Standard Characters Vs Choice Characters

[Kata_mad]

We have had 2 different types of game from Obsidian and bioware with character choice NPC.

 

So which do you prefer:

 

A very standard selection of characters like KOTOR where the only choice is Kill/Save Juhani or Buy HK-47.

 

Or one where the type your of PC affects it like TSL where you get a different character being female or male or based on alignment.

 

My personal choice is standard as i never play female PC's and rarly play darkside (I know but I just can't do it) so I don't get to see all of the NPC's available from the Character PC choices.

[OutlawJedi 1]

It seems tha the standard characters are given more depth and purpose to them anyway, so that gets my vote.

[Darkside]

I will answer this simply by example...

 

Standard: Carth, Atton

 

Choice: Disciple, Hanharr

 

'nuff said.

[metadigital]

We have had 2 different types of game from Obsidian and bioware with character choice NPC.

 

So which do you prefer:

 

A very standard selection of characters like KOTOR where the only choice is Kill/Save Juhani or Buy HK-47.

 

Or one where the type your of PC affects it like TSL where you get a different character being female or male or based on alignment.

 

My personal choice is standard as i never play female PC's and rarly play darkside (I know but I just can't do it) so I don't get to see all of the NPC's available from the Character PC choices.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Play a female character, it will do you good.

[darthsidious666]

I think standard is better, I was dissapointed that I couldn't get some characters because I was evil.

 

Then again, the whole idea of forcing peaple to travel with some NPCs(Like GOTO, Canderous, Mandalore, or Visas) annoys me. I think they should give the player some more options on NPCs.

[ncr]

I will answer this simply by example...

 

Standard: Carth, Atton    

 

Choice:  Disciple, Hanharr    

 

'nuff said.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I second that!

[metadigital]

I think standard is better, I was dissapointed that I couldn't get some characters because I was evil.

 

Then again, the whole idea of forcing peaple to travel with some NPCs(Like GOTO, Canderous, Mandalore, or Visas) annoys me. I think they should give the player some more options on NPCs.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I agree it was completely ridiculous to have Mandalore running about helping a LS Master Jedi! Why?

So Canderous could find Revan?

What a lame reason!

[Plano Skywalker]

[***SPOILER ALERT***]

 

the bottom line is that your party should "make sense". I think the devs should write the story with the LS path in mind but then make alternate party members for the DS path...

 

for instance, Mandalore, Visas and Kreia are all "forced" on you on LS when they should only have been in DS parties (I realize Kreia was a special case). And Hanharr was simply no comparison to Mira.

 

Disciple is actually an OK character, it is just that Handmaiden is more interesting to guys and Atton more interesting (I guess) to the ladies.

 

The main problem here was in the implementation....I personally think we should have about 20 possible shipmates and only 10 slots and that DSers should have to use more droids than LSers (because of the trust factor).

 

I also think that YOU should decide whether you want Mical the Disciple or Brianna the Handmaiden....it is OK for there to be a "default" choice but you should be able to override this, IMO.

[Eddo36]

That romance with Bastilla was better than all the crap ones of KOTOR 2. Not trying to sound rude, just an honest opinion.

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

Choice characters are better for two reasons. One, they increase the difference in replays. Two, they make more sense in the context of who they travel with.

 

As for KOTORI's romance being better. Going to have to disagree with that one. KOTOR II's were far more meaningful and intimate.

 

The player should NOT be able to pick and choose companions just because. First and foremost these are roleplaying games and so a certain ammount of game integrity is required.

[Calax]

that being said i must say that their should at least be a fairly good reason behind them joining you. not that the person was infatuated with you at first glance. makes me feel like the main char should be getting stalked instead of having his stalker fighting beside him

[Petay]

that being said i must say that their should at least be a fairly good reason behind them joining you. not that the person was infatuated with you at first glance. makes me feel like the main char should be getting stalked instead of having his stalker fighting beside him

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I agree thats what i felt like with certain people in both games, e.g. Mira, Zaalbar and Mandalore as they helped you with one thing and then just stuck with you afterwards...

