Divine Divinity and Wizardry 8

[Lancer]

These two have caught my eye for different reasons. As I understand it, DD is heavily inspired by both Ultima VII (which is a good thing!) and Diablo.

 

I didn't like Icewind Dale, for ex, because not only did it not have enough RPG elements but the dungeons were very long, boring and seemed to drag on and on. BG series dungeons, OTOH, were just about right in length to me.

Wizardry 8 just sounds like a cool 3D RPG from what I have read so far.

 

 

So how are Wizardry 8 and Divine Divinity in terms of roleplaying aspects, dungeon length, combat system..etc?

 

In regards to roleplaying aspects, I am in particular looking for a good storyline, strong character interaction, PC choices that affect NPCs and/or gameworld, and if possible non-linearity.

[Kaftan Barlast]

DD is very much a Diablo clone except it has more quests(which are usually of the formula of running around randomly until you stumble over the item you need). I played maybe 2/3 of it before I got sick of it.

 

 

Its not really a RPG because you theres only one way to do things, you dont have a party and the dialouge options are nonexistant.

[DemonKing]

I've only played the full game of Wizardry 8, but I would recommend that -great character development and tactical combat. The only problem might be the storyline which can be a bit confusing if you didn't play Wizardry 7.

 

I tried the DD demo but it didn't do much for me.

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

Only play Wiz 8 if you have a lot of patience when it comes to things moving around in combat.

 

DD is similiar to Diablo (it's a common impression from just playing the demo) but it's a huge game with bigs maps to explore.

Lots of quests, plenty of people to talk and lots of ways to customise your character.

[Zagor]

Both games have demos if you want to try them out.

 

divine divinity

 

Wizardry 8

 

I have tried both demos, and I think wizardry was the better one of the two, at least as long as the demos lasted.

[Darque]

Its not really a RPG because you theres only one way to do things, you dont have a party and the dialouge options are nonexistant.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Having a "party" doesn't make a game an RPG.

 

And not having one doesn't make a game "not" an RPG.

[Kaftan Barlast]

No, I would say a party is a pretty vital part of an RPG. And its a sign of the quality of an RPG too, just look at it; all good CRPGs over the years have party-based playing while the stinkers usually doesnt.

 

 

party-based:

 

Fallouts

Baldurs Gate Series

Ps:T

KoTORs

 

 

single char

 

Diablos

Divine divinity

Gothics

[Darque]

Single Player:

 

Morrowind

Neverwinter Nights (a sidekick/pet is not a party)

 

 

RPGS are story driven games, not party based dungeon crawls.

[mkreku]

It's kind of sad when people can't see the difference between a good game or a good feature in a game. A party is as related to a good game as is the viewing angle of the camera.

 

I never had a party in Fallout or Fallout 2. Still great games!

 

I never much played the Baldur's Gate games (I never completed the first and the second one bored me to tears) but having a party in those two were like being stuck with a horde of sheep that blocked the entrance to every building you wanted to enter. I hated it.

 

The party worked in KotOR (because they almost never got in the way) but I would much rather have played alone as my 'party' wasn't under my direct control and always wanted to attack in the dumbest ways.

[Lancer]

So DD is pretty much a dungeon romp that happens to be in a big world?

There is no character interaction or real dialogue options?

 

And as for Wizardry 8, aside from cool tactical combat and character development...how is the roleplaying and NPC interaction...etc?

 

Thanks!

 

P.S. As for demos.. I still use an archaic dail-up so that is not an option :">

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

So DD is pretty much a dungeon romp that happens to be in a big world?

There is no character interaction or real dialogue options?

 

And as for Wizardry 8, aside from cool tactical combat and character development...how is the roleplaying and NPC interaction...etc?

 

Thanks!

 

P.S. As for demos.. I still use an archaic dail-up so that is not an option :">

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Well DD has a lot of dialogue and interactions. Some really good ones for that matter. Because its a big game it's not like they are constant. It's quite possible to go for hours without seeing anything friendly. The Demo will give you a very skewed idea of what the game is actually like.

 

Probably not that great. If I recall you can pick from two sides but it's not a game I would ever want to replay anyway. I read almost two novels in the time between the combat turns. I dont recall any memorable characters.. There are NPCS that can join up, but again I dont recall anything particularly special happening.

From what I've read, Wiz 8 is a game you play for the character building and combat (some people like it ,go figure :D )rather than for roleplaying per se.

[Kaftan Barlast]

RPGS are story driven games, not party based dungeon crawls.

 

 

And a party of characters that are integrated ito the story helps a lot. And there are more one-man-army variety dungeon crawls

 

 

 

Mkreku> weirdo. "

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

And a party of characters that are integrated ito the story helps a lot. And there are more one-man-army variety dungeon crawls

 

 

 

Mkreku> weirdo. "

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

It didnt in Fallout. It wouldnt in BG if you couldnt control them in combat either. I dont think its a coincidence that NPC's can no longer hurt you during combat these days.

[metadigital]

I hated both of them, but I gave Wizardry the benefit of the doubt for longer, as I used to play the first three of the series back in the eighties (!!)

 

There was some good stuff in Wiz8, but there was a lot of tedious hacking and slashing to get to it.

 

I got DD because Beyond Divinity was being released, and I thought it was worth a trial. I got very bored, very quickly. The puzzles seem to defeat logic in favour of chance exploration, which is not my idea of fun.

