The posters on the official SW forums

[Matt7895]

Does anyone else find it extremely irritating when you go to starwars.com to find out the latest SW news, and see the forum stuff which has the most popular topics? Most of these topics are from people who have only seen one, or none, of the SW films, these people who aren't even proper fans, know nothing about SW and come up with the most stupid, foolish comments, and most of them are EU haters, even though the EU is Lucas endorsed, supported by all of his companies, and made CANON by the bearded millionaire himself! And that's not it, they actually think Episodes 1 and 2 are GOOD! All this crap about midichlorians etc, they think its proper Star Wars because Lucas wrote it.

 

Well here's the truth - the original trilogy = classic, and the reason why they were good is because Lucas wrote them not to get money, but primarily to live his dream. The prequels = rubbish, because Lucas made them primarily to get money for himself, spat on the fans and made rubbish storylines - including the young, goody-two-shoes Anakin Skywalker with cringing dialogue, some stupid frog-faced people invading Naboo with their toy droids. Also Eps 1 and 2 were directed by Lucas himself, who clearly has no idea how to show emotion on camera - take the 'sand gets everywhere' scene for example, and compare it to the sheer bliss and superbness of the scene in ESB when Han is put in carbonite, or when Vader dies at the end of ROTJ - when I saw those scenes, I had tears coming out of my eyes, out of real sadness. When I watched that scene in Ep 2, I had tears coming out of my eyes out of frustration and sheer rage.

 

So go to the official forums and make a post about anything EU, and watch them pounce on it like hungry hyenas, tearing your opinions to shreds. Hundreds of people have written such excellent stuff for the EU - in books, comics, video games, and roleplaying games. Compare their writing genius to the poor writing of Episodes 1 and 2 and I think its clear who our winner is.

[Azure79]

I wouldn't exactly call the EU novels brilliant, though I like the comics.

 

I'm attracted to colorful things!

 

I personally liked episode one. I think the main reason was because after the movie I was so hyped up by how great Ray Park pulled off those fighting moves that me and a buddy began lightly throwing punches at each other which quickly escalated into me kicking his face and him doubling me over with a nice punch.

 

Good times.

 

Yeah, but episode 2 was pretty bad. Especially the dialog.

 

Here's to Episode 3!

[Kalfear]

Does anyone else find it extremely irritating when you go to starwars.com to find out the latest SW news, and see the forum stuff which has the most popular topics? Most of these topics are from people who have only seen one, or none, of the SW films, these people who aren't even proper fans,

 

Stopped reading right there!

 

What is a PROPER FAN?

 

I didnt even know such a term existed!

 

Why cant someone who has only seen one movie be a fan of what they saw?

 

Im a Dickens fan but admit I havent read every book/article/essay written by him.

 

Im a LotR fan because of the movies but am unable to read the series because of Tolkiens writting style!

 

Does that mean im NOT really a fan of LotR and Dickens????

 

I will say this though. I have hit those forums before and its the concieted and arrogent people (like yourself) that need to take a breath and step out in the real world that annoyed me. Star Wars (like Trek, like Rocky Horror Picture Show, like any fad) is just a series of movies or books or games. nothing more! They are enjoyable and fun. ANYONE who likes any of those things (movie, movies, all the movies, books, games) can rightfully claim to be a fan! You might not agree with them but that doesnt make them any less a fan!

[Cona05]

i dont know about you but episodes 1 and 2 are better than a new hope, which is quite boring.

[NeverwinterKnight]

which "official" forums are you referring to? the lucasarts forums dedicated to kotor2? or the ones that have a section for books, movie, etc.?

 

one is pretty good, the other is filled with prepubescent dorks.

[Kissamies]

EU has gotten really huge by now and therefore there is a lot of room for awfulness in it. If you ignore the worst bits and focus on the best parts, EU is brilliant, novels especially. There was a time when I liked EU much better than the movies, perhaps I still do, but I'm not so interested of all the prequel based stuff.

