KoToR: Online

[EnderAndrew]

Garriot was a hack?

 

Are you 15?

 

Do you remember Origin Studios? Ultima I-VIII were all brilliant titles. Many of his titles changed the entire industry, and stand as iconic landmarks in the gaming industry.

 

EA bought out Origin as UO was launching and making more money than anyone expected. UO was horribly understaffed, and EA drove UO into the ground.

 

Garriot had a policy of spending far more money and time on projects than anyone else in the industry wanted to, but titles like Ultima VII still shine today because of it.

 

Garriot didn't run away from UO. EA fired the man considered by some to be the premiere designed in the industry, so they could ship titles sooner and save a few bucks.

 

Garriot also didn't really design much of UO. During production of UO, he was working on Ultima IX, which EA ended up scrapping. They threw the entire project out the window, after pulling all the staff off to help on UO. Then ordered Garriot to start anew on Ultima IX with a new 3D engine, and a focus on graphics over story.

 

Still, he had no staff and had to start from scratch. Then EA started on UO:2, and pulled staff away from Ultima IX again. Then Ultima IX was shelved for a while, and eventually rushed towards a ship date 5 years later.

 

Garriot never really worked on UO, and should never really be judged on anything after Ultima VIII, because after EA took over, he had no control or influence.

 

You apparently played one title, put out by EA and decided to judge Garriot's entire career on it, despite the fact that he didn't really work on it.

 

And none of this changes the fact that Star Wars is a cinematic, fast-moving, epic game of major characters. MMOs are weak in all those regards.

[metadigital]

The Ultima series rocked my world. I remember Akalabeth, Ultima I, ][, ]I[, IV ... not sure about V and VI, but I seem to remember VII.

 

Huge. Amazing. (Those bloody marks and cards from U3 had to be on every character's hand to get into the last area, so if you missed any characters, down to the bottom of the ugliest dungeons you go!)

[EnderAndrew]

I really liked V. VI had a good story, but I didn't care for the new interface. They wanted me to play an RPG with a mouse?

 

People forget how innovative he was. His games all pushed the boundaries of what computers could do at the time, and Ultima VII required it's own special memory manager.

 

V took the ideals of IV, and added more depth. Virtues are good, but what happens where they are twisted and applied by zealots and fanatics? IV lacked much of a plot. It also lacked a villian. IV was a good game in its concept. It was a game of philosophy along with dungeon crawling. V really built upon the strengths of IV and delivered rather well.

[metadigital]

Yeah, I never really got into IV ... (I still have the disks ) IIRC the map alone was 64 times the size of III.

 

I wonder if it's abandonware ... Where's Baley when you need him?

[EnderAndrew]

Ultima IV was released as freeware by Origin before they went down.

 

You can also find roms for it to play it on an C64.

[metadigital]

I'd need to but a C64, then. <_<

 

I had it for the PC (what was it ... 1990-1? Might have been a 486 or a first gen Pentium?) ... of course Ultima I-]I[ I had on my trusty Apple //e )

[EnderAndrew]

There are C64 emulators. I haven't had a working C64 since 1994?

 

I don't know where I can buy one either.

[the khanster]

with both of the terrible plot lines they've created so far what could they possibly think of next

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Dear Mr. Negativity,

 

Why are you one these boards if all you do is complain about the game?

Am I missing something?

 

Sincerley and thoughtfully,

 

the khanster

 

[EnderAndrew]

People really seemed to love the plot of the first KOTOR, even if the writing was cheesy. I think the plot of the second KOTOR brings up many more interesting questions, though there are some holes.

[Kalfear]

Garriot was a hack?

 

Are you 15?

 

Do you remember Origin Studios?  Ultima I-VIII were all brilliant titles.  Many of his titles changed the entire industry, and stand as iconic landmarks in the gaming industry.

 

EA bought out Origin as UO was launching and making more money than anyone expected.  UO was horribly understaffed, and EA drove UO into the ground.

 

Garriot had a policy of spending far more money and time on projects than anyone else in the industry wanted to, but titles like Ultima VII still shine today because of it.

 

Garriot didn't run away from UO.  EA fired the man considered by some to be the premiere designed in the industry, so they could ship titles sooner and save a few bucks.

 

Garriot also didn't really design much of UO.  During production of UO, he was working on Ultima IX, which EA ended up scrapping.  They threw the entire project out the window, after pulling all the staff off to help on UO.  Then ordered Garriot to start anew on Ultima IX with a new 3D engine, and a focus on graphics over story.

 

Still, he had no staff and had to start from scratch.  Then EA started on UO:2, and pulled staff away from Ultima IX again.  Then Ultima IX was shelved for a while, and eventually rushed towards a ship date 5 years later.

 

Garriot never really worked on UO, and should never really be judged on anything after Ultima VIII, because after EA took over, he had no control or influence.

