Ending

[tennisibguy]

LucasArts is a business, interested in cash. If it can get away with making a large profit from an incomplete game because of a loyal fan base, then it won't ever change. The only solution is for people to stop buying LucasArts games until they realize why their sales are falling.

[DarkLordOnoga]

LucasArts is a business, interested in cash.  If it can get away with making a large profit from an incomplete game because of a loyal fan base, then it won't ever change.  The only solution is for people to stop buying LucasArts games until they realize why their sales are falling.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Yeah, let's boycott!! :D

[ampulator00]

I thnk I might have stated before that I wouldn't buy Lucasarts game for 1 year. I'll be spending money on other titles, such as NWN2.

[Forceoflight]

And if you want to play a game where you don't know, if it is bad, there's the possibility to rent it

Lucasarts and the Developer who will make the next game, should bring a better end for the next game, then maybe I would buy it after playing it.

It's a symbiosis:We need GOOD games and they need profit. We have enough other games to switch to, but a publisher who doesn't sale games, won't be in business very long.

[Matt7895]

LucasArts is a business, interested in cash.  If it can get away with making a large profit from an incomplete game because of a loyal fan base, then it won't ever change.  The only solution is for people to stop buying LucasArts games until they realize why their sales are falling.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I agree with you 100%, unfortunately I will continue to buy Lucasarts games, as long as they are Star Wars, because I really do love Star Wars and they of course own the license to it. I won't buy other games they make, eg Mercenaries of course, because they aren't Star Wars, and I strongly urge everyone not to get Republic Commando as it isn't really SW-like anyway, according to PC Gamer.

[SteveThaiBinh]

Kotor 3 will be better because the developers will be under more scrutiny from us. I don't think we challenged Obsidian or LucasArts enough because Kotor 1 was so good, it didn't seem necessary.

 

If fans stop caring, then nothing will be done. If the pressure is maintained, and the criticism is constructive, then even large companies are likely to respect that and make improvements.

 

It's hardly surprising that Obsidian or LucasArts haven't responded yet. These things take time. The key is to keep the pressure on.

[Lord Soviet]

Kotor 3 will be better because the developers will be under more scrutiny from us.  I don't think we challenged Obsidian or LucasArts enough because Kotor 1 was so good, it didn't seem necessary.

 

If fans stop caring, then nothing will be done.  If the pressure is maintained, and the criticism is constructive, then even large companies are likely to respect that and make improvements.

 

It's hardly surprising that Obsidian or LucasArts haven't responded yet.  These things take time.  The key is to keep the pressure on.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Firstly, why does everyone assume that Obsidian will not be developing KOTOR3? To me, Obsidian looks like the most natural developer for the sequel. Secondly, the reason why Obsidian was not subject to any scrutiny is because nobody expected that KOTOR2 will go so wrong so badly, not when one took into account Obsidian's RPG experience. And, let's face it, apparently the problems with KOTOR2 are largely due to LA setting unreasonable deadlines rather than to Obsidian's negligence - KOTOR2's storyline is brilliant and the game is great, but numerous glitches and bugs ruin the overall impression.

 

Besides, based on what exactly could the community criticise the game? The demo that was never released? The screenshots that told nothing about the game's content?

 

Thirdly, there will never be an apology from Obsidian, because, by apologising, they would implicitly acknowledge the problems with the game, thus leaving themselves wide open to allegations of negligence. In such a situation, they'd have two choies - either to blame themselves or blame the publisher. If they blame themselves, they would damage their own image with actual and potential customers. If they blame LucasArts, the Star Wars giant will grind them into dust and they will never get to work on KOTOR3 (which, let's face it, is a major potential source of profit). So, under the circumstances, staying tight-lipped is the lesser of two evils.

[SteveThaiBinh]

Kotor 3 will be better because the developers will be under more scrutiny from us.  I don't think we challenged Obsidian or LucasArts enough because Kotor 1 was so good, it didn't seem necessary.

 

If fans stop caring, then nothing will be done.  If the pressure is maintained, and the criticism is constructive, then even large companies are likely to respect that and make improvements.

 

It's hardly surprising that Obsidian or LucasArts haven't responded yet.  These things take time.  The key is to keep the pressure on.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Firstly, why does everyone assume that Obsidian will not be developing KOTOR3? To me, Obsidian looks like the most natural developer for the sequel. Secondly, the reason why Obsidian was not subject to any scrutiny is because nobody expected that KOTOR2 will go so wrong so badly, not when one took into account Obsidian's RPG experience. And, let's face it, apparently the problems with KOTOR2 are largely due to LA setting unreasonable deadlines rather than to Obsidian's negligence - KOTOR2's storyline is brilliant and the game is great, but numerous glitches and bugs ruin the overall impression.