 

I tend to avoid the more general SW forums like a plague because those canononlykthxbibi people get to my nerves. They are always there yelling "OMG IT'S NOT CANON! IT NEVER HAPPENED!!1! END OF DISCUSSION!!one" Disagreeing with a theory or opinion based on logic or own preferences is one thing, being diametrically opposed to something just because it happens to be in EU is something else altogether. "It is like this in EU so it must be like something else in 'real' SW universe!" The mind boggles.

 

Oh, and I personally think that Ep 2 wasn't that bad. Lucas sucks at directing his actors, but it was pretty good otherwise. The quality of the whole series started going down at RotJ and AotC is where it starts to go up again. I hope that Episode 3 will follow that trend.

[Matt7895]

EU has gotten really huge by now and therefore there is a lot of room for awfulness in it. If you ignore the worst bits and focus on the best parts, EU is brilliant, novels especially. There was a time when I liked EU much better than the movies, perhaps I still do, but I'm not so interested of all the prequel based stuff.

 

I tend to avoid the more general SW forums like a plague because those canononlykthxbibi people get to my nerves. They are always there yelling "OMG IT'S NOT CANON! IT NEVER HAPPENED!!1! END OF DISCUSSION!!one" Disagreeing with a theory or opinion based on logic or own preferences is one thing, being diametrically opposed to something just because it happens to be in EU is something else altogether. "It is like this in EU so it must be like something else in 'real' SW universe!" The mind boggles.

 

Oh, and I personally think that Ep 2 wasn't that bad. Lucas sucks at directing his actors, but it was pretty good otherwise. The quality of the whole series started going down at RotJ and AotC is where it starts to go up again. I hope that Episode 3 will follow that trend.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Thankyou! Someone who understands what I am trying to say!

[Darth Abomination]

Does anyone else find it extremely irritating when you go to starwars.com to find out the latest SW news, and see the forum stuff which has the most popular topics? Most of these topics are from people who have only seen one, or none, of the SW films, these people who aren't even proper fans,

 

Im a LotR fan because of the movies but am unable to read the series because of Tolkiens writting style!

 

 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

The movies were horrible, anyone with half a brain or any appreciation for the books would do what I did and decorate the movie screen with my Kool Aide spiked with Rum.

[Darth Abomination]

Here are the reasons I think Lord of the Rings sucked

 

1: Orlando Bloom can't act

 

2: Peter Jackson is not a good director, infact hes an Arrogant idiot

 

3: They SKIPPED OUT TOM BOMBADILL

 

4: Gimli's character was destroyed

 

5: They added another battle in Two Towers

 

6: There was no Scoring of the Shire

 

7: Merry and Pippin didn't drink the Ent Wash (very important in the book)

 

8: And they put way to much emphasis on the Romance between Aragorn and Arowen

 

9: Finally In the book Frodo was a great deal older then the other Hobbits

[theguy]

You could really use this.

[Darth Abomination]

lolz

[roflolocopter]

Tom bomb was a bit pointless and so not needed in the film, ent water is in extended DVD edition.

 

Loved the first two films, though some of the stuff they removed and changed in the second one didnt make sense, just seemed to be 'Hollywood' which there was no need to do, the films were goign to be massive whatever.

 

Third LOTOR film sucked in many ways, was ok but not a patch on the book and just fealt rushed and cheesy, the battles wernt even as interesting as the ones in the previous films, certainly not as cool as the Mines of Moria fight in Fellowship.

[Darth Dan]

Lighten up! just because someone likes the film does not make them brainless! I fully appreaciate the books, and perfer them to the films. Please have more tolerance of someone with differant opinions than you.

 

Cheers

 

Dan

[Euripides]

For me the EP 2 was great. I found a ingenious potical alegory in its story. Closely resembling the way Bush Administration used the idea of an external treat so that after september 11 they curtailed civil liberties for the sake of security.

 

In EP2 the enemy of the republic is actually supported by Palpatine to become a treat so that he can justify a war and trun the republic into a military regime.

