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Darth Traya vs. Darth Sidious


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Well, Common sense goes with Sidious(sp?). Not becase he is male, but simply his midiclorien count is so freaking high. At 20,000, (3rd highest in history, if my mind serves me correctly) it really isn't a contest anymore, Traya has a fried, charred, and in most ways dead body, while Sidious isn't breaking a sweat. I mean, look at Luke, if it wasn't for his father he would have died rather quickly, and the Emperor was just toying with him there. So all things considered I belive that Sidious would win by a landslide. Besides, If Traya tried to catch him unawares with her lightsaber, Darth Varder would probobly be there to parry the blow.(RotJ) ;)

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Not becase he is male, but simply his midiclorien count is so freaking high. At 20,000, (3rd highest in history, if my mind serves me correctly)

 

Please tell me you didn't get this information from SuperShadow. Please tell me you got this from an authorised and factual source.

 

Though I did read a smidget in the novelization where Palpatine explaines to Anakin who Darth Plageius was and how he

manipulated midi-chlorians and such.

But that is all I was able to read about him because I was in a rush. However, it does sound strangly familiar with the situation that happened on Vjun. Is that where is was from or does Palpatine ever explain?

 

Oh, yeah, about who would win.

 

I hate to admit it, but I would have to go with Kreia. Flame me if you will but also keep in mind that she was once THE Jedi Historian, a Jedi Master, and knew all the secrets of Malachor V(and the leader of the Trayus Academy before being betrayed and exiled) before it was destroyed. She had a wealth of knowledge from the Jedi Order, and wealth of knowledge of the Sith Order. And she used both to her advantage. She was more Grey than anything. Palpatine never knew the Jedi ways, nor any of their secrets. Other than what was absent-mindedly passed to him by the Jedi he surrounded himself with. But even those as his advisors (mostly minor Jedi) knew few of their many secrets. He was completely of the Dark Side. Kreia, who struck the medium between Light and Dark, knew the strengths and weaknesses of both. She would, absolutely, have the upper hand in the case of Force knowledge and power. A midi-chlorian count - if the person is poorly trained, or has a lack of knowledge(experience) compared to his opponent - means very little. Keep that in mind.

 

From the view of lightsaber combat, she would still have the upper hand. She had the knowledge and power to fight with lightsabers in hand, and could still manipulate others, with the Force, in combat against and enemy. Though even she admits that the Jedi and Sith of the time were as children with toys compared to Tulak Hord. So she doesn't have his knowledge, but I think Palpatine does. So, form this view point, who knows? :-

"Learn to harness your anger and control your fear. Dominate your emotions! But do not let them overcome you; for they can surely cause you to fall to the dark side.

If you expect to win against a Sith then you need to fight like a Sith! If you do not, you will always be met with defeat."

-- Jedi Master Seraphis Dakari

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It seems to me, like the teaching of both the Jedi and the Sith have diminished over time...

 

 

And, Lets face it... If they were to fight, the fight WOULD be determined by who could fire the biggest force lightning :)

 

And since Kreai would have a much wider knowledge of the powers of the Sith...

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It seems to me, like the teaching of both the Jedi and the Sith have diminished over time...

 

 

And, Lets face it... If they were to fight, the fight WOULD be determined by who could fire the biggest force lightning  :geek:

 

And since Kreai would have a much wider knowledge of the powers of the Sith...

 

nothing like a womans touch, even if it is Kreias' >_< "eek" unless Palpy tries that infamous "hi, how're you doing :cool: nice dark clouds in the heavens tonight eh :luck: y'know i leave for the Death Star at 12 o'clock ;) (in 5mins) Would you mind terrible standing right here while i put on a light spectacle just for you o:) gorgeus BOOOOOOM :)

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Id have to say Sidious as Kreia wasnt really evil.

 

HOWEVER if they removed the self defeating trait of Kreia's (were she basically sacrafices herself for the exile), I actually think Kreia is alot smarter then Sidious.

 

Sidious is just to transparent a villan for my tastes.

 

Other then Jar Jar, Sidious is the one area I think Lucas failed horribly in regarding Star Wars. Hes a transparent evil thats just a poor reflection of far to many real life historic Villians.

 

Obviously its just the writing for the movies but hes just not that cunning a villian.

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It seems to me, like the teaching of both the Jedi and the Sith have diminished over time...

