Can we truly judge Obsidian based solely on KOTOR2

[KOTORFanactic]

Right, now since completing the game, and reading peoples comments, I have found a some of them saying:

'I wish Bioware made this'

or

'You've lost a customer Obsidian'.

 

I find this rather melodramactic. I mean, they are juding Obsidian's ability on one game.

Admittedly, some things are truly not to my liking. The lack of quality NPC interaction, and a rather boring ending, but I'm not judging Obsidian entirely on KOTOR2 alone, yet others are, and I find this to be an injustice.

 

If you think about it, they have a high quality simply from people who work with them, such as Chris Avellone. The thing is, they are, and will develop more games in the future, so I'm reserving judgement on Obsidian until I see more of their products.

 

Also, can we truly judge Obisidan, or any game development house, based solely on the first game they make?

 

Okay rant over. Now let comment posting begin.

[Taran'atar]

Don't pay much attention to those comments. I've yet to see a game forum shortly after release without comments like those. There are whiners and drama queens in every group.

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

Right, now since completing the game, and reading peoples comments, I have found a some of them saying:

'I wish Bioware made this'

or

'You've lost a customer Obsidian'.

 

I find this rather melodramactic. I mean, they are juding Obsidian's ability on one game.

Admittedly, some things are truly not to my liking. The lack of quality NPC interaction, and a rather boring ending, but I'm not judging Obsidian entirely on KOTOR2 alone, yet others are, and I find this to be an injustice.

 

If you think about it, they have a high quality simply from people who work with them, such as Chris Avellone. The thing is, they are, and will develop more games in the future, so I'm reserving judgement on Obsidian until I see more of their products.

 

Also, can we truly judge Obisidan, or any game development house, based solely on the first game they make?

 

Okay rant over. Now let comment posting begin.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

There is a lot of truth in "your only as good as your last title"

 

But I'd never take a message board as a good indicator of anything.

[NeverwinterKnight]

i judge developers on each game they produce, but not whether "other" people like it or not, but if i enjoyed myself.

 

and since i enjoyed my experience with kotor2, then i will judge obsidian on it and expect all their future games to be as good, or better than my experience with kotor2.

[Aegis]

For the most part, I judge them based on KotOR and the previous Black Isle titles. Not entierly fair as not everyone are former BI employees, and all former BI employees are not working at Obsidian, but it's close enough for me. Given Fallout 1&2 and Planescape: Torment, I'd have quite a lot of faith in Obsidian even if they had managed to screw KotOR2 up badly.

[Darth Jebus]

Nevertheless, what people are saying here have alot of merit. Have you seen the online petition to restore K2's ending? Last I checked it was approaching 1000 signatures and it hasn't even been up that long.

 

But to answer your question, no, I don't think we can judge Obsidian by this game alone. Although, you can say this game fell short in a few places that was glaring. But, when you look at the time constraints and LA'a awful track record, I'm willing to give OE the benefit of the doubt.

[kirottu]

Also, can we truly judge Obisidan, or any game development house, based solely on the first game they make?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Should we also take account to what was left out the game? 12 month developement cycle? Bugs?

 

I know that I enjoy it. Kreia had some very interesting lines that made my ls jedi to think. She said something in the lines of: "When you

[CrashT]

The lack of quality NPC interaction...

 

I don't see how NPC interaction in KoTOR2 is any worse than it is in KoTOR? In fact I'd say you've got it the wrong way around. But then I guess it depends on your definition of interaction.

 

I haven't finished KoTOR2 yet (Just finishing up on a moon before I meet the last of the lost people *Spoiler Free Zone*) so I'll reserve judgement on the ending but the ending of KoTOR wasn't that great anyway, so it only needs to equal that. Regardless, KoTOR2 has been far more "Star Wars" already than KoTOR was in its entirity.

 

Maybe I'm just a fanboy, but I loved KoTOR, and for me KoTOR2 is (Beside a few bugs) a more than worthy successor. It's darker, it's funnier, it's got a number of more interesting characters, it's got interface and UI tweaks that improve the playing experience significantly, and it's story (What I've experienced of it) is superior.

 

I'd happily judge Obsidian on KoTOR2, and doing so I say I now can't wait for Neverwinter Nights 2, a game I was previously only mildly interested in.