 

Same with Bin Landen. US funded him to create commossion to the former USSR interest at Afganistan and when he became powerfull and turned against his benefactor, they ask for more power and less freedom to ensure security.

 

THat is way i like EP2. A perfect analogy

[Muad'Dib]

Darth Abomination, I have to disagree with you about the LotR movies not being any good, I loved he movies and the book. Both had their own strengths and weaknesses.

 

1) Very true, but Legolas was hardly a character with much depth to begin with.

 

2) I disagree

 

3) Glad they did.

 

4) Don't know what you mean, his character was reduced from the book if that's what you were talking about.

 

5) I liked the changes in TT movie, especially the elves at Helm's Deep the book made elves seem like pansies running away.

 

6) Thank God, worse chapter in the book for me, absolutely hated it.

 

7) They did in the extended edition.

 

I liked that, Arwen barely apeared in the books to begin with.

 

9) Very true, also Frodo took about 70 years before leaving the Shire for Bree with the whole selling Bag End and moving subplot, but I don't think it was critical to the story.

 

All in all I was very pleased with the movies, and I have much appreciation for them as that as much as the book for what it provided.

 

As for the actual topic, well the EU isn't exactly a topic all SW fans agree on. Personally I don't like the vast majority of it including but not limited to:

 

1) Villains are cloned way too much; Palpatine, Luuke, Joruus C'Baoth (SP?) to name a few.

 

2) Boba Fett's resurrection.

 

3) Anything NJO

 

4) Treating the Force as if it is something that can be taken away from, injected into or transferred to people. (I don't mind these things in games since I don't consider them more than that).

 

5) Repulsor lifts moving planets

 

That's just some stuff I dislike, I do however like some things in the EU:

 

1) Heir to the Empire

 

2) Shadows of the Empire

 

3) Mara Jade

 

4) Solo children

 

5) Tales of the Jedi (Mostly)

 

The EU is an acquired taste, especially since so many authors with so many different styles and general ideas constantly shift where the EU is taken. There is some very creative stuff within the EU and even the worst book or comic has something good in it just like even the best one has something bad. But I hardly think that disliking the EU makes anyone less of a SW fan.

 

As for the prequels, like the EU they have their good stuff and bad stuff. Generally I've liked the prequels, Ep2 was definately an improvement over Ep1 (Excluding Duel of the Fates which was far above the Dooku duel) and can't wait for Ep3. But even the OT has plenty of holes in subplots and character development, contradictions, and Ewoks. As you might have guessed I'm not a RotJ fan, I like somethings about it but as a movie (And more importantly the final chapter of SW) it leaves me vastly disappointed.

 

It's all a matter of taste really. Sorry for the long post.

[anakins revenge]

i didnt like episode 2 all that well. it seems GL fails to realize that his fans arent mostly 7 yr olds who think a pissed off anakin calling some one a creep is scary. The DIALOGUE SUCKED i mean who the hell talks about sand? unless ur really bored i guess and also i got extremely ticked when anakin shouts "aim above the fuel cells" and obi wan yells like an idiot "good call my YOUNG PADAWAN" the dudes like 18 now wtf. the love scene....not the best. Personally i think GL(im not sure if he has or not) should bring back the director who did episode 5 and 6. Because he let em have some freedom with words. like hell. But why cant GL let some comedy in thats actually funny, not stupid like jar jar anyway im lookin forward to episode 3, i think gl learned from his mistakes and looks pretty good. at least the actors kno whut theyre doing now

[Kissamies]

Not really arguing, just adding my own comments because I liked your post.

As for the actual topic, well the EU isn't exactly a topic all SW fans agree on. Personally I don't like the vast majority of it including but not limited to:

 

1) Villains are cloned way too much; Palpatine, Luuke, Joruus C'Baoth (SP?) to name a few.

2) Boba Fett's resurrection.

3) Anything NJO

4) Treating the Force as if it is something that can be taken away from, injected into or transferred to people. (I don't mind these things in games since I don't consider them more than that).