..Im not complaining about good help though :D

 

That is why i prefered the main characters like Atton, Carth and Kreia because they had reasons to be with you on your journey and they had deeper thought out stories...

[SteveThaiBinh]

the bottom line is that your party should "make sense". 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Precisely.

 

Who are these characters? What do they want? Sure, you can influence people up to a point, but to take someone who's basically moral and turn them to the dark side is a big deal, so either give it an epic progression or don't do it at all - i.e. have them leave the party. About Mandalore,

of course it made sense that he followed LS Revan around - Revan was a hero to him, the man/woman who defeated his people, but the Exile? No.

If the writers are going to make the characters interesting and their backstories meaningful, then they have to go all the way and live with the consequences of who these characters are.

 

 

Why should the Handmaiden join you only when you're male? Or Disciple when you're female and not male? It doesn't make sense for either character.

 

[Heckur]

I want to choose who is in my party. I like the Baldur's Gate concept: 6 slots for party members, including yourself, and you choose who comes with you.

 

In Kotor this would be like 4 - maybe 5 - slots for party members in the Ebon Hawk. If all your slots are occupied, you have to kick someone out before accepting a new part member.

 

You active party with a maximum of 3 is choosen from the ones on the EH.

 

It irritates me to have 10 people/droids on board, of which seven are doing nothing besides eating their fingernails/rivets.

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

Who are these characters?  What do they want?  Sure, you can influence people up to a point, but to take someone who's basically moral and turn them to the dark side is a big deal, so either give it an epic progression or don't do it at all - i.e. have them leave the party

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

The Exile is a special case. How the characters intergrate and the whole influence system is written around the abilities of the character. It dosnt occur to them that they can leave anymore than Mira can keep up her code of not killing when your around.

[SteveThaiBinh]

The Exile is a special case. How the characters intergrate and the whole influence system is written around the abilities of the character. It dosnt occur to them that they can leave anymore than Mira can keep up her code of not killing when your around.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You know, I never really liked that explanation of events in Kotor 2 - Kreia isn't trustworthy and the Jedi council were fools. I saw it more as an attempt to explain away a rather clunky influence system. In any case, when you talk it over with Visas she rejects it out of hand - sure, you could say she wouldn't know as she's caught up in the effect, of course.

 

(I just finished replaying for the first time in over a month, and it reminded me how I really didn't like the conversation with the Jedi Council near the end - "Haven't you noticed how you've killed your way across all these planets, gaining in strength" etc. That's part of the conceit of every CRPG there's ever been! Exposing it and trying to explain it away like this just destroys the suspension of disbelief.)

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

You know, I never really liked that explanation of events in Kotor 2 - Kreia isn't trustworthy and the Jedi council were fools.  I saw it more as an attempt to explain away a rather clunky influence system.  In any case, when you talk it over with Visas she rejects it out of hand - sure, you could say she wouldn't know as she's caught up in the effect, of course.

 

(I just finished replaying for the first time in over a month, and it reminded me how I really didn't like the conversation with the Jedi Council near the end - "Haven't you noticed how you've killed your way across all these planets, gaining in strength" etc.  That's part of the conceit of every CRPG there's ever been!  Exposing it and trying to explain it away like this just destroys the suspension of disbelief.)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

True, but when you take it as fact then everything else slots into place. One of my favourite sayings is gameplay dosnt lie. And there is a gameplay effect of the exiles ability to influence people into doing things against type.

 

I thought it was a little dig at how RPGs work :D , but equally you could see it re-embracing what you have lost. You have to face upto the past before you can move on. The killing then becomes incidental.

[EnderAndrew]

Steve,

 

Mandalore follows the Exile around because Kreia strong-armed him into it.

