and do enter the Death Star so they can destroy it. The whole point of the story was that Luke *had* to face his father and destroy the emperor, because nobody else could (except Leia, as Yoda suggests in ESB). But by the end of ROTJ, it really doesn't matter, because Luke could have turned to the dark side, been killed, or whatever and the Death Star II would still have been destroyed and Palpatine and Vader would still be just as dead...

 

Palpatine's clones *did* fix that problem, because it showed us that Luke could never have defeated him there, and it wasn't until his spirit was finally exorcised that Palpatine was finally defeated. Too bad about the crappy "Empire's End" books, though - they could have been a lot better.

 

As for Nihilus, it depends a lot on how he returns. Imagine having the Exile's old friends face off against Nihilus, defeat him, take off the mask and then see... The Exile! That could be great, I think :cool:

[Darth Vagula]

Least there could be some reference to him what would solve his mystery. But i would be glad to see Nihilus once again.

[Darth_Schmarth]

Nihilus is a schmuck. He had potential, but was totally wasted as a character. To bring him back now, after turning him into red space-incense, would be nothing short of pathetic.

[Sikon]

I don't agree. Palpatine's clones were a bit of a surprise when introduced in the "Dark Empire" comic books. And they did serve to explain something that had always bothered me in the films. I mean, take a look at ROTJ - Luke is on the Death Star II with Vader and Palpatine and there are some confrontations. Now, in spite of anything Luke does on the Death Star, the rebels do disable the generator and do enter the Death Star so they can destroy it. The whole point of the story was that Luke *had* to face his father and destroy the emperor, because nobody else could (except Leia, as Yoda suggests in ESB). But by the end of ROTJ, it really doesn't matter, because Luke could have turned to the dark side, been killed, or whatever and the Death Star II would still have been destroyed and Palpatine and Vader would still be just as dead...

It was proposed that Palpatine used Battle Meditation to help his forces. Therefore, if Palpatine was alive, the Rebels may have never penetrated the station's defenses.

I wouldn't mind if they resurrected him once, but twice? Or thrice, I don't really remember. And it was rumored they're going to do it once more.

As for Nihilus, it depends a lot on how he returns. Imagine having the Exile's old friends face off against Nihilus, defeat him, take off the mask and then see... The Exile!

The problem is, Exile can be male or female, while Nihilus is male. It is established by Visas when she says she saw "just a man, nothing more".

[Jediphile]

It was proposed that Palpatine used Battle Meditation to help his forces. Therefore, if Palpatine was alive, the Rebels may have never penetrated the station's defenses.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Too bad they didn't say this in the movie.

 

But then how could they - nobody had heard of Battle Meditation until the Saga of Nomi Sunrider was written almost a decade later...

 

I wouldn't mind if they resurrected him once, but twice? Or thrice, I don't really remember. And it was rumored they're going to do it once more.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Well, he *was* only revived during the "Dark Empire" trilogy of series. That means he lived 14 or so comic books beyond ROTJ - that's not too bad. It would have been much worse if kept dragging it on long beyond that, but they did close the Pandora's box they opened inside the series itself. So even if you don't like it, they did at least clean up the mess themselves.

 

The problem is, Exile can be male or female, while Nihilus is male. It is established by Visas when she says she saw "just a man, nothing more".

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

And how did she "see" that - as a Miraluka, she is completely blind.

 

Even if we do establish Nihilus as male and leave the Exile to be either male or female, that still doesn't preclude the idea that the Exile is Nihilus. After all, the 'nothingness' that the Exile would have abandoned couldn't have lived on by itself without manifesting itself in some form and incarnation, and so it could have entered and revived the body of whatever near-dying jedi was around on the field of battle on Malachor V. Problem solved. Indeed, I suspect it took the dead or dying body of someone close to the Exile - a fellow jedi or perhaps the Exile's master.

[Darth Vagula]

The problem is, Exile can be male or female, while Nihilus is male. It is established by Visas when she says she saw "just a man, nothing more".

