Whining about....

[nightcleaver]

There were parts in KotOR that really stood out, but when I really think about it, nothing stood out as much as the defense of Dantooine in K2, or my first meeting with Atris, and all the interesting little surprises here and there.

 

I really feel that KotOR I started with Dantooine. Taris was interesting, but the Sith base was tedious, as was racing for the first time; the art style on Taris were also sort of dorky, if very very shiny. Endar Spire was just tedious, even the first time I was playing - although it was a good teaching tool.

 

Combat in the Odyseey engine was boring. I don't know why. Force powers were only good because they got combat over with faster; I shouldn't want that in a combat that's combat-focused.

 

I found the graphics in K1 too kiddy, and those of K2 only slightly less so, but also a little bit lacking of character. I had gotten so sick of K1's lean-on-the-hip idle position for females, but I really got sick of it in KotOR II. You would think they'd have the sense to replace it with something else.

 

Czerka was too much evil corporation, not enough... flavor. It was an over-simplification I felt that just made the galaxy that much smaller than it was already; part of the reason I tend to prefer KotOR II is because of how Czerka was treated in it. And why did we need the Sith to act like Nazi's? I already understand they're evil without bringing jews and germans into it!

 

For me, KotoR I had too much explanation, and not enough stuff actually happening; where TSL was the other way around.

 

Maybe if both games had been made by both companies, with me coordinating efforts and QA (hahaha), they would've turned out to my liking much better. As it stands, they were both very enjoyable.

[Darkside]

Dont be so immature EnderWiggin.

 

i think nightcleaver had some very valid points..not the usual whining we get from ignorant newbs :

 

''0MG OBSIDIAN SUX!!!!111 I WISH BIOWAER MADE KOTOR TOO CUS BIOWARE SUXXED AT IT!!!111 OMG!!!''

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Lol, so true, so true. And to Nightcleaver, I noticed many of the same things. One thing I've learned from the Sith bases and ships in Kotor is that the Sith are true minimalists. I'm surprised they don't get lost, what with all the halls looking so much alike. And I think we can expect a new engine next time around, what with all the complaints about the current one. But I agree, over all they were both incredible games I think I'll be playing for years to come (or at least until Kotor 3 ).

[Calax]

love it Nightcleaver. I think that they should show Czerka as more of a "good company with serious problems with corruption" That would go over soo well. Heck you could just become a part of a corperate scandel and either take the dark path (help those corrupt) or the light path (help those trying to root out corruption)

 

anyway those are my 2 cents worth

[metadigital]

Or better yet, even though the corporation is corrupt, how about the LS option (not the sole LS option, by any means, an obscure and difficult to perform option) to use the corporation for some greater good cause, without the individuals in the corporation knowing, or if they know, powerless to stop it!

 

Ditto and vice versa for a good organisation, e.g. the Jedi Order, could be used by a very clever Sith Lord.

 

Imbeciles need not attempt these difficult narratives, however, on pain of determining the reverse of their intentions.

 

:cool:

[ncr]

I pretty much second everything Nightclever said, especially the part about Czerka being dumbed down.

[Calax]

I agree with Meta (dude your rock and i love daedalus) I would think those things would happen. I mean look at the prequils, the emperor played the senate and the Jedi like a fiddle and got them to pay him. Perhaps that could be the plot only that the pc has stumbled onto the sith's plans and tries to stop them, cept he has to choose what his tool will be politically. the people, Corperations, Work within the system, Priating etc etc

[metadigital]

I agree with Meta (dude your rock and i love daedalus) I would think those things would happen. I mean look at the prequils, the emperor played the senate and the Jedi like a fiddle and got them to pay him. Perhaps that could be the plot only that the pc has stumbled onto the sith's plans and tries to stop them, cept he has to choose what his tool will be politically. the people, Corperations, Work within the system, Priating etc etc

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thanks.

 

Yeah, I really can't see the difficulty in crafting a narrative where there are different intermediary goals and consequences, depending on the plan and success of the execution.