[SteveThaiBinh]

Steve,

 

Mandalore follows the Exile around because Kreia strong-armed him into it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I don't remember the exact conversation between Mandalore and Kreia, but you might be right. Nevertheless, he's the leader of his people, and it doesn't make sense for him to wander off with the Exile, to me at least. Why not invite Queen Talia or General Vaklu along while we're at it?

[EnderAndrew]

Because Mandalore makes for a strong bodyguard, and Kreia felt like she could manipulate him.

[Plano Skywalker]

I want to choose who is in my party. I like the Baldur's Gate concept: 6 slots for party members, including yourself, and you choose who comes with you.

 

In Kotor this would be like 4 - maybe 5 - slots for party members in the Ebon Hawk. If all your slots are occupied, you have to kick someone out before accepting a new part member.

 

You active party with a maximum of 3 is choosen from the ones on the EH.

 

It irritates me to have 10 people/droids on board, of which seven are doing nothing besides eating their fingernails/rivets.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I agree. True, these games have a story to tell and they tell it through the NPCs but how many of us really talk to GOT0? How many LSers really talk to HK or Mandalore?

 

You really only need 1 or 2 "non-replaceable" shipmates to tell an immersive story through dialogue. And dialogue alone should not be the only way to get this information....hologram messages, holocrons (the training kind), radio transmissions, ghost visitations--these are triggers we need to see more of.

 

Basically, I would say go back to the way K1 did it in the sense that only 2 or 3 NPCs had information that was relavant to the main story...the others were just there by hapenstance...that's how you do it....you don't need 10 characters who are already woven into the main story....I can understand why they wanted to try that but I hope they see that it failed. Perhaps it is related to the protagonist, though.

(no more superheros !!!)

 

I definitely do not want K3 to have 10 "essential" shipmates. I want most of my mates to have sidequests, training, and totally superfluous (yet interesting) backstory. Mission Vao is an excellent example of this...she was fun to talk to but her backstory was totally detached from the main story.

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

I think KOTOR III should try to step away from the whole protagonist thing and instead tell the story through a series of chapters which involve different characters, which may or may not meet up at the end depending on what you do.

 

Not only would this be a better fit for the Star Wars thing, but it would also be a point of uniqueness.

[Plano Skywalker]

I think KOTOR III should try to step away from the whole protagonist thing and instead tell the story through a series of chapters which involve different characters, which may or may not meet up at the end depending on what you do.

 

Not only would this be a better fit for the Star Wars thing, but it would also be a point of uniqueness.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

actually, I like that idea but they have to cater to the munchkins out there who make up a big part of the market.

[metadigital]

That romance with Bastilla was better than all the crap ones of KOTOR 2. Not trying to sound rude, just an honest opinion.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

As I said in the other thread (Consoles, I think), there is an assumption in the forum that romance is mandatory for a deep connection between the audience and the fictional PC / NPCs. This is not the case. Obi-Wan in the OT when he aquiences to Darth Vader, Gandalf in the first LotR, when he falls to certain doom, these are obvious characters that -- potentially -- can invoke an emotional response, creating a profound connection.

 

I agree, a poorly scripted romance is not worth having.

 

Better writing will make a game more respected and loved and popular and give better return on investment; after all, graphics are soon superceded by the Next Big Thing, stories are remembered for generations, e.g. Planescape, Deus Ex, etc.

[Los Wackos]

We have had 2 different types of game from Obsidian and bioware with character choice NPC.

 

So which do you prefer:

 

A very standard selection of characters like KOTOR where the only choice is Kill/Save Juhani or Buy HK-47.

 

Or one where the type your of PC affects it like TSL where you get a different character being female or male or based on alignment.

 

My personal choice is standard as i never play female PC's and rarly play darkside (I know but I just can't do it) so I don't get to see all of the NPC's available from the Character PC choices.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Play a female character, it will do you good.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

PLay DS, it will do you even better..