 

Besides, based on what exactly could the community criticise the game? The demo that was never released? The screenshots that told nothing about the game's content?

 

Thirdly, there will never be an apology from Obsidian, because, by apologising, they would implicitly acknowledge the problems with the game, thus leaving themselves wide open to allegations of negligence. In such a situation, they'd have two choies - either to blame themselves or blame the publisher. If they blame themselves, they would damage their own image with actual and potential customers. If they blame LucasArts, the Star Wars giant will grind them into dust and they will never get to work on KOTOR3 (which, let's face it, is a major potential source of profit). So, under the circumstances, staying tight-lipped is the lesser of two evils.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I make no assumption that Obsidian will not develop Kotor 3. When I refer to the developers of Kotor 3, it might well be Obsidian. In fact, I hope it is. Kotor 2 was a very good game with significant strengths, but whose weakness deserve to be acknowledged and improved upon.

 

I don't know very much about how the game development process works, and how credit and blame should be shared between LucasArts and Obsidian. It does seem to me that anything good about the game gets credited to Obsidian, and the flaws are blamed on LucasArts, which may be fair, I just don't know.

 

Criticisms of the game are based on its own merits, by comparison to Kotor 1, and by comparison to the cut sequences that others on these forums have revealed. I think all of these are valid approaches. I didn't experience most of the bugs myself, so I'll leave that to one side. The story had some wonderful moments, but tailed off at the end and failed to bring a dramatic story to a satisfying conclusion. The cut sequences were emotional, dramatic and far more satisfying than the ambiguous and confusing finale we actually got. So why were they removed? I don't fault either LucasArts or Obsidian for failing to answer that yet, as these things take time, but in the end they should answer.

 

Aside from the ending, various other aspects of the game can legitimately be criticised, and one would hope that the developers of Kotor 3 (whoever that may be) will welcome such comments. Some of Kotor 2's strengths were clearly built on criticisms of Kotor 1's flaws.

 

I agree that an apology is unlikely, and also unnecessary. What I want is a response. Others on these forums have speculated about why certain aspects of the game are the way they are for good reason. Developers should enter into a dialogue with fans, and I believe in time they will. But it has to be LucasArts and Obsidian together, accepting collective responsibility.

[Matt7895]

Obsidian don't even have to apologise or acknowledge they made flaws/mistakes. All they have to do is release a patch, like Bioware did, that gets rid of the bugs and perhaps add extras (the ending, and the additional side quests maybe?). With less bugs, I'll be happy.

[Mark Havel]

These issue have to be mediatized. If so, it will certaintly pressure Lucas Arts more than hundreds of fans petitions. A way to solve this is to write/e-mail to your favorite magazine and gaming websites and asking them why they did not mention the ending and poor quality soundtrack issue (and obviously, to mention them).

[AngryTarsier]

done made my ranting to gamespot...

[Meshugger]

done made my ranting to gamespot...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Linky?

[Grandpa]

Say what you want but this lemming, along with most of you I'd wager, will be playing KOTOR 3 if for no other reason than to see the loose plot ends tied together.

[greylord]

I'll play KotoR 3 if it's made by Obsidian simply because I, like a majority of people that bought it, enjoyed it.

 

Edit in: To put it strangely enough, the only people I've found that are complaining about the endings oddly enough are on the internet. Most of them here. In fact that's the entire reason I returned here...I had heard people were actually complaining about the game in gross amounts and had to see just exactly what they were talking about. Most of the discussion I've heard was about the game design...imagine my surprise about the discussions about the ending...but then, this is a small little group that seems to make a LOT of noise.

 

I do think some odd things WILL be fixed via a patch. Now when that patch will come out....

 

that I don't know.

[Astatine]

Say what you want but this lemming, along with most of you I'd wager, will be playing KOTOR 3 if for no other reason than to see the loose plot ends tied together.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Hey, what's the betting they run out of time and cut the endings of half the plot threads?

 

Ahem.

 

An Obsidian-made KOTOR3 is something I'd jump at, though. *continued fanboyism*

[AngryTarsier]

oh I didn't start a thread there, I made an all so formal request from my email to theirs, very formal at that, to re-review their alcolades to KOTORII and take into consideration the plot and everything, I even suggested one of their workers to do it.. someone I know is obsessed with the story..

