The Korriban tomb, and the vision of Revan.

[master_pendrak]

"I do not agree that the Exile cut others off from the force, however. If he had, Revan and Malak would have suddenly had a large proportion of their converted jedi cut off from the force, and that doesn't seem to have happened"

 

hmm this is answered i suppose you could say if Exile was on Malachor V's surface his "thought bomb" (for the time being im calling it that purely because they way the force bond draining is described seems similar in the way that the one in 2000years in the future worked) could have only killed those on the surface. Remember Nihilus cant kill people on the otherside of the galaxy, he needs to be close to the planet the sentient is on before he can feed on them.

 

i have wondered is Nihilus a balance in the force against the Exile and the wound he created. A body, shell, created to host a manifestation of the Exile and all he ISNT and denied to be. Basically, Nihilus could be the manifestation of the destiny the force had planned for him.

 

But i agree with practically everything you have said Jediphile, i cant disagree or dispute your theories as wrong. Because you have created a strong argument. And as you said we will know more in KOTOR3, i hope lol

 

i do hope K3 will deal with some issues between K1 + K2

[darthbass123]

Obsidian did an o.k. job with telling us what happened.

[metadigital]

...

I have wondered is Nihilus a balance in the force against the Exile and the wound he created. A body, shell, created to host a manifestation of the Exile and all he ISNT and denied to be. Basically, Nihilus could be the manifestation of the destiny the force had planned for him.

...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

*Storms into thread without reading most of the preceding tens-of-thousands-of-words*

Hey, that's a neat idea!

 

So Nihilus is the fate that the Force had for the Exile, which the Exile changed (by taking control of her own destiny); so Nihilus is a Force Echo of the Exile, and there is a wound in the Force that represents the difference between what the Force fate of the Exile was, and what the true free fate is.

 

I like it!

 

 

Carry on ...

[RevanRedefined]

I disagree. I don't think that Nihilus and the Exile are alike. Nihilus feeds from force sensitives to sustain what's left of his soul. The Exile merely bonds with them, he's not necessarily feeding off them for survival, but for power.

 

Plus, Nihilus's victims become mindless slaves. Though Exile does affect their judgement, I still think all of the people he bonded with were rational.

 

And if Nihilus was a part of the Exile, wouldn't the Exile have died, when he perished? He wanted the Exile for his ability. Nihilus needed to feed from force sensitives, and I think he wanted the ability to bond with them better, to further sustain him and make him stronger.

[metadigital]

I think (and I'm not going to read through all of Jediphile's stuff right now) the point was that Nihilus was the wound left by the connection the Exile had with her Master, when the Master died on M5 and the Exile cut herself off from the Force, severing the magical umbilical bit, which became Nihilus.

 

So killing Nihilus didn't affect the Exile, because the Exile was recovered from the initial Force Wound injury causd at M5.

[DAWUSS]

Wasn't Nihilus discovered after the incident of Malachor V?

[Jediphile]

Wasn't Nihilus discovered after the incident of Malachor V?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Discovered, yes. But there is little doubt that whatever created him, it was tied to the Exile (the masters pretty much say so indirectly, and that's just because they don't know Nihilus) and it happened on Malachor V at the end of the Mandalorian Wars.

[darthbass123]

When do the Masters say this. (Indirectly).

[Jediphile]

When do the Masters say this. (Indirectly).

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

From the dialog.tlk file - this happens during the meetings with the masters on Dantooine. I don't recall who says what, but it doesn't matter...

 

"It is not the strength of a Jedi you feel."

 

" He's right. It's... all the death you've caused to get here. You feed on it, and you grow stronger. You're like Malachor... it's in you, it's what you are now. You must have noticed as you've fought across all these planets, killing hundreds - only to become more and more powerful. Why do you think that was?"

 

"But what's worse, is that bonding you have - it hasn't gone away. It's gotten stronger, and the more attachments you form, the more you draw others to you.And that is why you are a threat to us all.What if other Jedi went to war as you did, suffered the same events, and emerged as you did. What if there was a crucible that trained such Jedi to consume and kill? For you, Malachor was that crucible."

 

"What's worse, is these Sith that we face... I fear that they have learned the lesson of Malachor all too well. It is what allows them to prey on Force users, to become stronger when Force Sensitives are near. {Accusing}Somehow, they have learned their hunger from you. And so you have brought about the end of the Jedi, and perhaps all the knowledge of the Force."

 

EDIT: Let me add this, which comes just a bit later:

 

"There was a gathering of Jedi on the planet - when we realized that something was attacking us, we resolved to meet secretly to attempt to find this threat.Then... Katarr was no more.When we felt Katarr die, there is something we felt, something we'd felt once before. An echo in the Force.We'd felt it before when you stood before us. Whatever this threat, whatever this hunger is, it is something tied to you, something you have experienced directly."

[DAWUSS]

One thing I paid some more attention to when I played through the tomb again (since I have a save right outside it), and I was beginning to wonder what visions the dead Jedi explorers were receiving. Apparently everyone receives visions in there. Also, did anyone else notice how weak they all were? I mean, one hit and they vanish.

