Next Gen Consoles

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

well if sony doesnt have a global release planned then it will have to play catch up to microsoft. in a big way.

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How do you figure that ? The Xbox will already be out once people see the PS3 in action in Japan they will either want one or they wont. People who wanted an Xbox because they didnt want to wait for the PS3 will already have one.

 

Sony are already playing catchup whether or not they have a global release. But they have two things in their favour. An unmatched catalogue which stretches back two generations (in console years) and the more powerful machine. Both of those are big draws to the multitude who own a PS2 :D

[Epiphany]

How do you figure that ? The Xbox will already be out once people see the PS3 in action in Japan they will either want one or they wont. People who wanted an Xbox because they didnt want to wait for the PS3 will already have one.

 

Sony are already playing catchup whether or not they have a global release. But they have two things in their favour. An unmatched catalogue which stretches back two generations (in console years) and the more powerful machine. Both of those are big draws to the multitude who own a PS2  :D

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Just to clarify, the PS3 is not officially more powerful than the Xbox 360. While the Cell may in theory, be able to do more floating point calculations, there are limitations, such as running general AI processes, added to the increased difficulty in tapping into the full potential of the processor. The biggest draw back will be with the GPU. Nvidia already stated that the RSX will be roughly twice as powerful as the 6800 series, which is significantly less powerful and flexible than ATI's Xenos. The unified shaders, the eDRAM on the GPU, along with the smart memory all create a superior platform on which to design games in a closed system.

 

Don't jump on the hype train too quickly, as everything Sony showed at E3 was plain pre-rendered CG. Nothing was actual gameplay, as there were no hardware units to actually run games on at the show.

[Darth Flatus]

Dude are you being paid by microsoft or what?

[Epiphany]

Dude are you being paid by microsoft or what?

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Knowing the difference between consoles, and promoting the positive direction the industry is taking with next generation consoles does not mean I'm being "paid" by a company to do so.

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

Don't jump on the hype train too quickly, as everything Sony showed at E3 was plain pre-rendered CG.  Nothing was actual gameplay, as there were no hardware units to actually run games on at the show.

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If I were basing it on something seen at E3 you would have a point..

[Epiphany]

If I were basing it on something seen at E3 you would have a point..

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Then are you just riding the hype train with the "more powerful" comment?

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

Then are you just riding the hype train with the "more powerful" comment? 

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Hype train,truth train who can say

[Darth Flatus]

Dude are you being paid by microsoft or what?

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Knowing the difference between consoles, and promoting the positive direction the industry is taking with next generation consoles does not mean I'm being "paid" by a company to do so.

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Your info seems to have been lifted from Microsoft's propaganda. Of course if you arrived at the conclusion independently of any E3 press then i apologise for insinuating that you were not giving a fair and balanced view of the facts.

[mkreku]

Geez, none of the new consoles have been released yet and you morons are already arguing which is better and/or more powerful!

 

Well, add another moron to the bunch!

 

From what I've seen, I'd say the PS3 has the more impressive technical fact sheet (because, in all honesty, that's all we've seen from any of these machines) with the Blu-Ray disc and up to seven bluetooth controllers. Also, judging from my rather restricted programming knowledge, having a shared memory for both the CPU and the GPU (like the Xbox 360 has) is not as good as having two different dedicated RAM's for the two processors (like the PS3 has).

 

Still, all it comes down to for the end-user is the quality of the games. I'm already looking forward to playing GTA: San Andreas on my PS3..

[metadigital]

Also, the core PS3 system allows multi-threading, but the Xbox also does with a triple-core (just not as much); therefore all new console games will need to take multithreading into account to fully utilize the power of the Next Generation ...

[Volourn]

Tech is ovverated. It's all about the games. I'm not tech wiz. All that matters is the quality of the games. Right now with BIO + Obsidian + Sports = Edge to XBOX 360.

[Oerwinde]

Tech is ovverated. It's all about the games. I'm not tech wiz. All that matters is the quality of the games. Right now with BIO + Obsidian + Sports = Edge  to XBOX 360.

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Again, Bioware said they were also supporting the PS3 and Obsidian hasn't stated which one they would support.

 

Personally I think the PS3 and the 360 will be about equal this gen.