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Well actually she says this. I am not sure does he say it to a Light sider too as i cant remeber. And only think that referances to that Nihilus is a male is that Kreia says he is not a man anymore. Hmm on other hand why would Kreia say he was a man if he was not.

[Jedi Master D Murda]

Well, if it's violet, it requires more explanation, since violet is a "universal" color, used by both light- and dark-siders. But one dark and one universal saber... it doesn't make sense. It would be have more sense of there was one light and one dark saber, or one or two dark sabers. Or did they mean Revan was 3/4 dark and 1/4 light? Well, perhaps it was a stupid thought. But seriously, he only appears with one lightsaber in KOTOR I cinematics, if I recall correctly, so there must be a reason for two of them...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Since everything in the cave was from the Exile's mind he could have thought that Revan used a Violet and Red saber.

 

You might not call the Exile light side (as opposed to Nihilus being obviously dark sided), yet note how the jedi masters say that the Exile was the only jedi to ever return to face their judgment after leaving for the Mandalorian Wars. According to Revan's plans, the Exile should never have been able to do this (as per HK-47's comments about Revan 'cleaning house" on Malachor V), and yet the Exile resisted this fate.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

From what I understand, because of the Exile's ability Revan's plan for him was to either turn himself and everyone at Malachor V to the DS and if they did not turn they would perish. Also HK tells you that Revan actually wanted the Exile to go back to the Council even though it was the Exile's choice and Malak hated the Exile for not going to the Unknown Regions with them and wanted him dead but Revan did not allow it.

[Jediphile]

Also HK tells you that Revan actually wanted the Exile to go back to the Council even though it was the Exile's choice and Malak hated the Exile for not going to the Unknown Regions with them and wanted him dead but Revan did not allow it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Huh?!?

 

Where did that come from?

 

Not saying you're wrong, but I have no recollection of anything to suggest that. Did or miss something or does anyone else remember this? Can anyone point where this was suggested in KotOR2?

[WinterSun]

If you get enough influence with HK-47,he'll tell you during conversation

[metadigital]

I don't agree. Palpatine's clones were a bit of a surprise when introduced in the "Dark Empire" comic books. And they did serve to explain something that had always bothered me in the films. I mean, take a look at ROTJ - Luke is on the Death Star II with Vader and Palpatine and there are some confrontations. Now, in spite of anything Luke does on the Death Star, the rebels do disable the generator and do enter the Death Star so they can destroy it. The whole point of the story was that Luke *had* to face his father and destroy the emperor, because nobody else could (except Leia, as Yoda suggests in ESB). But by the end of ROTJ, it really doesn't matter, because Luke could have turned to the dark side, been killed, or whatever and the Death Star II would still have been destroyed and Palpatine and Vader would still be just as dead...

 

Palpatine's clones *did* fix that problem, because it showed us that Luke could never have defeated him there, and it wasn't until his spirit was finally exorcised that Palpatine was finally defeated. Too bad about the crappy "Empire's End" books, though - they could have been a lot better.

...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Why would a being want their clone to take over after their demise? That's not different to a close friend, apprentice, child, etc. There is no link. Especially when you consider the training that must be necessary to create a "clone" of the person's personality ...

 

Very silly conceit.

[Weaponmaster303]

Interesting readings guys.

 

Ive been thinkin about what you guys are saying and it makes sense to a degree. Ive been thinkin and the whole nihilus being the dark self of exile and that sounds pretty good.Just think about it Kreia states that he was once a man but power changed him.The power at malachor could of seperated the dark from the light and caused the other side to mutate.It just seems to fit in.And even if it truly isnt the exiles other side it could still be a creation of what the exile did or by one of his actions.I could just imagine a dead jedi who looses his force ability only to steal or gain the exiles cast down ds force connection.

[Calax]

actually meta, the emperor uses the force to literally shove his conciousness into the new body. He also does this to Bevel Lemsick(sp), everytime somthing of Bevels failed (Death Star, about a gazillion other things) Emperor would kill Bevel. Everytime he shunted the mind from one body to the other. Eventually the emperor would start to become very very creative, like dipping poor bevel in molten nickle.