 

I think that how it should be done.. if we have to drag this "dirt" to the "light" of the media, it should be done via formal email and not in their forums...

[Hundred Companions]

greylord Posted Today, 11:06 AM

  I'll play KotoR 3 if it's made by Obsidian simply because I, like a majority of people that bought it, enjoyed it.

 

Edit in: To put it strangely enough, the only people I've found that are complaining about the endings oddly enough are on the internet. Most of them here. In fact that's the entire reason I returned here...I had heard people were actually complaining about the game in gross amounts and had to see just exactly what they were talking about. Most of the discussion I've heard was about the game design...imagine my surprise about the discussions about the ending...but then, this is a small little group that seems to make a LOT of noise.

 

I do think some odd things WILL be fixed via a patch. Now when that patch will come out....

 

that I don't know.

 

Too right. There's just too few of us around here.

[Czulu]

You are few but much more (like myself) are watching and drawing a conclusions.

[Tanuvein]

I'll play KotoR 3 if it's made by Obsidian simply because I, like a majority of people that bought it, enjoyed it.

 

Edit in:  To put it strangely enough, the only people I've found that are complaining about the endings oddly enough are on the internet.  Most of them here.  In fact that's the entire reason I returned here...I had heard people were actually complaining about the game in gross amounts and had to see just exactly what they were talking about.  Most of the discussion I've heard was about the game design...imagine my surprise about the discussions about the ending...but then, this is a small little group that seems to make a LOT of noise.

 

I do think some odd things WILL be fixed via a patch.  Now when that patch will come out....

 

that I don't know.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I feel the same way, but I'd still much prefer to have the cut content reinstated. After all, why wouldn't you want an extra droid dungeon added as well as more dialogue and an ending that screams Black Isle's style?

[DarthShad]

I could live without the droid planet. OE/LA could put it in KotOR3.

 

I only want the "real" ending. I doubt it, but it will hopefuly be incorporated in the newly annouced patch.

[tennisibguy]

Yeah I just want the ending too. I would be willing to live with bugs and crashes if they only gave the ending the game, the programmers, and the players deserved to have in the first place.

[greylord]

Yeah I just want the ending too.  I would be willing to live with bugs and crashes if they only gave the ending the game, the programmers, and the players deserved to have in the first place.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I have to say, I think the droid planet WOULD be fun. The ending was completely Black Isle...they typically have short brief endings IMO. A long ending is more of one like the hack and slash Diablo 2 (well movie wise at least) or some of the endings in a few of the console anime RPG types. I wouldn't mind a smoother running ending I have to admit. However those items would be at the bottom of my list.

 

I enjoyed the game tremendously, however, until I installed it on the only Nvidia machine I had, I had a heck of a time getting it to run on an Ati Machine, and when I did on the more updated one, I had bugs galore...on the Nvidia it runs just about perfectly.

 

Comparing my situation to what the some of the whiners here are complaining about, I'd say I have a HECK of alot more to complain about, and yet...strangely enough, I enjoyed the game enough to say, hell it was a great game!

 

For those who think it's so bad, I suggest they go try Pools of Radiance:Ruins of Myth Drannor from a few years back, try the original game...

 

Oh, at least it has a nice little ending with a more indepth movie...that should please those complainers here...afterall, after hearing them it seems that this is all they care about.

 

I enjoyed the game, the experience was a good one. Hence I'll defend it staunchly. I've seen buggier games, I've seen worse endings, and in my mind, the gameplay itself is FAR more important than how long or short or in depth an ending is.

 

For those who think that an ending (which isn't as bad as people make it out to be, though it could be smoother and more informative about what is occurring) is more important than the bug fixes...let me let you try playing not only on an Ati Card (a more recent one would be too nice to you as at least that runs the game, even if it has bugs) like a 7500 and see how much your assessment stays that way.

[Naso]

Oh, I completely agree about the bugs being the top priority, and it took me a while to get it working on my computer, even after downgrading the drivers to the 4.11's, but this is the spoiler part of the forum, so you should expect story stuff here, and most of the people who did make it through are probably lucky enough to get it working somewhat reliably and thus are mostly now concerned with the story. (Oh, and the main bit of the game was so good I'm glad I got it, just a lot of weird stuff and wtf moments in the end, I'd like to see a resolved, if possible.)