[Epiphany]

Geez, none of the new consoles have been released yet and you morons are already arguing which is better and/or more powerful!

 

Well, add another moron to the bunch!

 

From what I've seen, I'd say the PS3 has the more impressive technical fact sheet (because, in all honesty, that's all we've seen from any of these machines) with the Blu-Ray disc and up to seven bluetooth controllers. Also, judging from my rather restricted programming knowledge, having a shared memory for both the CPU and the GPU (like the Xbox 360 has) is not as good as having two different dedicated RAM's for the two processors (like the PS3 has).

 

Still, all it comes down to for the end-user is the quality of the games. I'm already looking forward to playing GTA: San Andreas on my PS3..

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While Blu-Ray is a wonderful feature, and I hope Sony does well with it, it's fairly moot regarding video gaming. The vast majority of games don't even come close to filling current generation DVD's, as programming takes little room, it's all the CGI and voice overs that eat it up. With the next generation, I see a trend of more "in game" cutscenes across the board, seeing as how Xbox 360 games are looking fairly realistic in terms of lighting, animations and features. I'm also quite sure that the PS3 will be capable of producing similar graphical effects. Aside from your standard Square-Enix title, and other "rare" cases of games with production values through the roof and beyond, I doubt you'll see enough CGI to push the limits of your standard DVD's all next gen.

 

Unified architecture in a closed system is always superior to dedicated chips of lower value. It pigeon holes you into only having X amount for what you're doing, when you may want Y & Z instead of X & X. At many points during a game, you may need to pull a little extra RAM for video or pull some for the CPU.

 

I'm puzzled why you're looking forward to playing a current gen game on a next gen system though, rather confusing to say the least...

[EnderAndrew]

There are several current gen titles that push 6 gigs, and don't fit on a single-layer DVD.

 

We'll push the limits of dual-layer discs very soon.

[Epiphany]

There are several current gen titles that push 6 gigs, and don't fit on a single-layer DVD.

 

We'll push the limits of dual-layer discs very soon.

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Next gen dual-layer DVDs hold 9 gigs, and as I said, games with little to no pre-rendered CGI will not have a storage problem. If Oblivion is fitting on a single dual-layer DVD, with explorable content that large, and over 2000 voice acted NPC's then any game that doesn't bombard you with 5 hours of pre-rendered cutscenes will do the same.

 

Blu-Ray will be insignificant next gen, mark my words on it. The only thing it will do is add unnessecary cost to the PS3, a console already pushing $500.

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

Next gen dual-layer DVDs hold 9 gigs, and as I said, games with little to no pre-rendered CGI will not have a storage problem.  If Oblivion is fitting on a single dual-layer DVD, with explorable content that large, and over 2000 voice acted NPC's then any game that doesn't bombard you with 5 hours of pre-rendered cutscenes will do the same.

 

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Oblivion is one of those big and empty games. While you may have 2000 voice acted NPCs chances are most wont say a great deal and many will be the same VO's saying the same thing over and over (although one hopes they spread them out enough).

 

Pre rendered CGI is what drives RPGs especially those from the Japanese market which MS is so desperate to make in roads into.

 

Some PS2 RPGs already come over two disks and the Xbox RPGs like Jade and KOTOR, well lets just say I'm not hugely impressed by a 40 hour game and I'm downright annoyed at a 20 hour game.

[EnderAndrew]

Blu-Ray will be insignificant next gen, mark my words on it.  The only thing it will do is add unnessecary cost to the PS3, a console already pushing $500.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You suggest that Blu-Ray will only be worthwhile for holding game data.

 

Blu-Ray is also the format for high-def DVD movies. Blu-Ray players are fairly rare and expensive. The PS3 will be my Blu-Ray player.

 

I think you also overlook the leap in graphics between the current gen and next gen. Oblivion might be released on a single dual-layer disc, but it won't take long for games to push past 9 gigs, and we'll need multi-disc games which is a pain.

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

You suggest that Blu-Ray will only be worthwhile for holding game data.

 

Blu-Ray is also the format for high-def DVD movies.  Blu-Ray players are fairly rare and expensive.  The PS3 will be my Blu-Ray player.