 

You might think your PC is the bees' knees at political machination, but the reality might see them totally fail and cause the end of (Jedi Order / Sith Invasion) due to your efforts; or -- more likely -- some compromise in between.

 

It is no different in development complexity to a normal puzzle planet like Onderon, just with a few more layers to it; just because one sets out to achieve a goal, if it is difficult, the possiblities of partial successes and partial failures should be present to give the narrative depth. We love characters as much -- or more -- for their mistakes as for their successes, mistakes are what defines us as humans, after all. (If the major goal is a set of minor achievements that are themselves of sufficient difficulty then this counters the urge to restart the whole goal from scratch.)

 

For example, in the NwN HotU expansion, chapter two entails five side quests; it is possible to complete just two before the next critical point on the narrative path, and whatever the PC has done over those five goals is reflected in this crisis (either making the crisis easier or harder).

 

[Calax]

oy reminds me ironicly of Deus Ex. Now that level of complexity in an rpg on the scale of kotor starts to care me. it would be cool but it would require a huge amount of space.

 

Personally i would love to see the writers of deus ex give Kotor a try, we might be delightfully surprised.

[metadigital]

oy reminds me ironicly of Deus Ex. Now that level of complexity in an rpg on the scale of kotor starts to care me. it would be cool but it would require a huge amount of space.

 

Personally i would love to see the writers of deus ex give Kotor a try, we might be delightfully surprised.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Nah, it just requires some forward planning; it's not simple, otherwise K2 would have had it right; but similarly it isn't rocket science, either.

 

I think humans tend to cut twice and measure once, rather than measure twice and cut once. Normally, the sunk investment cost of developing a game would behoove a corporation to do their thinking up front, but you never can tell ...

[Lord Tingeling]

Rampant oversimplifications and two-dimensional baby eating-villains? In a Bioware game?

 

Gee, who would've thought!

[metadigital]

I want to be the Baby-Eating Bishop of Bath ...

[Calax]

mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm baby's give you super strength.

[metadigital]

But what's this? A cunning plan that requires the services of Baldrick, some arts suplies and the best portrait artist in all of England? What possible darstendly plan could be unfolding ...?

[EnderAndrew]

Warren Spector, the guy behind Deus Ex and many other great games just started up a new company that will focus on first-person RPGs in the style of System Shock, Deus Ex and Ultima Underworld.

[Calax]

buddy you just gave me a geekasm. Thank you.

[SteveThaiBinh]

Warren Spector, the guy behind Deus Ex and many other great games just started up a new company that will focus on first-person RPGs in the style of System Shock, Deus Ex and Ultima Underworld.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Do you have a link for the company, or for the source of the info? Thanks.

buddy you just gave me a geekasm. Thank you.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It is good news, but I wouldn't quite go that far.

[EnderAndrew]

Junction Point Studios

 

http://rpgdot.com/#39526

[SteveThaiBinh]

Thanks. I hope something really comes of it.

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

I'm lukewarm towards action combat in FPS when it comes to hand to hand.

[EnderAndrew]

Spector has a killer resume. I'll give him the benefit of the doubt.

[GhostofAnakin]

Warren Spector, the guy behind Deus Ex and many other great games just started up a new company that will focus on first-person RPGs in the style of System Shock, Deus Ex and Ultima Underworld.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

First-Person you say? I'll pass. I hate playing RPGs in anything but 3rd person.

[LordRahl33]

Wow, geekasm, thats a new one, but i gotta say that I like it. Nice call.

[Archmonarch]

Your sig, too large it is. "

[Calax]

geekasm and nerdvana. they are my terms mine hisssssssssssss

 

But if anyone has ever played Deus Ex they have very nice integration of role playing and fps.

[EnderAndrew]

People forget that many very early RPGs like Wizardy, Might and Magic, Bard's Tale and the like were all first person.

 

Ultima Underworld was quite good, and it wasn't a FPS with RPG elements.

 

I'll give Spector a shot.