5) Repulsor lifts moving planets

1) Wasn't so excessive in Zahn's books, but when Veitch brought on the Emperor clones it got out of hand. He's probably my least favorite EU author anyways. He has the questionable honor of inventing the Empire's silliest superweapon. I half expected those things to turn into giant humanoid robots.

 

2) Well, I think he's too liked to stay dead, especially when he died in such undignified manner. GL himself mentioned that he considered making him crawl out of the pit in the special edition, but realised it was unnecessary since people don't believe him dead anyways. Some of the EU stories made him suck, while others portrayed him wonderfully. That's EU for you.

 

3) I liked NJO, mostly. It was different than the countless "Here's a new, horrible threat to the galaxy, but our heroes will defeat it without taking a scratch." stories that were so common before it. Of course, it did get way too bloated and therefore had some boring stuff in it, but I liked the story overall very much. Had some nice fantacy authors in it.

 

4) Yes and no, mostly yes. Depends on how it's handled, case by case basis.

 

5) Well, that's not so much of a stretch from the scale of engineering that spawned Death Stars, but the recurring superweapon theme that plagued early EU especially did get boring. Perhaps it was RPG's fault. It instructed GMs to never blow up a city if you can blow up a planet. Early EU seemed to be built around the d6 RPG and that's one reason for me really liking the early books especially.

 

That's just some stuff I dislike, I do however like some things in the EU:

1) Heir to the Empire

2) Shadows of the Empire

3) Mara Jade

4) Solo children

5) Tales of the Jedi (Mostly)

1,3) Yeah, the "professionalist" attitude of some of the Zahn's characters sometimes gets to my nerves, but his stuff is right there at the top of EU nevertheless. Lots of people like Mara Jade, me included.

 

2) Yes, my favorite EU book for a long time. Got to say that as a finn, the pharse "ter

[Muad'Dib]

Thanks Kissamies, I'm glad you really like the EU, especially that you found something worthy where I couldn't like the NJO.

 

I know that Boba is a character that's well liked so he was resurrected, but I don't like the character that much though as I find him excessively overrated, I find strange Lucas would say that though unless he had some radical change of heart, maybe that was in Empire of Dreams which I haven't watched yet. I always saw Boba the same way he did, a simple means to an end, he's the bounty hunter that brings Han to Jabba, nothing more. Jango however had much more interesting role than Boba had in all 3 movies combined, at least imo.

 

The NJO I didn't like because of what some people precisely really liked, the Vong. I dislike them completely as a concept, from being "outside" of the Force or rather on another level of it, to their saber resistant abilities to their seemingly unstoppableness (Is that even a word?), the whole Vong being so powerful then 11th hour miracle defeating them was a little too much Ewok vs Imperials for me again, I just don't buy it.

 

On the duels I didn't specifically mean about tecnique or the style, obviously Ray Park is a top notch martial artist and his agressive display of Maul was very energetic where Christopher Lee is supposed to be a more graceful duelist, that wasn't the problem for me. The only real problem I had with the Ep2 duels was that they were way too short. Obi-Wan's confrontation with Dooku was a joke, he fell about as fast as I beat Nihilus, Anakin lasted just a little longer but half that was wasted in a closeup of Dooku and Anakin's faces, then of course Yoda who was the better of the 3 duels, but they were just too short and barely enough to get me into them unlike the duel in Ep1 or Luke's confrontation with Vader in ESB.

 

Shadows of the Empire was great though, the whole Vader/Luke/Xizor looking at the skies scene was very profound. The only gripe I had against the book was they underused Dash, especially since Shadows was supposed to be his story. Everything else about it was great.

 

Zahn was really good with the original Thrawn, very well made villain.

 

Poor KJA, I hope he does better Dune than SW, it'd be a shame if he doesn't do justice to both series that I love.

[Kissamies]

GL and Boba: I think it was on the RotJ commentary track where he said something to the effect of that he would have used Boba Fett more if he had known how popular he would become and that people like him because he's mysterious. Sounds pretty sensible to me. In fact, The best EU stories about Boba tend to keep him that way.