[Rambutaan]

Hmmmm well if they stuff up the next KOTOR I'll be severely pissed off. KOTOR 2 has made me extra cautious about buying another Obsidian game and I'm going to probably borrow the game off a friend first before actually buying the game. Either Obsidian patches up KOTOR 2 and fixes a majority of the bugs or an improved quality sequel to KOTOR 2 would restore my faith in Obsidian. They did Fallout and Planescape Torment so well - why can't it be like the good ol' days?

[Laozi]

I think you really have to be consistantly horrible to make the gaming public weary of your name. People bought Bloodlines. Obsidian had a few "circumstances" that created alot of baggage. I for one will prbaly own NWN 2 the day it comes out, and I've been pretty critical of Kotor 2

[Icon]

When I first played through Planescape, there were several gamestopping bugs. In fact, at the Fortress of Regrets it was so choppy I was forced to wait to finish the game until a patch came out. It is like the good ol' days. But the graphics are better. Nostalgia is like that, the bad things get forgotten all to conveniently.

 

Aside from the graphics, only one thing has changed between then and now, the internet. Now everyone gets together and pools their complaints, making the minor problems each individual has seem Much worse, adding to the list of complaints like some insidious virus. Or an angry pitchfork and torch carrying mob.

 

All that aside, I've had one game crash on me in three playthroughs so far. I have no idea what bugs folks keep talking about. Judge Obsidian by Kotor 2? If I did that I'd have to build a pedestal to put them on, so I'll forego judgement for now.

[Volov]

After seeing the frequent posts from Bioware on their forums, I

[Longjocks]

Call me crazy, but hands up who thinks the first KotOR would have been as good as it was if BioWare had the same amount of time on it as Obsidian did KotOR2? Sure BioWare also had to include engine development time, but they were working on the entire project as a whole for that period. The biggest problem I see is that the script/dialogue reads as a first or second draft and the whole game feels like it's slapped together with what was already done by the due date. Obsidian were obviously on the right track and I feel LucasArts have a big hand in this.

[213374U]

I think you really have to be consistantly horrible to make the gaming public weary of your name. People bought Bloodlines.

Spot on.

 

And yep, I'm definitely going to judge OE based on K2. But then again, I liked the game, so I don't think that's what you were getting on to.

[Rambutaan]

Call me crazy, but hands up who thinks the first KotOR would have been as good as it was if BioWare had the same amount of time on it as Obsidian did KotOR2? Sure BioWare also had to include engine development time, but they were working on the entire project as a whole for that period. The biggest problem I see is that the script/dialogue reads as a first or second draft and the whole game feels like it's slapped together with what was already done by the due date. Obsidian were obviously on the right track and I feel LucasArts have a big hand in this.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

That's what I'm *hoping* was the case (since given enough time, KOTOR 3 could be one of the best RPGs ever) - although if it wasn't, then I think Obsidian made a very bad design decision in rushing the end-game.

[Belhawk]

i also enjoyed KotOR 2 very much and i will buy NWN 2 when iti comes out in 2006.

the ending was okay, but left too many questions:goto vs remote, ebon hawk destroyed and resurrected?, y no cutscene ending. i liked that kreia told what happened to the other party members in the future, but would of liked a better cut scene at the end.

I would also like to get more than 1 chance to learn vivas sight power.

I don't mind some open questions that hint at a KoTOR 3, like what Mandalore is really up to late in the game.

I also wish there was an influence bar like the light/dark side bar.

[BobaShek]

Also, can we truly judge Obisidan, or any game development house, based solely on the first game they make?

 

Can we? Well, we must if we are going to say anything about them at all, since they haven't made any other games. That should go without saying.

[Sarkus]

If some people feel that KOTOR 2 was so bad that they will never buy another Obsidian product, then that's their choice. I don't know what they think they are going to buy instead, given the few RPG choices we have now, but that's still their choice. Personally, I got enough enjoyment out of KOTOR 2 that I feel I got my $50 worth. So, I'm not going to hesitate in picking up another Obsidian product.

 

What really suprises me is that LucasArts would make such a poor decision, late in the process, to push the game out early. How could they not be concerned about damaging a potential franchise? It's all the more confusing because the interview in the latest Game Informer magazine with the guy that now runs LucasArts is full of really positive ideas and philosophies on his part. Things like not over-exposing the Star Wars brand with too many quickly produced games. That seems contrary to the idea that LucasArts changed the schedule on Obsidian.