[Cantousent]

I'd suggest Wizardry 8 to anyone who enjoys a nice, turn based combat every other step of the world. At first it's something like: Cool, turn based goodness! After a while it's like: hey, didn't I fight for every step of this place already? The it's something along the lines of: Okay, how can I get from place to place with the least risk of yet another random encounter that will take at least 1/2 hour to finish? Finally, the last stage is: Maybe I can find my old Might and Magic CDs.

 

Wizardry 8 is another great game ruined by designers who have the Tarzan complex. Sure, you can make a real man's game, but when all that random crap leads more to boredom than enjoyment, then you've made a mistake. Heaven help us from game developers beating their chests so they can make a "real" game.

[metadigital]

I'd suggest Wizardry 8 to anyone who enjoys a nice, turn based combat every other step of the world.  At first it's something like:  Cool, turn based goodness!  After a while it's like:  hey, didn't I fight for every step of this place already?  The it's something along the lines of:  Okay, how can I get from place to place with the least risk of yet another random encounter that will take at least 1/2 hour to finish?  Finally, the last stage is:  Maybe I can find my old Might and Magic CDs.

 

Wizardry 8 is another great game ruined by designers who have the Tarzan complex.  Sure, you can make a real man's game, but when all that random crap leads more to boredom than enjoyment, then you've made a mistake.  Heaven help us from game developers beating their chests so they can make a "real" game.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Exactly. Those are the same stages I went through. Followed quickly by:

"How much of my harddrive is this game taking up?" and, "uninstall ALL".

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

It would have been different if the game was actually hard. As it was it was just very boring and long winded for what it wanted it do.

[metadigital]

Yep, I got the feeling it was a cop-out, a cheap way to fill in hours of game play

[DemonKing]

Yep, I got the feeling it was a cop-out, a cheap way to fill in hours of game play

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

Yep as long as you have something to occupy you between phases its not bad. There are some really good character classes and races which you dont find anywhere else.

[Dhruin]

A couple of the responses here indicate the posters clearly don't know what they are talking about with Divine Divinity.

 

The combat in DD is Diablo-inspired -- no question, but nothing else is. It most certainly has lots of dialogue, an enormous world with reasonable non-linearity, environmental interaction that is second to none and an open skill system.

 

If you simply can't stand the Diablo-like action combat, DD is not the right game. However, you can create any sort of character with the open skill system with dozens and dozens of skills to choose from and the interactivity allows you to do things like make your own poison from plants and apply it weapons.

 

Ultima VII modified with single-character Diablo-like combat, a huge skill system and modern dialogue trees is a fair description. The demo is only the opening dungeon - one of the biggest in the game. It does not give a picture of the outdoor areas or character interaction, so don't judge the game from the demo other than pure combat.

 

Wiz8 is an old-fashioned party-based game much like the Wizardries and Might & Magics before it. There's a fairly large world but the focus is definitely balancing a large party effectively for combat. It has phase-based combat...and a lot of it. Combat can last 15 minutes a battle and there is a lot of them but there's a lot of choices in designing your party. You don't see the individual members of the party (the view is first-person as if from one invisible party member) so there's no tactical movement of party members, although you can place where they invisibly stand within the group formation. The demo will give you a fair picture of the final game.

[metadigital]

Yeah, but Divine Divinity still sucks.

[Lancer]

Thanks everyone for the input and thanks Dhruin for the accurate description on DD!

 

Another question about DD...

Is the combat as extensive as it was in Icewind Dale?

In other words, is DD a dungeon crawl with roleplaying elements mixed in every now and then for good measure or is there enough RPing to satisfy fans of PST, FO, and Arcanum?

[Dhruin]

Lots of combat - it's undeniably an action-RPG. There are a large number of dungeons and combat sequences that are pure combat. In between, there's a large world with several towns / villages, lots of farms, churches etc etc with plenty of NPCs, dialogue and quests. The whole game is much bigger than IWD2, so there's probably a lot more combat -- but also a lot more dialogue, if that makes sense.

 

I'd check out the demo and do a couple of levels of the dungeon (don't do the whole thing or you'll have to do it again) to see what the combat is like. After this dungeon in the full game, this is the main overland area (this isn't all of it, but you'll spend the most time here)...

 

http://www.planetdivinity.com/maps/map01.jpg

 

You can wander this area freely talking to NPCs and taking on quests but no question many of them will end up in combat- but not always.

 

Would it satisfy a FO fan? No. Stats don't have an impact on dialogue and the player is generally playing a heroic role. Really, though, can you name many modern games that come close to Fallout in this area?

 

As a side comment, the first dungeon is simply too big, but then it's on with the real game. As another aside, although you wouldn't describe wiz8 as an action-RPG, I'm not sure there's actually less combat.

[Nameless One]

I'm on Dhruins side when it comes to divine divinity...it's one of the good games

 

the combat is diabloish (and better then that...they took the goods and added some...the interface is really well thought out) but you don't feel cheap and dirty (like it happend with diablo II when I realised with what a mindless game I wasted my time with) after playing because of the lots of dialoge and quests (which are sometimes so-so but most of the time pretty ingenious) and funny things

 

on the huge outdoor map you have plenty of things to explore (lots of little hidden stuff to enjoy between the killings...and even more monsters to kill...btw: they don't respawn like in diablo II)

 

it felt like the developers put a lot of creativity between the lines and didn't took their game to seriously

 

buy it...it's cheap and fun