 

I think you also overlook the leap in graphics between the current gen and next gen.  Oblivion might be released on a single dual-layer disc, but it won't take long for games to push past 9 gigs, and we'll need multi-disc games which is a pain.

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Heres a sort of unrelated question. Since the PS2 somewhat kickstarted the DvD explosion do you think the Blu Ray will do the same thing ?

[Epiphany]

Oblivion is one of those big and empty games. While you may have 2000 voice acted NPCs chances are most wont say a great deal and many will be the same VO's saying the same thing over and over (although one hopes they spread them out enough).

 

Pre rendered CGI is what drives RPGs especially those from the Japanese market which MS is so desperate to make in roads into.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Oblivion is anything but empty... Regardless of whether or not a handful of NPC's per village have the same voice overs, there will always be another handful of people, per town that have vital information to give the player, ie, fresh dialog.

 

But you're ignoring the aspect of pre-rendered cutscenes being less of an impact for the simple fact that the game engines are so powerful, who will need them?

 

When in game looks like this, this, or this, who needs pre-rendered?

[EnderAndrew]

Not as much, until HDTVs become more common.

 

I don't think consumers will purchase HDTVs en masse until more television stations broadcast in HDTV. By 2006 all TV signals have to be digital, and some have suggested that as stations switch to digital signals in 2006, they'll then jump to HDTV.

 

I have a HDTV, and I get something like 10 channels in HDTV. A few of those channels only broadcast certain programs in HDTV. For instance, the CBS HD channel shows CSI in HD, but most programming is still in standard def, and all the commercials are in standard def.

 

Without a HDTV, Blu-Ray movies don't look any better than standard DVD movies.

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

Oblivion is anything but empty...  Regardless of whether or not a handful of NPC's per village have the same voice overs, there will always be another handful of people, per town that have vital information to give the player, ie, fresh dialog.

 

But you're ignoring the aspect of pre-rendered cutscenes being less of an impact for the simple fact that the game engines are so powerful, who will need them?

 

When in game looks like this, this, or this, who needs pre-rendered? 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

They said the same thing about the previous Elder Scrolls so you will forgive me if I take a skeptical stance here.

 

Thing is it will be the same as it was this gen. Everone will go WOW then they will get used to it and then graphics will need to be even more impressive to make people go wow again.

 

What struck me in playing one of the older PS2 games is how much the graphics have jumped in quality between the flag releases and the new releases. On the Xbox they have stayed fairly static from begining to end although at a high comparitve quality.

[EnderAndrew]

Programming for the PS1 or PS2 at launch was a new trick to learn for companies. People didn't know how to properly utilize the console originally.

 

The XBox was easier to learn initially.

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

Not as much, until HDTVs become more common.

 

I don't think consumers will purchase HDTVs en masse until more television stations broadcast in HDTV.  By 2006 all TV signals have to be digital, and some have suggested that as stations switch to digital signals in 2006, they'll then jump to HDTV.

 

I have a HDTV, and I get something like 10 channels in HDTV.  A few of those channels only broadcast certain programs in HDTV.  For instance, the CBS HD channel shows CSI in HD, but most programming is still in standard def, and all the commercials are in standard def.

 

Without a HDTV, Blu-Ray movies don't look any better than standard DVD movies.

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Still "arguing" over whether or not to get a second HDTV

[Epiphany]

You suggest that Blu-Ray will only be worthwhile for holding game data.

 

Blu-Ray is also the format for high-def DVD movies.  Blu-Ray players are fairly rare and expensive.  The PS3 will be my Blu-Ray player.

 

I think you also overlook the leap in graphics between the current gen and next gen.  Oblivion might be released on a single dual-layer disc, but it won't take long for games to push past 9 gigs, and we'll need multi-disc games which is a pain.

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Blu-Ray is an option of high def DVD playback, HD-DVD (developed by Toshiba and NEC is the other). HD-DVD is launching this year, and Blu-Ray players are not available for mass market, and won't be for this year. Which do you think consumers will support? A format that can support your current player until you purchase a new one (HD-DVD) or a format that forces you to upgrade to a costly model (Blu-Ray)?

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

Programming for the PS1 or PS2 at launch was a new trick to learn for companies.  People didn't know how to properly utilize the console originally.

 

The XBox was easier to learn initially.

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Probably going to be a similiar story this time around.