 

It makes me wonder if we really know the whole story on what happened that lead to the truncated ending to Kotor 2.

[Rambutaan]

If some people feel that KOTOR 2 was so bad that they will never buy another Obsidian product, then that's their choice.  I don't know what they think they are going to buy instead, given the few RPG choices we have now, but that's still their choice.  Personally, I got enough enjoyment out of KOTOR 2 that I feel I got my $50 worth.  So, I'm not going to hesitate in picking up another Obsidian product.

 

What really suprises me is that LucasArts would make such a poor decision, late in the process, to push the game out early.  How could they not be concerned about damaging a potential franchise?  It's all the more confusing because the interview in the latest Game Informer magazine with the guy that now runs LucasArts is full of really positive ideas and philosophies on his part.  Things like not over-exposing the Star Wars brand with too many quickly produced games.  That seems contrary to the idea that LucasArts changed the schedule on Obsidian.

 

It makes me wonder if we really know the whole story on what happened that lead to the truncated ending to Kotor 2.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Indeed, considering they are so concerned about the "quality" of the Star Wars franchise (obviously a huge percentage of LucasArts games is set in the Star Wars universe) you'd think they would have given Obsidian more time!

[Naso]

The game is very buggy, and there was potential for so much more with some more time, but as skeptical as I was about all of the "blame LA, not Obsidian" stuff, which was a load of hogwash for some of the previous titles, (JA anyone?), this one really shows that it's true. What is good in this game is so good that I really have to trust that if Obsidian gets better deals from publishers, we'll see some truly excellent stuff coming from them. I'm frustrated as hell with some of the bugs, and a little sad that there's missed potential, but I'm still really glad I got the game and now actually excited for NWN2, despite the fact that the stories in the previous ones weren't so hot. In K2, the planets felt a lot less generic in terms of quests and things, and so I think that they'll probably continue to make much more engrossing stuff than Bioware, which seems to just crank out hub-and-spokes style dungeon-crawls, at least judging from NWN and KotOR (to a lesser extent).

[Solan]

KOTOR 2 is a very good game, I was ver happy that I played in it, of course there is some disadvanteges (ending and cut off quests), but I see that guys from Obsidian tried to do everything what they can to make a wonderful game in only 12 months. If I have someone to blame I will blame LucasArts, da studits 'umies in da damn world it is they fault that KOTOR 2 is only very good, not the best. 6 months more and there will be The Game not a game. But why I say this? It won't change anything... Shame... Ah and I doubt that Bioware would make such a game in such a time as did guys from Obsidian.

[Tel Aviv]

I dislike how so many fixate on the few short comings. TSL was a consistantly entertaining and involving game, more so than the original. Yes, it had a flawed ending, but this was a flawed ending to a thrilling game.

 

I look forward to all Obsidians future projects.

[Volourn]

Of course I'm gonna judge them solely on KOTOR2. Afterall, I cna't really judge them on their 'other' games can I?

 

R00fles!

[Euripides]

Right, now since completing the game, and reading peoples comments, I have found a some of them saying:

'I wish Bioware made this'

or

'You've lost a customer Obsidian'.

 

I find this rather melodramactic. I mean, they are juding Obsidian's ability on one game.

Admittedly, some things are truly not to my liking. The lack of quality NPC interaction, and a rather boring ending, but I'm not judging Obsidian entirely on KOTOR2 alone, yet others are, and I find this to be an injustice.

 

If you think about it, they have a high quality simply from people who work with them, such as Chris Avellone. The thing is, they are, and will develop more games in the future, so I'm reserving judgement on Obsidian until I see more of their products.

 

Also, can we truly judge Obisidan, or any game development house, based solely on the first game they make?

 

 

 

 

YES WE CAN!. I Think that their 1st game was very ggod in comparison to the industry. So my feedback is positive. But this does not stop me from underlying points which would make a memorable dream game. It is the fact of unexploited potential that hurts me.

 

Okay rant over. Now let comment posting begin.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[Xacharia]

Well, I of course respect Obsidian, since some of their team are responcible for PS:T and Baldurs Gate. But its their first attepmt to do something since the dissolution if the Black Isle. Kind of a test to show everyone "We can still do it", and TSL doesn't quite show it IMO.