[Toreyn]

Oh, at least it has a nice little ending with a more indepth movie...that should please those complainers here...afterall, after hearing them it seems that this is all they care about.

 

I don't think people are asking for a "nice little ending" - its just the shock of this really excellent RPG suddenly falling off a cliff, story-wise, after the Jedi meeting on Dantooine. After that its just hack and slash, cheesy spliced-in "prophecy" from Kreia, and roll credits. We know there was more to the story, we know that Obsidian didn't intend to leave all those plot lines dangling, relationships unresolved, and absolutely core issues - the Force bond with Kreia, the impact of the influence system on the end game - unaddressed. Even the parts that *did* make it into the end game felt strangely truncated - what the hell happened with Mira? how did the droids resolve their little dispute, on which the "fate of the galaxy" was hanging? We got nothin' Even the boss fights were just bleh - Malak in KOTOR 1 was a real challenge, these guys were all just pushovers. Somebody forced the game out on the XBOX before it was done, to cash in on the holiday sales. All we're saying is hey, its on the PC now - for the sake of artistic integrity, for the sake of the fans, patch back in the rest of the story.

[greylord]

Oh, at least it has a nice little ending with a more indepth movie...that should please those complainers here...afterall, after hearing them it seems that this is all they care about.

 

I don't think people are asking for a "nice little ending" - its just the shock of this really excellent RPG suddenly falling off a cliff, story-wise, after the Jedi meeting on Dantooine. After that its just hack and slash, cheesy spliced-in "prophecy" from Kreia, and roll credits. We know there was more to the story, we know that Obsidian didn't intend to leave all those plot lines dangling, relationships unresolved, and absolutely core issues - the Force bond with Kreia, the impact of the influence system on the end game - unaddressed. Even the parts that *did* make it into the end game felt strangely truncated - what the hell happened with Mira? how did the droids resolve their little dispute, on which the "fate of the galaxy" was hanging? We got nothin' Even the boss fights were just bleh - Malak in KOTOR 1 was a real challenge, these guys were all just pushovers. Somebody forced the game out on the XBOX before it was done, to cash in on the holiday sales. All we're saying is hey, its on the PC now - for the sake of artistic integrity, for the sake of the fans, patch back in the rest of the story.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

So just accept that you enjoyed the story and got sucked into it enough to actually care. That's the sign of a good RPG, not a bad one like people are trying to make it out to be.

 

sarcasm on

 

As I said, if you want a POR:ROMD where storylines are all finished (what there are of them) and a nice little movie at the end, whilst ignoring the other things that most of us would rather have fixed that aren't the "forum elites" then that seems the perfect game for you. Afterall, you don't have to worry about all those hanging story lines eh?

 

sarcasm off

 

There are some things that would be nice to have...however, the exceptional crassness and arrogance of people on the forum stating a really good game is terrible because they think something should be handled differently is to me rather stupid and petty.

 

Perhaps none of them everplayed BG or BG:TOSC which has a LOT of loose ends in many ways, and in some ways seems to have just as rushed an ending depending on how you go through it.

 

Luckily they made a BG2 that showed a lot of the resolutions for certain characters. Of course the characters in BG1 weren't normally as deep as those in BG2 or KotoR2. BG1 DID have a nice little movie at the end of it however...though at the time it was released, it didn't make tons of sense if you really think about it...

 

The thing is, the ending isn't as bad as some of the people are making it out to be. In truth, the ending to POR:RoMD in my opinion is worse, even with the "more resolution" to it in some ways...in fact, there are a TON of endings that are worse than KotoR2. And yes, there are those that are better as well.

 

However, seeing some of the reactions, I'd imagine that some of these people never had gotten to the end of a game before, or at least haven't beaten many games...which is odd because I could swear many of them have played a lot of the games I know of when we all were back at the old Interplay and Black Isle boards.

 

And some of the endings they want back in...I swear, if they took these same attitudes towards star wars, they'd be demanding the idea of han dying in Return of the Jedi be put back in along with the film that was supposedly rumored to fool Hamill into thinking that Luke died in the film as well!

 

Yep, real emotional...guess that would have been one heck of a great ending to the Star Wars Saga with the two main male characters being killed off.

 

Some of the endings I think might be spectacular if put into the game...however, I'm not crying over spilled milk. The fact that so many are crying wolf at such a small thing in a great game...seems to me that these might be the same people that cried out about BG2 when it was first released...about if memory is correct, the exact same things almost.

 

How Deja Vu.

 

and then of course I was worried about bugs even then...I suppose things never change.