 

You apparently played one title, put out by EA and decided to judge Garriot's entire career on it, despite the fact that he didn't really work on it.

 

And none of this changes the fact that Star Wars is a cinematic, fast-moving, epic game of major characters.  MMOs are weak in all those regards.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

LOL, no Im 39 but thanks for asking.

 

And Garriot was a hack to me. Compared to the other games on the market at the same time (SSI gold Box games, Might and Magic games, Wizadry games) Ultima didnt stand up to them what so ever. If you havent guessed I played all the Ulitima games and didnt like them.

 

Or better put, they were ok when there was nothing else to play.

 

As for Garriot not being involved in UO, ummmm care to make up any more stories???? Garriot was totally involved in the design of UO and was even seen INGAME on numerous occations testing content with the Alpha and beta testers. Think you need to learn about subjects before you try and state facts about them.

 

In fact, Garriot was involved in one of the WORST PR situations to date in UO (or MMORPGs history). Just prior to the release of UO, Garriot came in to do a public address from his castle, a player exploited the game (whioch was so common it was stupid in early UO) and KILLED Lord Brit ish. Garriot being the senceable person he is known to be threw a temper tantrum and proceeded to summon in daemons KILLING every player that gathered there for his address (rather then punishing the person who had exploited). It was a PR nightmare for Origin and numberous beta testers at that point in time cancelled any intent of buying the game because of it.

 

Hell Garriot himself had to publically appoligize shortly afterward to clam down the players effected by his temper tantrum.

 

But I guess as he wasnt involved in game as you state, all that was a figment of everyones imaginations! After all, you know best!

 

Garriot was a hack! Simple as that!

 

LOL, yes Garriot was fired or better put, REMOVED (after all how do you fire the creator....you dont!) because UO was falling fast and Garriot (and few others) were dedicated to leaving UO a FFA in all areas game (which is what was killing it btw).

 

So fine, by the literal meaning he was removed or fired, common sence tells us though that if you intentionally cause the firing of yourself, its pretty much the same as quiting OR RUNNING AWAY WITH HIS TAIL BETWEEN HIS LEGS!

 

And thats what he did, not to be heard from for a good long time after that either (thank god).

 

And as you said, none of this changes anything, MMORPGs can be just as cinematic, just as exciteing, just as entralling as ANY offline RPG if the designers make it as such!

 

As has been said over and over, just because something hasnt been done, doesnt mean it cant be done. All the requirements are there, all we need is for a designer/developer to step forth and do it.

[EnderAndrew]

Garriot roleplayed in UO in-character. That doesn't mean he designed the game. Check the credits on the game, and you'll see he wasn't the lead designer.

 

He was working on another project at the time. The guy who killed Lord British (and I do recall the affair) wasn't banned for killing LB. If you were a fan of the Ultima franchise, you would know that there was one way to kill British in every game. It became an easter-egg of sorts, and Garriot put it in the games to appease the fans.

 

The guy who killed LB had harrassed several players, and had been caught cheating and using exploits. Using exploits in a MMO equals a ban in every single MMO on the planet.

 

How is that the biggest PR nightmare in the world? Star Wars Galaxies has recently had an issue far worse, and I know of worse incidents on all the major games.

 

Garriot was a lead designer, and he wasn't given any control or sway over his projects, and he was fired.

 

You call that quitting and running away?

 

And I played the Gold Box Games, Wizardry, Might and Magic, Bard's Tale, etc.

 

The Gold Box Games were popular because they fairly accurately brought D&D to the table, rather than copy D&D poorly like so many other CRPGs. That didn't make the plots incredible.

 

How many people talk about those plots today?

 

Wizardy had no real plot to speak of for the first 4 titles. They were empty dungeon crawls.

 

The early M&M and Bard's Tale titles were pretty good, and still Ultima was the innovator. Ultima 0/Alkabeth innovated with 3D dungeons. Ultima II offered great complexity, multiple worlds, time travel, etc. Ultima III offered a very challenging game with a good story, that required you to do more than gain levels and descend into a dungeon.

 

Ultima IV completely changed the whole genre. You couldn't win by gaining levels or killing beasts. You had to actually role-play. You were given a world where it didn't matter which dungeon you went to first. Your starting city was based upon moral questions you answered at the beginning of the game, to which there were no wrong answers.

 

You mastered 8 different virtues, and the knowledge of how they were interconnected.

 

If you really want to try and compare Champions of Krynn to a game like Ultima IV, go ahead. However, Ultima IV stands as a title nearly universally hailed as one of the greatest RPGs of all time. No one really speaks of Gold Box titles anymore.

[metadigital]

And components for spells. Digging up mandrake in the dual eclipse dead of night in the middle of the darkest frest ... genius!

[EnderAndrew]

Ultima VII was the first game where I felt like I was really inhabiting a virtual world.