 

I think the tomb could have been done a little better (It's good, don't get me wrong), especially with the DS rendition of yourself standing next to Revan.

 

With me, it may have gone something like this:

 

Past-

Malak, Bastila, and the others - fine as is

Dxun - fine as is

Insert some Malachor V moments, maybe a segment that includes you, Bao-Dur, and the Mass Shadow Generator

 

Present- not much you can really work with, even though it's a complete spoiler on Kreia. Maybe some more party members could be added into the slugfest, like G0-T0, Mira, and Visas. Also, they should be at the skill level their actual counterparts are

 

Future-

Revan and the Exile - After the Exile vanishes and the fight with Revan occurs, the DS Exile should return again and you combat it, symbolizing a duel with yourself, something you've done the entire time while in the tomb

[Jediphile]

Future-

Revan and the Exile - After the Exile vanishes and the fight with Revan occurs, the DS Exile should return again and you combat it, symbolizing a duel with yourself, something you've done the entire time while in the tomb

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

You know, I think it's actually rather interesting that you *don't* battle yourself. I mean, it does serve to underscore the point that the Exile is still in denial about his past and his powers that you don't, doesn't it? Fascinating....

[Darth_Onivega]

that may had been the Exile if he had followed Revan to war in the jedi civil war and he may have asked Revan to reconnect him to the force

[DAWUSS]

Wow, it's been a while since I've last seen this thread! The whole visions of DS Exile and Revan could mean (based of the LSF choice) that in K3, the Exile will be faced with a choice - fall to the Dark Side and stand by Revan, who's been tainted by the True Sith, or stay in the Light Side and fight him. Right when he's on his deathbed expecting a final blow, the Exile encourages Revan to return to the Light Side, for his sake, for the Republic's sake, and for Bastila's sake. 'course you could always give him that final blow and call it a day

[DarthVala]

I'll take option number 2 please!!!

[DeathScepter]

I do think That Battle means that He (the Exile) fought Revan in the sense that Exile didn't join Revan in the Jedi Civil War.

 

During "that" time, Revan was the symbol of Evil.

 

 

I don't think Revan will be a true DS in Kotor 3.

[Darth_Zonos]

revan is true to himself nomadder what mask he wheres sith, jedi, hero what ever role he plays in Kotar 3 it will be for good nomadder how hard it is to see at the moment

[Phaedra36]

I don't think so either. Revan after all, will help destroy the Sith whether good or evil just because it has a higher purpose. The True Sith want to destroy the Republic for good, and Revan needs something to rule if he/she is evil. I imagine it will kinda be like the conversation with Goto. He is evil, but doesn't want the Republic to fall and is willing to send his droid to help you guys out.

[Darth_Zonos]

hes/shes not evil he sacerificed him self to darkness to gain the power he needed to "save" the galxey he/she is not evil he does what he needed to madder what the cost

[Darth Viper]

i'll take option A

[DeathScepter]

even the most noble of heroes can be the greatest of Villians regardless intention.

[Dyan]

hes/shes not evil he sacerificed him self to darkness to gain the power he needed to "save" the galxey he/she is not evil he does what he needed to madder what the cost

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

You shouldn't trust what Kreia says. She says as much when she says that "distrust is an effective shield and should be carried always". She has manipulated the exile since the moment he woke up and admitted as much.

 

Anything she says should be taken with a large grain of salt and a heavy dose of scepticism. Even the bits about lying, distrust and manipulation, I guess

[Darth_Zonos]

But the thing is kriea does in fact not control you completey sure she is the puppet master but your path is your own

[Dyan]

But the thing is kriea does in fact not control you completey sure she is the puppet master but your path is your own

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Of course she doesn't control you Not in the slightest. She doesn't force you to go to Malachor(sp) V, does she? She doesn't force you to hear the force again, does she? Oh and best of all - she doesn't force bond you, does she? No, not a shread of control there, no sir-ree.

[Darth_Zonos]

as kriea would say " your not listening to me". she does things like that BIG things like that big but simple at the same time. she does not control your actions your alinement who you kill and who you spare not to mention that in the end you diapoint her by not doing what she thought you would after the masters die and sure influence you and others but she can only point the path in is you who must walk it

[Dyan]

as kriea would say " your not listening to me". she does things like that BIG things like that big but simple at the same time. she does not control your actions your alinement who you kill and who you spare not to mention that in the end you diapoint her by not doing what she thought you would after the masters die and sure influence you and others but she can only point the path in is you who must walk it

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Yes, and how long would players tolerate being railroaded to that extent? How long do you think people would play the game if Kreia decided everything for you? Whether you choose to accept it or not; she controls the Exile. She makes him/her/it dependant on her - and through that, she controls the Exile. Yes, she lets the Exile make his/her own choices, but they always have consequences. Which is the point.

 

If you ever played K1, there's a comment Bindo makes about how a good teacher doesn't mash the book into the student's face - or along those lines. Kreia is much the same, only she follows up on it.