 

NJO: I agree that the Vonglife being completely outside the force was pretty stupid. It was later suggested that they are simply on a "wavelength" that is boyond the "visual range" for most Jedi and I chose to believe that because it made much more sense. I also agree that the resolution came too quickly and easily after Vong ruthlessly blitzkrieging through the galaxy for most of the series. That's especially where the bloatedness works against the series. The Vong steamrolling the galaxy part could have been told with less books. They did drop some hints of Vong having spread themselves too thin and the final resolution had more of a sense of philosphical victory so I can buy it.

[CrashT]

Did the people who are complaing about the Yuuzhan Vong read the last book of the NJO?

 

The Yuuzhan Vong aren't outside the force so much as they have been cut-off from it, in a similar matter to what appears to have happened with the Rakath (Sp?) [The creators of the Star Forge] in KoTOR. Overall I enjoyed the NJO books, but their main failing was the fact they seemed to go out of their way to show what was happening with every other planet ever mentioned in the EU. There was no real need to got to Bakura or Centerpoint or a half dozen of the other locations that were reused.

 

In the end the NJO sufferes with the same problems as the rest of the EU, simply put some of the authors are not as good as the rest.

 

Personal favourite Star Wars material is anything concerning Mara Jade or Corran Horn. "I, Jedi" is easily the best Star Wars book for me.

[Hacane]

THeres a lot in the EU thats pure crap. Lucas him self can edit bits of it whenever he wants, for instance boba fett wasnt a clone in one of the EU books apparently.

 

The only things cannon id say would be episodes 1-6 as these are basically lucas's vission. And seeing as episodes 1 and 2 were pretty crap id just stick to the the origional trilogy and some very selective parts of epI-III when it comes to making games set in the time of the empire.

[Muad'Dib]

GL and Boba: I think it was on the RotJ commentary track where he said something to the effect of that he would have used Boba Fett more if he had known how popular he would become and that people like him because he's mysterious. Sounds pretty sensible to me. In fact, The best EU stories about Boba tend to keep him that way.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Oh I remember what you mean now, what Lucas says about Boba on the track is that had he known how popular Boba was going to be he would have given him a better death, not that he would have resurrected him. He would have just killed him more spectacularly than simply being knocked into the Sarlacc by clumsy Han, frankly I laugh every time I see that.

 

CrashT yeah I know Unifying Force which is why when I mentioned the Vong I said they are either outside of the Force or on another level of it. Regardless I don't like their concept and the other reasons I mentioned, just not my taste. I'm glad you liked it though, not trying to ruin it for you, just saying why I didn't find that series appealing.

[NeverwinterKnight]

apparently the reason they went with the yuuzhan vong is because george lucas said he didnt want the antagonist to be sith or dark jedi, and thus they figured theyd try something new this way to give the jedi something extremely difficult to combat.

[Kissamies]

Indeed, the Sith officially die at Endor (Exar Kun is exception for that rule, but he's a spirit so he doesn't really count) so they couldn't be used and darksider enemies were done to death anyways. Had to come up a new type of enemy that could match Jedi. I believe that the lightsaber and Force resistance were put in just for means to that end.

[Ulicus]

Indeed, the Sith officially die at Endor (Exar Kun is exception for that rule, but he's a spirit so he doesn't really count) so they couldn't be used and darksider enemies were done to death anyways. Had to come up a new type of enemy that could match Jedi. I believe that the lightsaber and Force resistance were put in just for means to that end.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Well and you get the cloned Emperor(s). Man that sucked... completely trivalised Vader's sacrifice and makes the "Ancient Balance to the Force prophesy" one of those "Buffy the Vampire Slayer" type prophesies, where the criteria is fulifilled for a split second then everything goes back to how it was before.

 

I mean, obviously they didn't know about that prophesy then but... JEEEESUS, what a lame idea.

 

(Also, has everyone been paying attention to the rumours of the Star Wars TV show that's supposed to be set post-RotJ, with Mark Hamill with a recurring/guest role? That sounds like it's gonna poo all over the EU. Unless of course the rumours are all fake.)