 

I just just open some bags of flour, get some water from the well, mix up some dough, and watch bread bake in the oven to pass the time.

 

Then I could follow NPCs around as they went about town doing their business. I loved how you could follow around the Mayor of Britain and catch him in an affair.

 

I loved in Ultima V where you found a room in a dungeon populated by starving kids that had been kidnapped. They became feral and hungry, and would attack you. To progress, you had to deal with feral and violent kids, who were innocent none the less.

 

The media ripped Garriot for forcing the player to kill kids. His response was that you could have chose not to finish the game, or you could have used a sleep spell to bypass the kids without killing them. Ultimately that particular reported had chose to kill the kids.

 

Garriot put choices like that in games far before anyone else put anytype of "role-play" in RPGs.

[XboxSithLord]

Yes. i WOULD also LOVE a MMORPG. I havent seen nor enjoyed a good one for the Xbox. It needs to be like World of Warcraft. Where the planet s so huge and you can wonder around. And the best people can be either Sith Lords or part of the Jedi Councils.

 

 

That means that the game wont ever stop being fun. So that means we wont keep saying" I wish there was a kotor4 "

[6 Foot Invisible Rabbit]

There is a Star Wars online game. Play that.

 

Man, I hate MMORPGs. There are way to freaking many out right now. Its killing the market for good single player CRPGs.

[metadigital]

...

Then I could follow NPCs around as they went about town doing their business.  I loved how you could follow around the Mayor of Britain and catch him in an affair.

...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Did you get to observe the Mayor in flagrante delicto ?

 

I agree though, Garriot was a master craftsman. (Doesn't he own a bone fide castle in England somewhere, and every year on his birthday loads of geeks camp out in the grounds and role play?)

[metadigital]

There is a Star Wars online game.  Play that.

 

Man, I hate MMORPGs.  There are way to freaking many out right now.  Its killing the market for good single player CRPGs.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Seconded and carried.

[Darth Abomination]

There is a Star Wars online game.  Play that.

 

Man, I hate MMORPGs.  There are way to freaking many out right now.  Its killing the market for good single player CRPGs.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Finally something we can agree on!

[Calax]

huzzah for the bunny

[EnderAndrew]

...

Then I could follow NPCs around as they went about town doing their business.  I loved how you could follow around the Mayor of Britain and catch him in an affair.

...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Did you get to observe the Mayor in flagrante delicto ?

 

I agree though, Garriot was a master craftsman. (Doesn't he own a bone fide castle in England somewhere, and every year on his birthday loads of geeks camp out in the grounds and role play?)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You didn't see the action in question, but you catch them undressed in bed.

 

Garriot built a castle in Austin, Texas with secret passages, a dungeon, waterfall that leads to an inside pool, etc. He runs a haunted house out of it every year.

 

And I heard he's building a new one.

[metadigital]

That's the story! And does he hold parties in it every year? (Free on his birthday, or som'ink?)

[EnderAndrew]

That's the story! And does he hold parties in it every year? (Free on his birthday, or som'ink?)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

He may. I don't recall. I've seen some video of a local news team that toured the castle. I've always wanted to go. I guess he also has stables, and he and his buddies joust there.

 

Inside the castle he collects a lot of dark age antiques and torture equipment.

[metadigital]

I wanna castle.

[Chris122]

Whoever is not for making a KOTOR mmo/online is a idiot....The possbilites in a KOTOR mmo would be ENDLESS...Props to the original poster, if they did make a KOTOR mmo i would not be able to leave my computer...Why do people like these games that end in like 2 days? I dont understand dont u get super bored? I like to get a feeling of gratification in mmo's, i like to be in a online world where you can compete agianst other players..WoW just sucks arse..its for 2 year olds, and i hate the theme..I WANT a good star wars mmo...not swg; swg sucks arse, it was a incompleted from day 1 and always well be...SoE sucks..If bioware decides to make a KOTOR mmo my ultimate dream world will come true :D

[Gromnir]

Insider info has revealed that bio is doing a finding nemo mmorpg in partnership with disney/pixar. disney wanted to break into the mmorpg market but they wanted it to be something that family members could enjoy together... both young and old.

 

You will start game as any one of a dozen or so fishie species... with a dizzying number of customization options being possible. You will not be able to start game as a shark or whale and while there will be a combat aspect as part of game, there is a clear emphasis being placed on the development of social and problem skills as 'posed to combats.

 

Almost the entire game will be played in a massive underwater environment.

 

Truly a revolutionary mmorpg is just 'round the corner as this family oriented aquatic adventure is set to be developed by the new bio studio in austin texas.

 

No release date has even been suggested yet.

 

stay tuned for more fishy details as they becomes available.

 

HA! Good Fun!

Edited March 17, 2006 by Gromnir