 

 

And, Lets face it... If they were to fight, the fight WOULD be determined by who could fire the biggest force lightning  :blink:

 

And since Kreai would have a much wider knowledge of the powers of the Sith...

Erm... Didn't Darth Sidious unleash a "Force Storm" utterly massive enough to decimate an entire starfleet in one of the Dark Empire comic books? :devil:

 

I'd have to give it to Darth Sidious. No matter how much knowledge "Darth Traya" may have gained throughout her life, no matter how many teachings and techniques she learned and studied in the Trayus Academy, I hardly think she could match Darth Sidious in raw power. Darth Sidious was portrayed as the ultimate Dark Lord of the Sith in terms of his complete mastery of the Dark Side of the Force, a "black hole" within the Force in his own right, possibly second only to Marka Ragnos himself (if not above even him), both in the context of the films and in the broader context of history according to the Expanded Universe. It made sense, too, I suppose, as that era was really the "highlight" of the overall saga's history to some degree -- particularly since that era's story was the one told by the films themselves -- and the most powerful and threatening adversaries in any broad-spanning story like Star Wars (Expanded Universe included here) would, of course, generally fit into the most major "point of interest" on the timeline.

 

Besides, it was said (or so I've heard) that Darth Sidious somehow gathered, collected, and learned from countless ancient holocrons and artifacts containing teachings and techniques of the Sith Order, so he wasn't necessarily less learned than any Sith Lord prior.

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Hmm... Traya ended up in a pit, so did Sidious.

Traya had her manipulated apprentice (the Exile), so did Sidious (Anakin).

Both had the "Force Hide Allignement" special Force Power :thumbsup:

Both had their 'super-glued barely holding themselves in one piece' apprentices (Sion and Vader).

Both wear big hoods which put their eyes into shadow.

According to both everything's gone exactly as they planned except for their deaths.

Nevermind how long both lived but they seem to be both the older people of their stories.

And there was this one thing in the trailer where 3 jedi masters come to arrest Palp... :D

 

Sidious always had both hands (w00t)

 

Must se Sid in action in SW3 and maybe I could judge by that.

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both in the context of the films and in the broader context of history according to the Expanded Universe.

 

I wouldn't put too much faith in that since Palpatine DIED in Return of the Jedi. George Lucas has made it clear that once he died, he was dead. That was the end of him and the Sith Order (Vader had already come back to the Light Side). So, according to Lucas, Palpatine never came back from the dead or had little clone factories of himself. That is just too ridiculous and takes every strand of meaning and purpose from the movies.

 

Must se Sid in action in SW3 and maybe I could judge by that.

 

You can't really judge my this means either. Kreia was a character in a video game while Sidious was an actual living, breathing, person one screen. And with the engine these games were built on, we never did truly see what she was really capable of...cause it wouldn't support it.

 

I guess it's a matter of preference. But then again, I do like Sidious more. I just operate under the fact that raw power doesn't mean squat unless you either have been more properly trained, have more experience, or have more knowledge than your opponent.

"Learn to harness your anger and control your fear. Dominate your emotions! But do not let them overcome you; for they can surely cause you to fall to the dark side.

If you expect to win against a Sith then you need to fight like a Sith! If you do not, you will always be met with defeat."

-- Jedi Master Seraphis Dakari

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Kreia was beaten at Malachor itself by the Exile and I must repeat myself but the Exile wasn't too bright so it was not cuz he outsmarted Kreia in any way.

Palp's overconfidence was his weakness (guess Luke was right :p ) cuz it was just like stabbing one from behind - donno if there ever was someone who beaten him in single combat (if it's Yoda in SW3 then don't tell me -> I'd rather find out for myself :lol: ).

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Who would win? I would say Sidious

 

Concidering the StarWars tendency of things being more powerful the older they are, and how the "ancient masters" always could beat any contemporary champions in their sleep, Kreia would win.

 

But then you would have to define "win". Win what? A straight fight? The one who has the most peons when they die win? Who was best at spinning complex webs of plans and manipulating others? Who would win a game of chess? :thumbsup:

 

They are a bit hard to compare though, since Sidious/Palpatine is very much a Sith Lord until his death, while Kreia by the time you meet her is a former Sith Lord (and former Jedi Master before that). So in terms of who was the most powerful Sith by the time they met their end, it would be Sidious since Kreia wasn't a Sith when she died. :)

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I wouldn't put too much faith in that since Palpatine DIED in Return of the Jedi. George Lucas has made it clear that once he died, he was dead. That was the end of him and the Sith Order (Vader had already come back to the Light Side). So, according to Lucas, Palpatine never came back from the dead or had little clone factories of himself. That is just too ridiculous and takes every strand of meaning and purpose from the movies.