[metadigital]

actually meta, the emperor uses the force to literally shove his conciousness into the new body. He also does this to Bevel Lemsick(sp), everytime somthing of Bevels failed (Death Star, about a gazillion other things) Emperor would kill Bevel. Everytime he shunted the mind from one body to the other. Eventually the emperor would start to become very very creative, like dipping poor bevel in molten nickle.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well, that makes a bit more sense, I suppose (only a bit, though). So why would the intelligence / soul inside the clone let the emperor do this?

 

Bevel sounds like that character in The Sixth Day that Arnie keeps killing ...

[hawk]

Statement: Before you face Darth Revan and you see yourself I used Force Sight to see their alignments. Well, they both have DS Mastery for sure. I guess that will explain enough and therefore I don't take the violet and red lightsaber question of Darth Revan too seriously.

And I do think that it will represent some of what will happen in Kotor III because every vision represents one period. First Darth Malak, then the Mandalorian Wars, Kreia and your friends maybe a day afterwards and then a year later.

 

I think I also wanted to know something about Malachor V. When you go to this place, the exile obviously doesn't fall to DS by coming here, but what about Mira. She will face Hanharr and as a force sensitive I think she also should fall to the DS, don't you think. Off course, you don't have to train Mira to become Jedi but I wonder. When you defeated Kreia, she is not telling anything about your friends falling to the DS.

Any guesses about what happens in the LS ending with Mira on Malachor V?

[jodo kast 5]

Any guesses about what happens in the LS ending with Mira on Malachor V?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

yeah she and the Exile leave handmaiden and Visas after they escape the destruction of M5. to go get married

[Guest MacleodCorp]

After playing through K2 for the sixth time in six months, I have realised something about the Korriban tomb, and the vision of Darth Revan you receive there.

 

Before you say anything, it isn't the problem that Darth Revan is only ever shown with 2 lightsabers. (Though that's a problem in itself).

 

It's the fact that just before you talk to the vision (or try to), standing beside him, is a vision of a Dark Jedi. Namely, a dark side you. As soon as you begin talking to Revan, this dark side you disappeers. Why? If all this vision of a dark side you does is stand there, then disappeer, then what is the point of it?

Is it more cut content?

 

Besdies that, you supposedly turned away from the corruption of Darth Revan after The Mandalorian Wars, so why does this vision show you as Dark Side?

 

What is the point of this vision of the Dark Side you standing beside Darth Revan?

And why does this Dark Side you vision do bugger all?

 

Thoughts?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Oky, lets start with your first thought:

Edit: "just before you talk to the vision (or try to), standing beside him, is a vision of a Dark Jedi. Namely, a dark side you."

If you remember "Empire Strikes Back". Luke was in a tainted area of Daghobah, and he saw a vision of himself in Vader's Outfit, which can be translated to his inner darkside. Otherwords, he had a conflict to deal with.

 

Next thought:

Edit: "Besdies that, you supposedly turned away from the corruption of Darth Revan after The Mandalorian Wars, so why does this vision show you as Dark Side?"

Actually, this is unclear. All that was mentioned was that you came back to the Council for judgement, and even the reason why you did this is unclear. The premise is: Did you actually fall at Malacore V, or are you still a Jedi, but you lost your connection with the force..

 

You see, the game was edited weirdly. I would think this would be answered clearly at another time, but you do have valid questions!

[Jediphile]

Well, that makes a bit more sense, I suppose (only a bit, though). So why would the intelligence / soul inside the clone let the emperor do this?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

They don't get to have a choice. The clones are "grown" in tanks and are never allowed to obtain consciousness until Palpatine wants to jump into one. This way he can die about as many times as he likes and still survive in a new body. Luke's apparent fall to the dark side is really just a pretense to get close to those tanks so he can destroy them, though Luke doesn't resist the dark side quite as well as he thought, either.