What's your point? I never said Darth Sidious was immortal; I said he was extremely powerful. I don't see how you can say "Palpatine DIED" as though it's somehow proof that Kreia was undeniably above him. Kreia died, too, y'know.

 

Besides, it all depends on whether you're examining this in the context of the Expanded Universe or purely in the context of the films (in which case there wouldn't be much to compare to since Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic II: The Sith Lords obviously was not one of them). In the context of the Expanded Universe, I would say it's generally accepted that Emperor Palpatine managed to return from death thanks to his clone bodies, just as it's generally accepeted that Boba Fett managed to climb out of the Sarlaac Pit even though it was pretty clear that George Lucas' intention in throwing Boba Fett into the Sarlaac Pit in the first place was to kill off the character. Emperor Palpatine coming back from the dead certainly detracted from Anakin Skywalker's redemption and sacrifice to some degree, in my opinion, but it's still generally accepted as a part of the Expanded Universe's timeline nonetheless.

 

Anyway, I don't really see why I'm even debating that. Emperor Palpatine's death or return from death doesn't have much to do with the subject at hand...

 

I guess it's a matter of preference. But then again, I do like Sidious more. I just operate under the fact that raw power doesn't mean squat unless you either have been more properly trained, have more experience, or have more knowledge than your opponent.

Yeah, but, as I said, Darth Sidious was said to possess countless ancient holocrons and artifacts, and to have learned from them. It wasn't necessarily true that he had less experience or less proper training than Kreia.

 

I mean, heck, remember, Kreia was only a Sith Lord for more than a decade at the most. She learned much from the experience -- contributing to her eventual philosophy apart from both extremes (Jedi and Sith) -- and learned several clearly-devastating techniques from the Trayus Academy (at least harmful enough to slaughter three of the most powerful Jedi Masters of the time period all at once with a single blow), there's no doubt about that. Yet, at the same time, Darth Sidious had trained presumably all his life as a Dark Lord of the Sith.

 

In terms of raw power, striking more of a balance of neutrality (as Kreia did) wouldn't necessarily make one more powerful than if one had exclusively mastered an extreme (Light Side or Dark Side). That is to say, even if Kreia had actually mastered both extremes (Light Side and Dark Side) to some degree during the time she spent as a Jedi Master and as a Sith Lord, respectively (which I admit she most likely did), it wouldn't necessarily make her more powerful or more "properly trained" than someone who truly held more raw power in their being, but had only mastered one side of the Force. It might've made her more learned and experienced in philosophy and belief, but not necessarily in power and combat.

 

As a character, I think I prefer Kreia, but I still believe Darth Sidious was simply more powerful, even if at least slightly so.

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Okay, I guess I admit Palpatine might have been slightly more powerful, but only just. I still hold to my belief that if you have mastered both Light and Dark Side in your lifetime, then hold more knowledge (and powerful secrets) than any Jedi or Sith.

 

Look at it this way, the Jedi use the Force for knowledge and defense. The Sith are the exact opposite; using the Force for hatred and attack. If Palpatine were to use an ancient Sith tecnique on Kreia, she would immediately recognize it and have the Jedi knowledge and ability to deflect or reflect it. But she would also,

unlike poor Yoda

, have a few Sith tricks up her own sleeves and pounce right back on him. Palpatine, having only know the ways of the Dark Side and its philosphies, would not have the means to effectively shield himself against such attacks; being how his philosophy, as a Sith Lord, is only that of aggression and attack, not defense.

 

Okay, I'm rambling, but I understand where you're coming from. So let's agree to disagree.

 

PS:

 

I don't see how you can say "Palpatine DIED" as though it's somehow proof that Kreia was undeniably above him. Kreia died, too, y'know.

 

You took what I said completely out of context. But I don't want to get into that right now. :huh:

"Learn to harness your anger and control your fear. Dominate your emotions! But do not let them overcome you; for they can surely cause you to fall to the dark side.

If you expect to win against a Sith then you need to fight like a Sith! If you do not, you will always be met with defeat."

-- Jedi Master Seraphis Dakari

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